steveno89

QUOTE (Moncada @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) A few the things I've read say a deal with Pitt would be something like glasnow, diaz, ++ Diaz is not a good enough prospect to be the second piece in a Quintana deal I need top top prospects for Quintana, and the second piece would need to be premium

QUOTE (reiks12 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 11:18 AM) They are much more reasonable than Astros fans. You would have thought Q was a garbage #5 the way they talked about him. Astros fans did not want to part with anyone for Quintana Pirates fans do seem to be more realistic in that Glasnow and/or Meadows need to be on the table for a deal to happen. Meadows appears to be off the table, which would seriously hamper the ability to work a trade. Bell is a good prospect, but his bat at 1B/DH is much less valuable that a player at a more premium defensive position.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:13 AM) So, I gotta come in and defend the Pirates here. This is a team that won 98 games in 2015 and deserved to. If McCutchen is still able to put up all star numbers, this is a team with a number of strengths. In the OF, you've got 3 plus bats and at least 2 plus defenders - Marte is a borderline all star every year, McCutchen has won MVP awards, Polanco is 24, has gotten better every year, and had an above average bat last year. If his power develops as he ages he'll be an all star, so there's 3 borderline all stars and a guy who has been an MVP. That OF on paper is competitive for best in baseball. Their IF isn't filled with stars like their OF is, but Kang, Harrison, Freese, and Mercer are all 1-3 WAR players in a normal year. Decent defense, decent bats, fills in a fairly deep lineup when you have those 3 big OF bats. 1b has been a weak spot for them for years now, but Josh Bell pencils into that role nicely right now. Catcher - Cervelli again, not an all star, but a good strong catcher and handles a staff well. Their pitching rotation - Gerrit Cole is a legit number 1 starter, follow that by Taillon, Glasnow, and Kuhl and you have a young, strong, cheap starting rotation to pair with him. Bullpen has been a strength for years, and they've had an excellent record of both developing pitchers and of pulling out reclamation projects. What happened to them last year? Well first of all their pitching rotation got hurt and fell apart. Cole hit the DL, Liriano was terrible, that took a rotation that was near the top of the NL in 2015 down towards the bottom last year. They had to play a lot of rookies, the rookies have talent but you can only get so far with that young of a rotation. On top of that, McCutchen fell apart - that's the difference between being in the WC race and out of it right there, you don't replace an MVP who has a terrible year. With the young pitching they have, the only reason why that team can't be competitive with the Cubs and Cardinals again is if the same things happened this year. If McCutchen's career is really finished, then they're not competitive unless they trade him, and if Cole can't stay healthy then that does what Sale being hurt would have done to us - destroys them. That's a strong roster if a few things go well. Adding in Quintana could be a really good fit - if they're worried about injuries then add in the most reliable pitcher you can find into that #2 slot and you've made that rotation into as good of a rotation on paper as there is in that division, and if you could do it without subtracting Bell or anyone from the big league rotation by using Meadows as the key piece, then the baseball logic works. That doesn't guarantee they'll beat the Cubs, they need Cole to be healthy and McCutchen to be MVP caliber again to do that, but they would be a strong roster on paper and that's a good place to be. There are other ways to make that work if they got a full return for McCutchen also, so there's a good match on paper for that franchise. Quintana is a great fit for the Pirates due to his contract. They are not going to spend $100+ million in the next two offseasons to land a big time free agent, and they have a solid team right now. Adding Quintana really would solidify the rotation and allow them to compete with the Cubs and Cardinals right away

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) I think a realistic package has to start around one of Meadows/Bell. Obviously, Medows is much more enticing but I also think he's much more unrealistic. Would everyone be happy with a package of Bell, Newman, Keller & lower level guy? That's 3 top 100 guys & a throw in like with Boston. The caliber of prospects isn't as high as the Sale deal but there's a bit more depth to this one. I value Meadows considerably higher than Bell because he can play center field (at a plus graded level). That is more valuable than a first baseman/DH.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) I would recommend listening to Callis on Garfein's podcast dropped last night. He wasn't that worried about fastball decline and mentioned how the Nats were jerking him up and down after each start. It's more easy for me to imagine and understand Giolito after going through the ups and downs with Rodon. It's hard to imagine how a guy with a 97 fastball and slider like he has not dominating, and left handed to boot! But to consistently harnass that power isn't always a clear line. http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-white-so...uture-white-sox Big pitchers take time to develop command/control You can't teach pure stuff, and Giolito flashes a plus fastball, curveball and changeup...just not regularly at the same time

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) Meadows, Hayes and an arm that the scouts like. Let's do this right now. Too light for 4 prime seasons of cheap Quintana The second piece in the deal has to be an elite prospect to go along with Glasnow or Meadows

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:52 AM) He has very little power and you can't possibly expect his OBP numbers to stay at that level as he ascends through the minors. He does draw walks at a very impressive rate and has a tick above average speed, as well as is an average fielder. That is a great guy to have as a leadoff or #2 hitter.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:46 AM) Newman you mean? I edited it, yeah Newman really broke out this season. His patience at the plate is excellent. He would profile really well as a starting second baseman and #2 hitter. The only real knock is that he has ZERO power. A minor league career ISO of .100 is far below average power wise

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:38 AM) I wanted to start a discussion on Giolito to gather some opinions from our more savvy posters regarding his future in the MLB. Basically, when the trade happened people were saying Shelby Miller 2.0 and that the Sox fleeced the Nationals. I think a lot of people here had a more clear view of the trade, yes the Sox got a nice return but the Nationals got a good player and I highly doubt he will be as bad as Shelby Miller has been for Arizona. However, I was reading some tweets and articles talking about Giolito and that a lot of executives at the winter meetings had him lower on their prospect list then the national outlets. How low? One may never know, but it is interesting topic for discussion because some felt the Sox fleeced the Nationals, while others are down on Giolito. If Giolito isn't as good as we hope, then it severely hurts the value of this deal. Lopez projects as a bullpen piece, which is fine, and Dunning could be a starter but he's kind of far away yet. Giolito is the headliner and there's talk that the Nationals screwed up delivery, so he seems like an ideal candidate for the Sox to fix. I guess I just want to see what some of you guys out there feel like his ceiling really is. Giolito is a work in progress, but he has the raw stuff and talent that you cannot teach. He is not a finished product right now, and still needs significant time in AAA to work on his mechanics and command. While I'm not sure he will become an ace, his floor is very high as well. He is a little more hittable than we would like to see, but I have high hopes for him.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) Yah, who wants a dude that got on base 39% of the time last year? If Newman has even fringe average power potential instead of no power he would easily be a top #15 prospect right now. His hit tool is legit plus.

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) I agree, but honestly, I think the Pirates aren't moving Meadows under any circumstance. I'm fine with that. More teams entering the bidding will only drive up the price for Quintana. I'm confident that we will get a huge haul

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) Right here, man! Like most of us -- watching, with great interest. It ain't over 'til it's over, but, yeah, for the longest time I've been thinking the Pirates would be a serious contender for either Sale or Q (most likely Q) since it became obvious the Sox were going to auction off their prime assets. Baseball is just like most businesses, heck, like most relationships. "Need" trump "like." Every single team with any reasonable chance of contending would "like" a Sale or a Q. Not only for their talent, but also for the contract attached to the talent. But a team like the Pirates truly "need" this kind of asset because they can never win a FA bidding war against the big boys. Push come to shove, I always suspected the Pirates would likely step-up and, in the end, would be willing to pay MORE out of the warchest from which they could actually compete -- young talent. Take a team that needs to pay more like the Pirates, factor in that their available currency (young talent) is what they have in significant quantities and is exactly what the Sox need out of this "auction," and then add that the centerpiece of any likely trade -- Meadows -- is exactly the kind of everday stud OF'er the Sox need ... well, they always seemed to be a super-likely trade partner to me. Cy Acosta, where are ya buddy? There is finally a legit rumor involving the Pirates. biggrin.gif How about Meadows (#9), Newman (#42), Keller (#72) and Diaz? Gives the Sox a return of two top 50's, a top 100 and a catcher that profiles to at least be a backup MLB C with good defensive skills and strong arm. Meadows + Newman + Keller + Diaz would be a nice haul for Quintana

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:10 AM) The Pirates really should be interested. But if they hold off their top guy, I am not sure they have enough to get it done. I see Meadows being the sticking point for the Pirates, and what will hold up a deal being done. They view him as the center fielder of the future post McCutchen. Glasnow or Meadows would have to headline, but you would have to imagine the Sox would likely prefer the top end position player in a Quintana deal The price tag would be Meadows + Glasnow or Keller + more

QUOTE (Dunt @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:12 AM) .814 OPS from a shortstop is pretty, pretty good. By comparison, Anderson only exceeded .800 once and that was in 2014. In addition, Newman has an incredibly advanced approach that would be ideal at the top of the lineup. In 2016, he actually walked more than he struck out. That's insane in milb. He's got some speed and there is some belief that he has the tools to stick at SS which would make him an above average defender at 2B. Newman's approach at the plate is excellent, all he does is hit and consistently get on base. The power is very lacking, but he takes a ton of walks and has decent speed. He projects to be a starting caliber SS or 2B and a solid table setter for the offense

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 09:01 AM) I think it's a question of does an asset like this fit our longterm plan. As a few of us have discussed, you can look at their situation in a number of ways: 1) They need to acquire talented veterans like Q on cost-controlled contracts by trading from their prospect base; 2) They need to keep their prospect base because they can't compete in any way other than by stacking cost-controlled talent. They likely are trying to pull off some mix of the two. If Quintan is dealt they would ideally like to turn him into multiple high end position player talents so that we can fill out our major league roster. I am not against getting more quality pitching, but we have glaring position player needs. Houston, New York and Pittsburgh seems to all be in on Quintana, as well as the Rockies possibly. This bidding war bodes well for the Sox Pittsburgh: Meadows + Newman + Keller + one more prospect could be a deal that works for both sides

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 08:48 AM) This deal makes a ton of sense for the Pirates, even at a steep cost. If their playoff chances start going south within 2 years or so, and provided Quintana is still pitches as he does now, they can still flip him again for an awesome return to some other team to help offset the prospects they lost to acquire him in the first place. I would think Meadows would be a must. I like Mitch Keller alot, he took major strides forward this season and projects as a mid rotation starter. I'd obviously start the price with Glasnow + Meadows ++

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 08:38 AM) The only explanation I can think of is that Kevin Newman is a familiar that spawned from Robin's shame and despair. It seems clear that his destiny is to join the Sox and single-handedly serve the Rangers a devastating playoff defeat as an increasingly infirm Ryan watches from a luxury suite. Meadows, Glasnow, Bell, Newman, Keller, Hayes, Craig, Diaz...there is definitely a potential deal to be made here out of those players

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 21, 2016 -> 12:48 AM) .290/.320/.450 15 HR 30 SB That's a 4 WAR SS (with good D), right? That is borderline all star shortstop

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 09:04 PM) Things like this are where people take stats a little too literally. Sure he put up a .685 OPS. He did it at age 21 in High A ball, where he was nearly two years under the league average age. He struck out at a pretty low rate. He has insane speed. He has average power to go along with plus tools across the rest of the board. Regressing statistically is not what I would like to see from a supposed top 25 prospect

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 08:51 PM) Have at it, I'm driving. Reserving my right to post mine later when not potentially killing someone with a two ton hunk of steel. .276 avg .317 obp 13 home runs 28 steals

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 08:27 PM) I'm not a fan of Mateo. .300 OBP. I think Martes is a #2 starter. I'd rather have Martes. I like the Yanks potential headliners better though. I would need two of Torres, Frazier and Rutherford plus one or two more prospects to make a deal happen.

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 08:00 PM) That's a pretty great deal, buying low on Severino is vintage White Sox. Frazier and Mateo make a ton of sense for a team obviously trying to build up the middle. Compare it to the rumored Astros proposal Frazier = Tucker Mateo > Martes Severino > Musgrove Severino has immense talent, and his high ERA last year corresponded with an identical FIP as his hysteria inducing 2015 campaign. Perhaps in a vacuum Severino and Musgrove are equal (maybe even a slight edge to Musgrove), but to the White Sox there is a distinct appeal Severino has. And for those saying the Sox need more position players, well here is one of the best OF prospects in the game who will break camp in AAA and another MIF prospect (can never have too many) who has literally 80 speed. I'm down on Mateo after he posted a .685 ops in high a ball this season. That does not warrant top prospect status, plus his defense was suspect.

QUOTE (Tony @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 06:42 PM) Sports Mockery and "reporting" don't really go together. Haha agreed. I would be pissed off if Quintana was dealt for such a poor return. I'd rather keep him than accept that package

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 06:16 PM) I agree the sox need to bring in some additional catching depth if Collins can't stick behind the dish. Ideally they're targeting high minor assets like Garret Stubbs with Houston, Carson Kelly with the Cardinals, Pedro Severino with the Nats, Austin Barnes with the Dodgers, Victor Caratini with in the cubs system or Tom Murphy with the rockies, failing that there are other interesting catchers further down the pipeline in the dodgers system like Keibert Ruiz and Donny Sands in the yankee's system. I think the deal starts with Torres and then one of Frazier or Rutherford, an additional arm like Fowler/Adams/Montgomery and a lotto ticket like Sands or Perez. I gotta say I love the Mahalanobis Comps of Carlos Gonzalez for Frazier & Edgardo Alfonzo for Torres. a future of infield of Torres/Anderson/Moncada just scream athleticism and defense. Sports mockery is reporting the white sox asked for severing, Mateo and Frazier for Quintana. I highly doubt that was their request

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 20, 2016 -> 04:34 PM) True, you could even say the all power no hit tool no batting eye is the rare player we have graduated to the show. The organization has made it clear they are focusing on actual baseball players, rather than 5 tool "athletes" The have emphasized on base percentage in recent draft picks of Collins, Fisher and Call. They did a great job at drafting arms with upside as well in Hansen, Elliott, Lambert, Flores, and Hamilton Aaron Schnurbusch absolutely raked in Rookie Ball and might turn into a decent prospect.