Flash Tizzle

If I’m Boras I’d immediately advise against that. Especially seeing how the market has trended negatively towards players receiving lucrative deals on the other end of 30. If Harper doesn’t justify the first 4-5 years, he’s potentially losing 100’s of millions of dollars. Negotiating the most guaranteed money should always be the goal if I’m an agent. As Stanton and Arod have shown, going to a winning ballclub is an objective which can be reached at a later date.

Machado has had the holidays now to think about where he’ll play. Plenty of time to decide, and I’m hoping we hear something definitive soon (as in next couple days). I almost sense Tulo is sort of a nudge, like hey - it’s time to decide because we’re not waiting around to fill out our roster. They couldn’t have waited another week or so after his decision?

I get that it’s annoying to see, but we can’t think that picture means a lot while also dismissing the impact of the Alonso and Machado connection. I believe it’s irrelevant; whoever pays both players the most will get them.

Why would telling people you will sign with the Yankees, in addition to following their television network, make that team want to fork over more money? It looks like their offer is already good enough! “Well he should be accepting our offer soon, but lets give him another 20 million anyway...” I’d be more willing to believe the White Sox are the front runners with New York and all of this inside information/Social media following about the Yankees is an attempt for us to match the offer. But even that I feel is unlikely, just slightly more realistic.

We’re defintely overthinking this. I’m more willing to believe it’s an innocent mistake (albeit fortelling of where he’ll go), then part of a masterful plan to use the most popular baseball team and their fanbase as pawns

I agree that it’s odd how national media pundits haven’t chimed in either supporting or denying the information. After Christmas everything died and this Ny- Machado information came forth to fill the information void. I don’t know what to make of it, but we either have to believe there’s a chance because of the lack of corroboration; or accept it as a real possibility the Sox will miss out. I wish I could be more enthusiastic, but White Sox history has prepared me for the “we presented a strong offer but fell short” response

No one could possibly have faith in them. They just haven’t earned it. Arenado, no. Bogaerts, no. I’d have to believe Verlander, Cole, and especially Sale will not be receiving record breaking deals with the White Sox. Especially as pitchers. Houston, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Philadelphia and the Rockies all have modest (under $80 mil) payroll obligations for 2020. That’s not including any of the high payroll teams that always are in the mix

If those players don’t take a big leap forward they’ve also lost their sales pitch. Who knows how effective it is to begin with, but you can’t say we’re on the verge of greatness with young talent, come play for us, if said talent doesn’t step up.

I’m not even upset that Williams and Hahn raised expectations this offseason, I’m more worried what direction this team will go if they fail to sign Machado or Harper. It honestly feels like this moment is the proverbial fork in the road — bring in the whales and it signifies the next chapter of the rebuild. Not that anyone believes that one move puts us over the top, but it’s a huge morale and financial boost nonetheless. It would be ideal for renewing interest among the casual fans which translates to added revenue. Thus, momemtun carries forward for 2020 Alternatively, missing out on either isn’t going to doom our franchise (unless Harper goes to the Cubs...); but the negative effects are felt amongst the fans as well. It is such a deflating feeling to go through another shoulder shurg, “well we tried” moment. Whatever the reason, whatever excuse is given for neither player signing Sox it won’t matter. If the alternatives listed within this thread are what we have to look forward to (ie, more mid level talent), I’d rather lose another 100 games sticking to the rebuild. What I feel is in the works if we miss out on Harper/Machado is a trade for someone elite, like Arenado. White Sox cannot possibly fool themselves into believing they have a shot for him on the open market after this offseason. However, is it unreasonable to believe the same team that uses Machado’s brother in law as a bargaining chip would acquire Arenado with the intention of signing him to a long term deal.....exclusively? Unfortunately, I envision something like Rodan/Abreu/Eloy being enough for a package revolving around Arenado/Rodgers/etc. Believe me, I’d rather do none of the above and merely overpay for him; but after this Alonso situation, it really has me worried. From the beginning, it just came off as extremely desperate. As if someone jokingly mentioned it during a phone call never expecting the White Sox to follow through. Now, with it sounding like Machado is looking elsewhere Hahn has to be feeling the animosity among fans. I can feel it just reading these boards. I don’t see how they could look fans in the face and try to sell them on Moustakas, Pollack as being the pieces of the plan. “We failed acquiring more desirable talent so these are the mercenaries who you’ll pay to make 2019 slightly more bearable than 2018. We promise 2020 will be different”

Then we all may as well accept we’re never going to land a top tier FA. Why go through the bidding process knowing we have to significantly outbid a more well known, well respected franchise? Either we’re going to have to draft our own Manny Machado, or trade for him on the back end of his career

Aren’t you just settling for mediocrity again? We shouldn’t be making roster choices with the thought of, well it’s not ideal; but it’s better than our current garbage. I’ll take the garbage, please. Either we are going to get this rebuild going right or they will just continue failing until Hahn is fired.

Isn’t that sad though, the thought that we never had a chance even with the available money? It won’t matter for Arenado, or any other top tier FA, either. We’re a tough sell unless this team is FAR outspending its competitors. If that’s the reality, we are in a lot of trouble unless this minor league system starts producing immediately. Eloy can’t wait 3-4 years, ontop of Moncada’s 3-4 years and Giolitto’s 3-4 years for everything to come together. This is the position we are faced with. The Alonso move, no matter the rationale, will always be associated with Machado. I’m more willing to accept Alonso as some bargaining chip than the possibility we traded for him as someone we envision being part of a championship team.

I’d react with annoyance. Does that put us into a position to win a championship, or barely break .500? I’d honestly rather lose another 100 games.

Yes, and the lack of success after 2005 shows how fortunate we were to have everything come together. It’s not a model that should ever have to be repeated again if we want to build a team capable of consistently winning (and reaching the playoffs)

I completely agree. We can all agree the purpose of this rebuild is to assemble a team capable of sustained success; ie - multiple playoff appearances at a minimum standard. That is not going to happen by collecting and mashing together mediocre roster pieces as we’ve tried from 2008 onwards When i think of “mired in mediocrity” I think of how we’ve started our offseason. Yes, I know they’re complimemtary pieces; but I also know I’ve seen this movie before. As we’ve seen the movie where we miss out on the top tier FAs. If we are going to continue entertaining the idea of a championship as the goal, and this rebuild is the key to reaching it, then we need the minor league system to step up dramatically if we’re not reeling in the whales

Again, chicken/egg scenario. How can we get good without help from QUALITY free agents?

Having that player who experiences immediate success would be such a jolt for the rebuild. We can’t expect a timeline for sustained success (which is the point of this whole rebuild) if Gio/Moncada don’t take immediate steps forward and Cease/Jiminez don’t immediately produce. At some point, it’ll all have to come together. Every promoted player can’t have a 3-4 year learning curve. Honestly, if we can’t get Harper or Machado, I’d rather just go through another 100+ loss season. That’ll be the only way we’ll get a player comparable to either of those two. Are we going to accept the pre 2017 method of roster construction with 1-2 year deals on second, third tier talent? If thats part of “the plan” then I’d rather lose and watch player development

They HAVE to hit with Eloy. None of this meddling, taking 3-4 to adjust to the league. If we cannot sign top tier FAs, and we wont trade for them (which is left to be see ), we will have no choice then to expect our system to start producing quality ML players.

Machado is the player who the fanbase will be more upset about. Not matter how anyone may spin Alonso’s signing to make sense outside of the Machado sweepstskes, fair or not, he will forever be associated with the deal. If we fail to sign Machado, Alonso better find that 2017 spark because otherwise he’s a living symbol of our failure. Also, I think whiffing on both just reaffirms our place in baseball. We’re not an ideal destination for top FAs, even when we do have the money available. It wont stop with Harper and Machado, either. There are always going to be teams with higher payrolls and more to offer (location, history etc) than the White Sox. It’s a disappointment no matter the reason.

Maybe, but if I’m the Dodgers that’s what I would be putting out there through my media sources to give the appearance of pursuing other options. If this trade guaranteed Harper he would have signed by now. There’s still posturing and negotiating left, and LA doesn’t want to appear like this is their only option.

5 posts in the last 4 years ? Who else can we call out of the darkness of lurking?!

Signing either player will be a huge step towards legitimizing our rebuild to the public. I agree with your chicken/egg scenario, especially when it comes to fan perception. I know must on these forums, the die-hard Sox fans, know Machado or Harper alone isn’t going to be that missing piece to a World Series. What it does most importantly is create buzz, increase revenue (whether through ticket sales or merchandise) and get the casual fans excited for the future. There WILL be more fans in seats. Is it unreasonable to expect a minimum, 10-15 game turnaround in the standings? And that will be considered a success! It can be spun as improvement, a step towards building a consistent playoff contender. We no longer can say, “can’t spend a dollar when you have 50 cents” because at this moment, we have the capability of signing either player. I compare this point in time to the rebuild before it began. Some were afraid the fans would further abandon the team, or that management would screw everything up and further delay our return to the playoffs. It was almost this complacency of, well - we haven’t done it before, so that means we probably won’t do it. No, we haven’t broken the piggy bank open in quite awhile; but maybe now we should. Of course the signing could fail and either player could be ineffective/injured; thus financially crippling us. But it’s worth trying to improve the team through means previously untouched, much like the rebuild. We have the resources to get it done, and in this division, an unexpected year from a few players may be enough to atleast have September baseball mean something again

Lol yeah I definitely have the same issue. Rarely post anymore but I’m always browsing on the forum. I’m glad many here are still active and contributing to the site’s success. Every day I’m browsing back 5-10 pages to catch up on all the wild twitter speculation concerning Machado and Harper. I know we’re all hoping for a quick answer (hopefully to pur benefit), but I’m betting a decision will be reached by both players after Christmas

Ah yes, the old chat room crew. It had all the raw anger and emotion of every game, pitch by pitch, that we couldnt say in a game day thread.

Pfft, rookie. ?