BlackSox13

If there really are only a few teams interested, f*** it let's make AJ an offer and let Josh and Tyler duke it out in ST to platoon with AJ. Not like we couldn't use a LHB in the lineup anyway.

Could be a defensive upgrade but don't know what to think outside of that. Could trade Flowers to the Mets.

My guess is it opens a bit more payroll for Miggy long term while gaining more spects for a futue trade. Maybe Price?

QUOTE (BigEdWalsh @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:35 PM) No. I'm a hermit. I've never seen a Fast and Furious movie. You are blessed! I barely made it through the 2nd one and stopped there. Too many supercharged sewing machines for my taste. Still prefer real american muscle cars. I will say that I think Walker did a good job of acting in the movies i had seen and was supposed to be a very good person with a genuinely big heart off the screen.

f*** man, JPA? Do we need another strike out king to compete with Dunn on this team? For f***s sake I thought the point of this off season was to improve a 99 loss team, not surpass that loss total in 14! There has to be a better option somewhere. See if peewee Herman is willing to don a catchers mask or something, just say no to JPA!

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 11:25 AM) Why is Ricky Nolasco good? He's been a career disappointment since 2008. A lot of pitchers would be after being stuck playing for the Marlins and Hughes pitched in Yankee stadium while showing some signs of being good here and there. Again, compared to the Twins rotation last year these guys have more to offer and Target Field is a pitchers paradise.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 11:07 AM) I think the is about Nolasco and Hughes being a 1-2 punch. I can see Nolasco being a 3.60 (DH now) and Hughes a 4.25. Probably didn't have much to do about A.J. Guess I still don't get it. Maybe I'm over estimating their potential but I can see those two helping the twins quite a bit. Compared to last years rotation, Nolasco and Hughes offer a potentially huge upgrade. I admit I might be giving more credit than what's due.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 1, 2013 -> 09:29 AM) What's to lol about? AJ knows how to call a game and target field is a pitchers park that would benefit Nolasco and especially Hughes.

Nolasco and Hughes should be an impressive 1-2 punch in that park, especially if AJ is calling games.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 10:01 PM) Another guy who just came available from Rockies is ouitfielder Tim Wheeler. Former First Rounder, he had a big year in AA in 2011, then injuries hit him and he was just outrighted to AAA. He had/had some pop and can play CF. Don't know his health status, but he was a solid prospect just 2 years ago. I like this idea. He's only 25 and healthy now. Just seems to need more AB's after that broken bone in his hand at the start of the 2012 season. Takes time to find your swing after something like that. The Denver post had a short blurb on him recently... http://blogs.denverpost.com/rockies/2013/1...-waivers/16061/ Worth a possible rule 5 pick. Good call oldsox.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 08:47 PM) Salty by a mile We can't trade our top pitching prospects at this point. That's the stuff that gets us into these messes. This post right here says it all.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 08:19 PM) Very good post. Well said. I agree with you. We simply need to continue to improve the farm and taking away a 2nd rounder does not help out this cause. I can see them attempting to make a trade for a CF. This trade will most likely include one of A. Ramirez or Beckham and a pitcher. This will depend on who they go after of course. They can still sign second tier guys to fill the holes at 3b and C positions. However, I have a feeling we will be getting that new CF via trade. Stay tuned... winter meetings are around the corner. Thank you sir and couldn't agree more about cf. Not sure who they would trade for but the Sox best talent is still at AA or below so a trade is the right idea. I read somewhere Micah Johnson could be converted to cf with his speed but he needs more time and I like the idea of him taking Gordon's job hopefully by ST 15. Would be great to have speed from the 2B position again. I believe your right when you Hahn will pull off a trade for cf. QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 08:19 PM) 4 of the top 5 guys in OPS are gone from that team. And Dunn is the 5th and he's getting more and more unreliable by the day(OPS is dropping a shocking amount year by year). Anybody who is expecting Abreu to match a .857 OPS or Garcia to maintain close to a .850 OPS needs to take off the rose colored glasses. Is it possible? Sure, but we are talking about rookies. 1 of which I don't think has even stepped foot on American soil yet. Expecting either to do so is unrealistic. And then there is the catcher spot.....AJ hit out of his mind that year, I'd be shocked if our C spot produces 3/4 of what he did that year. Our offense is still 2 or 3 guys away from our team being in real contention. We've already traded off 2 big pieces and suffered through 1 horrible season, why ruin progress with a waste of $ stopgap that isn't enough to get the team over the hump? Personally I see being bad for another year as the best possible thing for the franchise and its future. 2015 is a whole different story though, I'd be upset with anything less than a playoff appearance. If only I could have said it this well. Fine job! QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 08:23 PM) By my, perhaps twisted, logic they don't have to replicate what those guys did run for run. The Sox lost 52 of their 99 games by 2 runs or less. To me, and perhaps only to me, that means they're not as far away as some might think. Once again, perhaps only in my world, I think if you improve 3 positions, Abreu already being one, Granderson being another, and a trade could bring another. I see both arguments and believe they're both valid, Hahn can go either way. Actually your logic isn't twisted at all. I didnt realize the Sox lost 52 games by two runs or less so I see what you're saying about the gap not being as big as perceived. This is a very good point indeed. Imo, I still stay away from Granderson but those 2 runs make the idea much easier to grasp than before you made that point. Good call.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 06:16 PM) It isn't realistic if people play like they did last year, but players do play better and many get worse. Coming into 2012, no one thought AJ could put up the numbers he put up. Obviously a lot will have to go right, but that isn't unreasonable . I don't think Granderson will be a White Sox, I just don't understand, especially with limits on what you can pay draft picks and most international guys, why you can't build your minor leagues and try to win at the major league level. There are a few teams that seem to be able to do it. I agree rebuilding the farm can be done on the fly but Granderson would cause the Sox a 2nd round pick which itself goes against the rebuilding of the farm in the first place. I like what Granderson would do for the Sox but not at the expense of a 2nd round pick that is high in the draft order to begin with, then there's still the unknowns on the MLB roster. If the Sox were closer to contention I would be all over the idea of signing Granderson but unfortunately this was a 99 loss team and likely to take more than one off season to turn it around. The Sox have this off season, the June 14 amateur draft , the 14 intl draft and next off season to find out about these unknowns. It gives young guys like Micah Johnson, Semien, Sanchez etc to develope more and have a better idea of what we really have going into 15. 2014 will be a telling season on many levels.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 03:23 PM) You guys are avoiding DAs point about this team being just 1 year removed from being 4th in the AL in runs scored. I think it's completely plausible to think they can return to that esp. if Abreu hits like we're all hoping. I'm all for Granderson. He walks at a pretty good rate and he won't clog the base paths. Batting him 3rd ahead of Abreu-Dunn-Garcia would be quite the sexy middle of the lineup. If they can then trade Santiago for yet another piece then the offense should be more than good enough to get the Sox back in contention. The Sox don't have a catcher to replace AJ's production, Avi's too inexperienced to count on replacing Rios' numbers just yet, same can be said about Abreu replacing Paulie's numbers and despite Alexei's base stealing going up his power has been on a steady decline and we have no idea what to expect from Dunn. We also have no idea what to expect from a possibile healthy full season of Viciedo or Beckham, and not sure what to expext from Gillespie for that matter. I wasn't avoiding DA's point at all as I was ignoring it because there wasn't a realistic point to be made in the first place. Too many unknowns and Granderson won't be able to solve all that! He is just one potential plug on a team with many holes.

QUOTE (chisoxfan310 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 02:58 PM) Isn't it supposed to be a deep draft this year? We shouldn't be signing guys who are tied to draft picks when we have chance to finally bring in a lot of talent with our high draft slot. I hope there is a good catcher around for the second or third round that can develop quickly. Yes, its supposed to the deepest draft since 2011 so let's take advantage of it.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 02:28 PM) It's not a play on words. Rebuilding is trading guys like Chris Sale, Reed, Jones, Quintana for multiple pieces, gutting payroll, and going through multiple losing seasons on purpose. The Sox, based on what Hahn is saying and doing with the Abreu signing, are still trying to win next year. Most people Call that retooling. I agree the sox are still trying to win in 2014. This is where I disagree. How is trading young, cheap controlled talent rebuilding when that's the exact kind of talent you rebuild around in the first place? Trading high priced vets for young cheap talent is rebuilding, as was done years ago with the white flag trade. One more thing is Dunn and Danks are about the only high cost salaries left and if they had value you bet they would be gone, so would that still be re-tooling? I stick with its a play on words bit. If Hahn said rebuild he knows there would be less asses in the seats than currently expected. KW has tried selling this bs before with the " rebuilding on the fly" bit. Its all PR stuff,IMO. Hope I'm wrong no doubt,it just sounds too much like the same song and dance from the PR dept. I'm fine with rebuilding, just don't want smoke blown up my ass is all.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) The Sox are 1 year removed from being 4th in the AL in runs scored. I don't know why someone would have to be delusional to think that that kind of offense can re-appear fairly quickly with a couple of correct moves. It is almost as if people who want the Sox to rebuild seem to think it's a guarantee rebuilds work over the course of a few years. Look at reality. It really isn't. No rebuilds don't always work and neither does relying on the FA market. The affordable ( from the Sox perspective) FA market is weak and won't make the Sox contenders. Couple that with the Sox not having so little to offer in a trade makes putting a 14 competitive team that much more difficult. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 12:55 PM) I don't understand why you can't try to win and strengthen your minor league system at the same time. I can understand laying off some player because you have a prospect ready to give it a whirl at the major league level, but the Sox prospects are having problems hitting .200 in the minor leagues. There really isn't an OF that seems like he should be ready to roll this year or next. A weak farm is exactly why the Sox need to re-invest in the first place. I agree trying to rebuild on the fly but Grandy isn't the answer either. The Sox just aren't close snuff for Grandy to push them to the point of contention. Plus Detroit, Cleveland and Kc are much better than what Granderson would help the Sox become. QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 01:17 PM) This board may or may not push for a rebuild. But Rick Hahn isn't. Rebuilding is playing all young guys, gutting payroll completely, trading anyone of value, esp. a guy like Sale, and going through another season like last. Hahn isn't advocating that. That said, adding a vet like Curtis on a cheaper deal nearer $10 mil. who could help the sox win while adding key young guys like Avasail, Abreu, and at least one other via trade of a starting pitcher, does make sense. That would seem to fit in with Hahns vision of retooling rather than rebuilding. Really? Investing in Intl FA and a weak minor system isn't a rebuid when there isn't much talent available like you said and I agree with? Is there that big a difference between rebuilding and retooling considering the Sox current situation? Sounds more a play on words than anything else. QUOTE (beck72 @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 01:27 PM) There isn't unlimited amount of money to spend solely on picks and INTL signings with the cap in place. With the Abreu signing, it's a question of what players to add around him and Avasail. Both righty bats. Adding guys who can hit near the top of the order, hit lefty, and aren't weak in the field are logical next steps. Plus, at a position that doesn't block a guy like Semien or Micah Johnson-who aren't likely to help until the end of 2014 if then. Hahn has a plan. It's not luck that Abreu was signed before adding a free agent. I agree with what you say but Avi is still developing and Abreu is a huge unknown at this point so we really are rebuilding/ retooling aren't we? Not like these guys are proven or anything even tho I do like promising future these guys bring to the Sox.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 12:41 PM) Yeah I've been surprised by the amount of people who want to hold on and not embrace a rebuild. Not saying I haven't seen a good amount of people rooting for a rebuild, but there are just way more people who are delusional about the talent on the current roster. Curtis Granderson isn't going to make our horrible offense any less horrible. Couldn't agree more. I understand how its hard for some to accept when you want your favorite team to win but the truth is that this rebuild has been coming for a few years now giving the aging players and weak talent in the upper minor leagues. I'm no genius but for me this was easy to see coming and completly necessary.

“Your acceptance of this sales contract prohibits you from taking any action that negatively prohibits KlearGear.com.” "John Palmer bought a few Christmas gifts for his wife Jen on the website KlearGear.com in 2008, and he never imagined he’s still be paying the price for it five years later, CNN’s Pamela Brown reports. The Palmers say the items they ordered never arrived and the transaction was cancelled." Since the order was cancelled and no products or money was exchanged then there was no contract now was there? So this is a punishment on the consumer for voicing their displeasure ( free speech anyone?) because kleargear FAILED to uphold their end of the agreement in the first place! I'm so glad I don't participate any more in the corporate holiday that Xmas has become. I buy no gifts, i receive no gifts and could not be happier!

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Nov 29, 2013 -> 10:57 AM) Why? So he can be there just to ensure the team stays mediocre? This team does not need to be investing $ in any player that isn't apart of the future. Plus the current lineup is already over capacity with guys who can't keep their OBP above .320. You are one of very few voices of reason my friend. Signing Granderson to a team that's rebuilding/retooling etc is just spending money for the sake of spending money as well as just plain dumb. That money is better spent on player development than any one free agent. If this team was close to contending I would be all for it but they aren't so invest that money in the farm, future drafts and Intl signings. Look at it this way. Had we already signed Granderson we could very well have missed out on Abreu ( depending on years/ money per year for Grandy). Thanks but no thanks Curtis!

The 347 down the lines reminds me of the Joey Belle days. I liked new Comiskey better when the lines were 347, used to be one of of the tougher parks to hit one out and now its one of the easiest.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 25, 2013 -> 04:06 PM) And sometimes, like Mozeliak did , traded Freese at approximatelyt the same time or once he knew Peralta was wrapped up ,but not announced as such ,so as to not weaken the value of Freese by having a glut of infielders. Exactly! That's a perfect example Cali. Great point.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 25, 2013 -> 11:35 AM) I think I'd still be excited about it in June but man HS pitching that high scares the hell out of me. I hear ya as it does me too but Kolek's big frame helps to set my mind at ease a bit. 6'6 245 is pretty solid, especially for an 18 year old. No guarantees but worth the pick at this point (IMO).

How about we keep in mind that there are teams playing the FA market and as teams sign their FA's they will have a better idea who they will consider making available via trades. I'd be willing to bet this is one reason Hahn hasn't been able to deliver any presents to the kids yet. Good grief are people impatient!

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 24, 2013 -> 06:10 PM) Dude, it's not even December yet... No s*** man! I think too many people had an idea in their heads and allowed it to manifest into an expectation. Too early to panic. Besides, one potentially missed opportunity just might lead to a better opportunity later.