Flash Tizzle

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 07:55 AM) I think regardless of tonight's outcome the city is going to burn. I could forsee stupid frat boy type of shenanigans, but for the city to burn I'd say there needs to be an excruciating and controversial loss (something on terms with Bartman, a blown umpire call, or ridiculous 9th inning comeback by Cleveland). Even a win I'd expect less destruction

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 07:04 AM) Ask Steph, Klay and Draymond about those stats. Anyway, game 5? Check. Game 6? Check. The Cubs, when right, are one of the better teams of the last 40 years. I don't want it to happen. But they will get it done. And I predict meltdowns of GOAT proportions by what's left of White Sox nation. When you group together the season and post season yes, the Cubs are incredibly talented and compared to the Indians SHOULD win the series. But again, this all comes down to one game. Any outcome is possible when just looking at it as one game. If you're position is the Cubs may win because they're the better team, I'd agree. However I'm on the position the Indians have an advantage. The last 40 years comment is a bit ridiculous though when they've hardly dominated even the playoffs. Also the NL collectively is terrible.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 2, 2016 -> 12:41 AM) I told u guys the Cubs were a lock and to bet the house. Did anybody follow my good advice? Cubs will wrap it up. It's simple, folks. The Cubs DEFINITELY have the better team. Case closed. Tomorrow is one game, anything can happen. But consider that statistically, Indians have a huge advantage alone playing Game 7 at home

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Nov 1, 2016 -> 11:28 PM) I would agree with your thought process if I didn't have 35 years history contradicting it. The Sox have never felt they are in competition with the Cubs, have stated it publicly many time. JR (and for right or wrong you have to admire the strength of his convictions) has never been influenced by the Cubs, Sox fans, the media, agents...never has and never will be. Significant and needed change will come eventually, it has to since time marches on and we are all human. Mark I hope we're not just waiting for JR to hand over controlling interest/die before these changes come.......but I really wonder if that's what it would take if come 2017 nothing changes. If you do not rebuild with a GM acknowledging their mediocrity, a subpar team in a terrible FA market, with no immediate help available in the minors, AND several appealing SP trading chips to rebuild from, then they will never rebuild under JR.

If anything, I'd hope any potential Cubs World Series tears apart that last remaining doubt of Sox management about rebuilding. That lingering worry always thrown around of Sox fans not supporting the effort. No, I've never read or heard them verbally say they're reluctant to rebuild (other then the indirect evidence of JR wanting to "go for it.") but obviously they're not very supportive of the idea We need to just throw aside any doubt or worry. Stop thinking whether they successfully can rebuild or not, stop worrying about the remote possibility of the team relocating, and sure as hell not worry aboyt the Cubs. Just do what's best for the future of this TEAM. When you look at the alternatives, there are none that don't involve dumpster diving or hoping for a team wide resurgence. We've done this for many years. Why not try the ONE method we haven't tried? If it's 5 years from now and we're stuck with a terrible rebuilding process, reevaluate. Anyways, what would it matter if we purposely sucked for 5 years or (as we've done since 2012) tried to win but still sucked

QUOTE (iamshack @ Oct 28, 2016 -> 04:56 PM) Finally...Flash can finally shut up now I shut up years ago when we drafted our Liriano.......Chris Sale ?

Bmags, I'm around your age and joined this website shortly after you did, so while we've obviously matured since 2003, I'd agree there been a definite decline in White Sox culture. I recall the feeling among Sox fans on WSI and Soxtalk concerning the biased media attention towards the Cubs. Anyone remember Hangar18 on WSI counting articles and posting a daily commentary? There was a shared feeling of disrespect among Sox fans. "What have the Cubs done to deserve it?" Granted, we understood the attendance issue, but there was still the feeling Cub fans were unintelligent frat boys from Iowa while Sox fans were hillbillies who (when they did show up to a game) ran on the field. Even with the success of 2003 for the Cubs, the Bartman game and subsequent collapse in Game 7 actually served to heighten my enjoyment as a Sox fan. This is a key point. Our culture at the time was anti-Cubs as much as it was anything Sox related on the field. You touched on it earlier with the CORK t-shirts many Sox fans wore. Then, 2005 obviously changed everything. White Sox fans were treated to a World Series and were now atop the media landscape in Chicago. The disrespect, I felt, was gone. Who cared anyway how much coverage the Cubs received? Our team won a World Series! What followed is one of the greatest injustices of the post World Series years -- failing to sustain even moderate success. When the Sox disentegrated in 2007, Cubs made the playoffs......then were swept. Next season both teams made the playoffs.....Cubs were swept, Sox lost the series 3-1. If the White Sox had capitalized on the post 2008 playoff drought the Cubs had until 2015, it would have further defined our NEW identity -- winning. We'd have something else to define ourselves as other than the alternative to the Cubs. Flash forward to 2015, and it had been a terrible decade post WS title to say the least. A lot of unmemorable seasons thrown together with scrub players, bad management, and lack of direction. However, what I began to notice is that fans were collectively beginning to push-away the official narrative of the team. Rebuilding on the fly, patching together third tier players around the core wasn't going to work anymore. Yet.....there was still probably half this site feeling 2016 should be the year we "go for it" again. Meanwhile, through trades and the draft the Cubs had assembled a team capable of winning a World Series. Even though they fall short, they have a formidable team expertly constructed. Not a flash in the pan. Here's 2016, Cubs are meeting expectations while the White Sox predictably fall short. Fans however are now past a point of waiting and hoping. It's a overall feeling of negativity I've never witnessed. The rebuild sentiment among the fans, if I could judge from this site, is easily 75%+. What all this means to me is previously, our culture was identified in part anti-cubs, part southside grittiness. We were good but never good enough. We embodied this hard working, meat and potatoes type of blue collared fan base. Proud of our traditions.....yet also happy the Cubs havent won yet. After 2005, our culture of winning emerged. Not just competing. After failing for 10 of 11 years to reach the playoffs, this identity is lost. Our Cub hating identity is there, but lessened due to the fact these Cubs are damn good. We're a fanbase without an identity, a team without direction, in a city obsessed with the Cubs BEFORE 2015. Our culture, if it still exists, is decimated. However, I still have hope that one day we'll begin a new direction and start another chapter in our team's history.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 11:21 PM) I don't get how that makes any sense but ok. I don't know how I can further explain it. Kershaw pitching at home in Game 5 gave LA the best chance to win prior to coming to Chicago. That's it

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 11:05 PM) I'm not trying to be an ass but I actually would like to hear what you guys would have done for game 6 if Kershaw started tonight? You'd be good running Hill out there again on short rest? Maeda. It's not that he's better than Kershaw under any circumstance, I would have just preferred Kershaw at home Game 5, Maeda 6, Hill/Kershaw Game 7. He gave LA the best chance of entering Wrigley up in the series

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 11:02 PM) I can't blame you for blocking out how bad this season was, but no one is that dense. Oh I'm dense, but I can't forget the horrors of this season. It's more a feeling of disgust, these are the best teams the NL has?

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 10:54 PM) Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Wait...you're serious? Dodgers and Giants have looked terrible

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 10:35 PM) Awful performance Watching these NL games, I really wonder if the White Sox would win 90+. Dodgers are choking. Complete mental breakdown

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 09:47 PM) The Dodgers basically conceded this game by not starting Kershaw and running Ruiz out there in the cleanup spot. This is what several of us suggested earlier concerning Kershaw. You HAD to pitch Kershaw. If you lose, you lose with best and by then it'll all but be done anyway. If you win with him Dodgers are 3-2 going into Wrigley, which is obviously different than down 3-2 with Kershaw going on the road in an elimination game. Yes, even with Kershaw it may have still been the same score. I just feel it was a risk I wouldnt take

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 19, 2016 -> 10:02 PM) How can they not pitch Kershaw tomorrow? Maybe they'll change their minds. It's LA's only hope. It would be one of the all time postseason mistakes to not have Kershaw pitch tomorrow. Having him pitch at home, against Lester where perhaps 1 or 2 runs will make a difference, is essential for momentum and the greatest possibility of entering Game 6 up 3-2.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 17, 2016 -> 07:08 PM) Then they better f***ing nail every single player they bring back in any major trades, because if they're willing to accept less overall talent to try to make things happen faster they create much less of a cushion for a bust. Exactly, if we're just supposed to assume the White Sox are trying to shorten any rebuild then there's no room for error. Hell, there's already little room for error as it is knowing any potential Q or Sale trade NEEDS to be successful for this franchise to move forward.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 15, 2016 -> 10:48 PM) Fitting end...another line drive, another dumb Dodgers play Embarrassing watching these NL teams seemingly give AB's, runs, and frankly games away. Even if LA loses, the Dodgers absolutely need to extend the seties to 6 or 7 games. Disrupt their rotation and stop them from being so damn comfortable

QUOTE (shipps @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 08:23 AM) No surprise at all that the Giants grinded out a win last night. I expect a more comfortable Giant win tonight. Game five against Lester at Wrigley trying to get your third in a row from the Cubs? That's a tough one. Even if they lose Game 5 against Lester, they'll succeed in throwing off the rotation scheduling. Especially if it involves not having Lester and Hendricks being able to pitch Game 1 and 2, then potentially 6 and 7

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 09:22 PM) Everything is lining up perfectly. We need to take advantage. Exactly, and there should be no excuse otherwise. FA market is terrible, Q and/or Sale have tremendous value, and because it's the offseason everyone (whether they'll compete or not for 17') is potentially in play. I also believe they should act aggressively and not wait out late into the offseason to trade one/both. Every FA scrub taken off the market is another team seeking different options. Hahn and his team should start piecing together trade packages immediately. I believe we're all aware the importance of this offseason. A well crafted trade (or two) involving our starters can lay the groundwork for this team's success.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 09:06 PM) Sox get a second chance...we'll see what happens. Mark Sox won't get Cespedes until he's at the tail end of whichever contract he'll sign this winter

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Oct 6, 2016 -> 12:20 AM) In my heart, I badly want the Cubs to lose. But I can't openly cheer against them as I try to be above all that. So I won't be a dick to my Cubs fan friends and mock them or root for the Giants, but I would laugh manically inside if Samardzija torches them in Game 2. Cmon, let's not try to act too noble here saying you're "above all that" not to openly cheer against the Cubs. I'm not above all that in the least bit. I'll root for the Giants, and any opponent for the Cubs after that. Now, I say all that full well knowing it's out of jealousy that I'm passionately against the Cubs. I'm jealous of their roster, I'm jealous of their general manager, and sadly enough I'm envious that they'll be perennial contenders while the White Sox can't string together two straight playoff appearances. If the Cubs did win it all, I'll be annoyed but will move on to focus on our disaster of a ballclub. It's just much more fun watching them collapse under expectations. Also who doesn't love cameras recording Cubs fans in the stands crying?

QUOTE (zisk @ Oct 4, 2016 -> 09:43 AM) Sign alvarez or adam lind to DH. fulmer and burdi add to pitching staff. fulmer/shields 5th starter & long man spot starter. lawrie 2nd base til june 1st. then dfa or trade. saladino,leury,tilson and cheap vet fight it out in center. when june rolls around, reassess and add or trade everyone. We're shuffling around players to once again finish around .500. Why even bother going through all that? We can reasses now after this season that a rebuild is needed. Why waste anymore time? I don't think people realize Sale and Q are more valuable to this team as trade bait than bringing them a championship. We're not winning anytime soon, and this franchise should be blown apart if neither of those two are traded and (god forbid) they're injured or ineffective come midseason. We may tell each other we don't need to trade one or both, but we do

QUOTE (Dunt @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 03:38 PM) A big problem with rebuilding this offseason is that a lot of the best prospects in the game right now are in rebuilding organizations. You can sit there and hope the Red Sox will trade a package of Benintendi, Moncada, Devers, etc., but they don't need to trade for pitching. The Dodgers don't really need to either honestly. The good teams have insulated themselves so they don't have to overpay. I dont see a ton of guys out there right now that are going to come up and be no doubt offensive studs. Would you trade a guy like Q to the Pirates for a deal centered around Austin Meadows maybe? Do you really foresee the Yankees trading a bunch of the guys they just acquired for an ace? This looks like a really bad situation the Sox are in. Hope Jerry is ready to break open that piggy bank. Once again the world conspires against the White Sox right? Funny how that always happens. When the opportunity arrives for us to sell two quality SP....no one is willing to meet our demands, prospects are too highly regarded (ad if they're ever not), or as you suggest the best prospects are in rebuilding organizations. Basically, Boston and LA won't trade any of their premier talent because they don't need to; and the lesser teams won't because they're rebuilding. I'm not going to give Hahn a pass after the trade deadline debacle and neither should any of you should shrug your shoulders and say they're in a really bad situation. Too bad! Make it work Hahn. Whatever he needs to do to trade Q and or Sale for a haul of players to rebuild this team needs to occur. I don't care about "needing two willing people to trade," nope. No more excuses for Hahn. He needs to deeply evaluable every viable prospect and major league player to assemble his trade package. There should be 30+ proposals at his disposal, one for every team. Even those with no chance of considering. This offseason will determine the course of our future, he should be acting as much Let's not act like breaking open the piggy bank is any less of an impossibility. Especially since it'll do little to improve a team with too many holes to fill in one offseason

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 01:19 PM) I don't disagree that a rebuild is a compelling option, and I agree that it's inevitable. It's just a question of whether you do it now or later. From what I've heard coming out of the front office, JR doesn't seem ready to commit to one just yet. So, if he wants to open up his wallet and try one more time, I don't think that's a crazy idea. But his window of opportunity for doing that will shut after next season, so it's now or never. So if the Sox don't do their rebuild this winter, it'll probably begin in July. But you see, if JR is really this old man fearing a rebuild, I'm sure he'll angrily shake his fists and say the window will be extended because of our pitching rotation. There will always be an excuse, I've seen it on these forums and its very predictable. What exactly makes 2017 the make or break year for JR in your opinion? Especially if, as you suggest, he opens up his wallet. What sense would it make to sign some FA's to go for it one year? My concern is at this moment you have Sale and Q healthy and contributing. Both are at high value. You wait until July, God knows whether that small probability rears itself and there are health or ineffectiveness issues. You'd hope for the best obviously, but these two pitchers mean so much to the future of this franchise and it's not due to them directly helping us win a championship. Our next playoff appearance will likely be after one or both of those two are gone. I'd rather not chance anything with our top two trading chips. One or both should be dealt this winter

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:37 PM) If you're going for it in 2017, the idea is that you add this offseason. Obviously, not changing anything and expecting better results is silly. 2017 really is their last chance, though. There's just not enough in free agency or the farm system to replace Frazier and Melky AND improve the the team as it stands now. If the Sox cannot appreciably add this winter, then I agree that they should sell off. My first option would be a rebuild. A second option far below that is doing absolytely nothing to the roster. Third would be attempting to trade/sign various players to try and compete. The problem is they can not appreciably add to theor roster this winter without (further) depleting the farm or overspending on a weak FA market As I see it, a rebuild is inevitable and I would not waste one cent trying to improve this team. They'll succeed or fail with what they have.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Oct 3, 2016 -> 12:30 PM) Hahn and KW are beyond lucky they work for the White Sox. If they were apart of any other organization, they would have been fired a long time ago. With that being said-- can you finally cut your losses and rebuild? Not a half-ass 2013-14 mini 'retool' job. I am talking a good 3-4 year rebuilding plan. Let's face it, Renteria really doesn't bring more fans to the stadium, but he does have a track record of working well with young players. The free agent class is weak, no need to sacrifice your 12th pick or anything. You have plenty of assets, start wheeling and dealing. Lets do this the right away. No more patch jobs, odd ball veteran signings etc... I believe in the sentiment thrown around here that playing safe with roster construction (ie, "going for it", avoiding long term contracts) is the key to job security for Hahn and KW. They're comfortable and not willing to make waves with Uncle Jerry. What's the route more likely to lead to their firing? Three more years of .500 baseball while doing their White Sox special of signing/trading veterans to put around around their core.......or losing (maybe even 90+ games) over the course of three seasons rebuilding? It's a lot of risk for Hahn, especially if it's involving prospects. This offseason, we'll see if Hahn is doing what he should for the future of the team, or just what he needs to keep his job. A rebuild I'd venture to predict is supported by a large percentage of the fanbase. If he does it right and there's talented players coming back, I know we'll accept losing.