Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 07:40 AM) This story is going to absolutely torch this message board. I expect to wake up later this afternoon to a thread exceeding 100 posts; perhaps with a side thread in the Filibuster. I know Soxtalk all too well.

Nothing will happen to Guillen as far as suspensions. Perhaps he'll apologize, but it won't be sincere regardless of how convincing his words are. In the future he'll probably offend someone else, and predictably, we'll have the SAME discussion about his attitude. Call it "silly logic," but I've accepted Guillen for who he is and won't raise one eyebrow to future comments. As I've alluded to earlier, what upsets me most about this incident is how it diverts attention from the actuall ballclub. It's wrong to publically display such disparaging remarks towards anyone. I just don't care. Guillen's manages our ballclub, not a public relations firm. And to certain people, I suppose this implies I'm approving of his homophobic words. However, regardless of nationality, sexual orientation, or religious affiliation, I've learned to accept a simple fact -- ignorant people often say ignorant things. Should I shake my fists? Should I attempt to convince you people I honestly give a s***?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 09:38 AM) As long as we keep winning ballgames, I can accept the fact that he's got the self-control of a five year old. He's not going to change that facet of his personality, although I wish he would. Which is why concerning ourselves with his comments is unreasonable. Personally, it's difficult to become aggrivated towards an individual with no regard to accountability. I suggest everyone make their assessment of Guillen now as an insensitive, blathering, often incoherent manager who'll continue to offend everyone possible. When it happens again you'll know what to expect. No one will be crying over their keyboard, comparing him to John Rocker.

QUOTE(LosMediasBlancas @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 08:45 AM) I've said it before, Ozzie is too easily baited and he's a minstrel show for the white media. It takes bigger balls to take the high road than it does to sling s***. Unfortunately, Ozzie was brought up to never turn the other cheek and that will never change. Los, I like the way you're put together. It's useless (IMO) debating this topic because Guillen...won't...change. Although I undersand It's envitable we're going to discuss such news on this message board. Members deserve an opportunity to post their thought. What I see happening concerning this issue is exactly like the others. It blows over fairly quickly, a few "Ozzie being Ozzie" sprinkled about, Guillen apologizes, then time passes before another incident in which people act surprised.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 08:40 AM) Probably, if he was saying it to someone who gave a s***. I thought you were a big deal? People know you, right?

Wouldn't this be a good topic for Around the Horn? Buy or Sell Mariotti as a "F.ag?" -or- Encouraged or discouraged with Guillen's comments towards Mariotti? The entire panel would agree it was appropriate.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 08:23 AM) Then of course there's the common sence factor... Yes, but as I said, what you perceive as common sense can just as easily be the best situation to hit another player.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 08:11 AM) What's bulls*** is that all these writers, Couch, Mariotti, etc, act all high and mighty, but who knows what their behavior is like behind closed doors. I've always said that I'd love to hear Bernstein from 670 get caught with a hooker, because he gets on his high horse so much. Listen, we're all human, and not perfect. Ozzie just needs to be more careful. I wouldn't expect anything else. Journalists have a job to do; and unless they're planning on finding another career, it wouldn't be wise to condone ANY faction of Guillen's rant. Cowley and Mariotti may be homophobes, but you can't expect either to say what they're really thinking. White Sox clubhouse with Ozzie is probably full of profanity laced, racially charged jokes and insults towards his players. Behind doors, every player in that clubhouse probably agrees with him. I believe last year following the mini controversy of calling an old friend a "homosexual" someone (believe it was Dye) said "That's Ozzie being Ozzie." They don't care. If it doesn't affect the clubhouse or our ballclub, then neither do I. Are we really going to continue acting shocked about what he says?

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 07:57 AM) Sidney said Tony did not order a beaning, nor were they intentional. Steff, at the risk of sounding insensitive here, I'll say this -- he probably wouldn't tell you the truth.

QUOTE(tonyho7476 @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 07:57 AM) I think the term *** and the term gay are being used more often, and not really to address homosexuals. I call things gay all the time, and it has nothing to do with homosexuals. I see these terms being more used as 'dork'. Not that it is right. That being said, Ozzie needs to never use that term around the media. It makes him look bad. Here lies the difference -- none of us would be willing to mention it in public. What Guillen needs to do is control himself in front of the media. He can be Ozzie Montana behind closed doors -- as I'm sure he is -- but you have to watch what you say on the record. What upsets me more than what he said is the attention it draws from the ballclub. We just MURDERED St. Louis and now will have to hear this story for several more days. Having Mariotti appear a sympathetic figure in any form doesn't sit well with me either.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 21, 2006 -> 07:42 AM) The warning was towards the Sox not to retaliate, no? I watched the replay on Tivo a dozen times this morning. The hits weren't intentional, IMO. You can always make the argument in your favor. For example: when a batter is hit with a 0-2 count in a close game, you'll hear people say -- "Well, he had him 0-2. Why would he put runners on?" That's exactly the spot you wouldn't expect someone to be hit, thus, it's really the perfect situation. With bases loaded, 0 outs, and Cardinals already losing big, it's not entirely out of the question for Ponson to hit our players. What, a run scores and now instead of a 14 run lead it's a 15 run lead? No difference to anyone. His can always fling his arms up in the air and look surprised. I'm not falling for it. These are major league pitchers, responsible for throwing over 90 mph in targets 60 ft away. He hit Anderson in the back and missed his target by a good foot. It wasn't just a grazed inside fastball, or a breaking ball that slipped out of his hand. Hell of a coincidence to occur twice if it were unintentional.

HUGE props to a certain member who told me about this story nearly 12 hours ago. This story is going to absolutely torch this message board. I expect to wake up later this afternoon to a thread exceeding 100 posts; perhaps with a side thread in the Roadhouse. Tell me about how Guillen represents the organization. How suggesting Mariotti is a f.a.g (why is this word the only one that's filtered?) is inappropriate. I've said it before and I'll say it again -- I don't give a f*** what he says. Perhaps growing up around cable TV has desensitized me. Or maybe it's because I'm a hetereosexual Caucasian male whose never been discriminated against. When I read people act like they're actually offended by what Guillen says, more often than not, I believe it's an act. A source of information which consistently provides fresh material. "OMG, he called someone TEH GHEY! I'm going to clinch my fists while writing this column." These columnist are attempting to act dignified and noble in critiquing his words, when in reality, most are glad he's spoken out against Mariotti. Well, everyone aside from Cowley. His dirt slinging ways have brought him from the Southtown to the Times. He'll replace Mariotti some day. Call Cal Ripken or Ken Griffey Jr. a *** and I'd expect legitimate outcry. For Mariotti, I won't even flinch. Explaining it further, because I'm sure someoen will quote this and suggest I'm letting him off easy with "ozzie being ozzie" mantra No. He's just a crazy man who's insensitive and brash. I'm not dismissing it entirely. Regardless of the circumstance, he'll openly speak his mind. He's wrong, yes; but don't act offended. Self-righteous behavior has no association with Mariotti on this issue.

Current rules governing hits batsmen essentially give one ballclub several open opportunties to hit an opposing team. I agree, it's ridiculous. How fair is it for one ballclub, whether it's Texas or St. Louis, to strike two players -- and then proceed to warn the team which was hit? If the umpires thought enough of Ponson's two hitbatsman to issue warnings, why not eject him? Hell, even when umpires take initiative and eject pitchers before warnings are issued they usually f*** it up. Think back to Buehrle and Baltimore, when our hitters were targets for several games and nothing happened until Mark throws inside.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 20, 2006 -> 12:48 AM) The amount of rookies producing when Liriano faces the Dodgers has to make you drool. RE: Garza is reaching his high innings point here in his next couple of starts. Watch for a dropoff. Just like we should expect with Liriano and Verlander right? Even if he drops off, the talent is still evident. If it's clear his production tails off after a certain number of innings, his ceiling drops from a #2/#3 in MInnesota's rotation to Juan Rincon's successor. What's Broadway's ceiling? A #4 starter? I've heard people anticipating him to perhaps develop into a Justin Duchscherer clone. Lol, ok. Took 6 years for Justin to work himself through the minors, and several more to develop into a good reliever. Although their AA numbers may actually end up comparable to one another, there's one noteable difference. Duchscherer can strike you out. His numbers in 143.1 innings in Boston's AA affiliate produced 126 strikeouts. Just for comparison sakes, if you extend Broadway's current numbers through 143.1 innings, he'll only have about 93. I know it's rudementary to multiply stats over time and expect similar results, (Pujols would have over 80 HR's if that philosophy were true) but what I'm ultimately suggesting is Broadway needs a strikeout pitch to EVER be compared to Justin. If we have to wait more than 4 years for Broadway to reach the majors he damn well better live up to the comaprison. By then, Garza and Carillo will have solidified themselves in the Minnesota and Padres rotation respectively.

Well, any matchup of those two against beleaguered National League lineups won't be pretty. Oh, and I happened to notice Minnesota's #1 draft pick in 2005 --Matt Garza-- is absolutely dominating AA competition. Unbelievable. Obviously, you can't even make comparisons between him and Broadway anymore. It's not going to get any easier in this division. Hardthrowing pitchers are seemingly generated out of thin air in their system.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Jun 17, 2006 -> 07:20 PM) which is why kerry wood is the most overrated pitcher ever and it also proves how k's are overrated too. They're not overrated in themself. Pitchers with the abillity to strikeout hitters obviously possess superior stuff. More often than not, strikeout pitchers are the league's best. Wood's problem is his mechanics. They're destroying his career. If he's healthy again, as he was in 2003, he'll pitch well.

So, this is how Cub fans must feel following a Kerry Wood start.. Throws 6 Innings, strikes out the world, but still manages to give up a handful of runs. Vintage Kerry Wood.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 17, 2006 -> 04:27 PM) My guess is he's been here before, or another WSI expatriate. No matter to me, everyone is welcome here, but it's highly interesting he was pointed to this thread by a "friend". LOL. How many brand new members have been pointed here by a "friend" to stick up for hangar's rants? As Hawk doesn't say "it's all arm twisting". It's obvious Hangar's friends from WSI are defending him. If you browsed their website occasionally, or simply knew his relationship among members from others on Soxtalk, you know there were a sizable contingent of supporters who fueled his rants. If his only purpose in registering is to post in this thread, well, that's a shame. Even though he opposes your opinion on this issue, I believe we can both agree members who add substance to this website should be welcomed.

Cleansox, I like the way you're put together. Welcome aboard.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 17, 2006 -> 03:56 PM) Wow....this might become a legendary post. What day should I plan Marmol's Hall of Fame acceptance speech? I'll say this -- if Marmol's in our minor league system he's immediately the best arm. Whether he surrenders 4ER or 20 this afternoon. Sure as hell would take him over Lance Broadway. How many White Sox pitching debuts within the last 12 years end on a 6IP, 1ER, 7K performance?

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Jun 17, 2006 -> 12:43 PM) Maglio doesn't count? Signed - 1991 (16 yrs old, I believe) Debuted - 1997 Lee Signed - 1994 Debuted - 1999 Since then - .......................... Even if you were to suggest, "well, there's proof it takes years for a Latin prospect to make the majors, " it's been 7 years since we've had even a DECENT prospect from Latin America. I'm not even talking about two on the level of Ordonez or Lee; but on the level of Timo Perez. It's really been pathetic. JimH insists we have scouts down there, and apparently, they're doing something besides drinking Coronas and scouting women. The way I look at it, they've done s*** for nearly a decade. It's been one long vacation.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Jun 17, 2006 -> 10:08 AM) Didn't the sox build a huge baseball academy in Venezuela. Liriano was traded to the twins also. Yes, on both accounts. If Guillen's popularity in Venezuela is any indication, his name alone should attract talented young players. The next Felix Hernandez better be wearing a Whtie Sox uniform. Liriano was originally signed by San Francisco from the Dominican Republic. My point is, you don't find Liriano's in the 35th round of the Major League draft pitching at some community college. Need to actually scout. Yeah, attrition rates for Latin arms are high. But if even ONE legitimate talent emerges it's worth it. Problem is, our organization has had trouble developing anything from Latin America within the last 7 years. This is indisputable, whether or not you're under the impression obtaining a Liriano or Santana was due to "luck," and/or terrible Twins teams. I rather increase my chances, even if such probability slightly shifts from 2% to 5%, that heavily scouting one day lends us scary talent. If this is considered unreasonable, then excuse me for setting aspiriations beyond Felix Diaz and Arnie Munoz.

Anyone know how the search for our Liriano is moving along? Or have we resigned ourselves to the fact "he's a 1-1000 talent," "29 other teams would want him," or the money simply isn't put into heavily scouting Latin American countries?

I've professed it for several weeks and will continue to: A perfect offseason in my mind is one in which Williams unloades Garland and Garcia. I'm just tired of watching these two pitch. Worry about a 5th starter later. I realize such a scenario is riverting back to 2004, but if those two are continuing to give us 5IP, 5ER performances I rather pay 8 million less for the same.

QUOTE(wsox08 @ Jun 16, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) I think four will be enough.. Call me crazy I'll say you're crazy. We haven't even seen Garcia throw one pitch. Knowing how he fares in early innings, Cincinnati may scratch across a few.