steveno89

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) Both Callis and Law said Torres was going to be Top 5 or Top 10 on their updated lists. i know he's farther off than the other guys but that kind of ranking puts him only a step down from the Benintendi/Swanson/Bregman group if not right there with them. Benintendi, Swanson and Bregman are all better prospects than Torres is right now Torres could reach that level if he performs well in 2016, but he has never played above A+ ball How he performs this year in AA will be very telling as to where he stands as a prospect against significantly improved competition

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) I could see a realistic deal being Torres/Rutherford/Adams. Feels considerably light

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:59 PM) You know its pretty difficult to asses where these guys are going to land until the lists actually come out, but right now judging by the remarks of a lot of people in the business of following prospects and their stocks there is a ton of helium on Torres and Kapreilian from their success in the AFL. Rutherford had an OPS over 1.000 as a 19 year old in rookie ball, so his trajectory has his stock pretty high too. I'm not knocking Rutherford, but at age 18 he is very far away from contributing at the mlb level. He will likely start the season at low A ball, possibly sniffing high A by end of this season at best. He then would need at least a full season in AA and another full season at AAA before getting the call to the bigs in 2020, late 2019 at earliest. I'm not sure the Sox see that as lining up with their plan to contend. He's a very good long term prospect, but I feel like we want to target prospects closer to the majors. Kaprielian is decent, but has barely thrown any minor league innings due to injury. He's far off being a Q centerpiece

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:55 PM) And it doesn't sound like Hahn wants to deal him for less than what they received for Sale as well. Teams know what the pricetag is Colorado price = Rodgers + Hoffman or Pint + Tapia or Marquez or Freeland Houston Price = Martes + Tucker + Reed + Perez or Martes+ Tucker + Musgrove New York Price = Torres + Frazier + One or two more good prospects

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:52 PM) And Quintana is a very good pitcher, he is not on the level of Sale. He's not Sale, but he is also under control for four seasons vs. three seasons of Sale (at the same dollar cost) I'm not parting with him to the Yankees for less than Torres + Frazier + at least one more good prospect

QUOTE (Con te Giolito @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:32 PM) Yankees will never do that deal. You're asking for a ~top 10 guy, two top 50 guys and a fringe top 100 guys. Again, the Yankees aren't going to give up more for Quintana than the Red Sox did for Sale. I'm not saying Torres is off limits, but Torres + 3 others including another top 50 guy is not happening. Torres isn't quite Moncada, but he's damn close. So if the Sox are getting him back they are probably only getting a 3 player deal rounded out by a couple low end guys. I'm not opposed to that deal, by the way. The Yankees "low end" guys are pretty damn good. They have better players in their top 50 than the Sox have in their top 30 (perhaps an exaggeration, but the Yankees are truly loaded). Alternatively the Sox could accept a lesser headliner and perhaps get Kapreilian, Mateo or Adams as a second piece. Both scenarios are superior to the rumored Astros package (and I love Kyle Tucker), and I think more than an adequate return for Quintana. If I can't get Torres + Frazier plus at least one more prospect I am not sure there is a Yankees package that would make sense Torres is a very good prospect, but he is not on the level of Moncada.

QUOTE (peppers312 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:16 PM) i LOL'd For as highly touted as the Yankees farm is, I'm not sure I really like any of their prospects outside of Frazier and Torres all that much (even they come with question marks) Mateo did not really perform very well at A+ ball this season (.685 OPS) Judge is nearly 25 years old and strikes out a ton Rutherford looks like a quality prospect, but is a very long way from the majors (ETA looks like 2020 if everything goes right). I think the Sox are looking for closer to the mlb talent. Sheffield is a decent prospect, but he is undersized and likely going to end up as a reliever.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 03:10 PM) Robertson is a guy I'd hold onto since his market is cold. I figured as much since he hasn't been dealt. Mentor Burdi some and then deal Robertson at the deadline. He's a good closer. He'll have a market at the deadline. Consensus seems to be he is on the roster until the deadline unless a team gets antsy in the offseason and offers up a haul

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:59 PM) He's had zero pressure. It's like the pressure of a back up QB vs a starter. By what metrics are you using to say that Quintana is not an elite starting pitcher? His results have been fantastic season after season, plus he has been healthy. Just because he was not the best starting pitcher on his team, does not mean he is not an ace

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:44 PM) Yes. However...we gotta think about something. The reason why we're in the position we're in by having all kinds of good, young, cheap, controllable players is because we have a lot of players who bought into the talk of us going all in. In order to do so, our management probably convinced young promising players to agree to lower contracts for extended time periods to prepare to contend. "We aren't the Yankees and this is how we get to where we're going--we want you to be a part of it for a long time." If we trade those guys for huge hauls, the players may not be so quick to sign those types of contracts in the future. Remember what RH said when he dealt Eaton--he said the only regret he had was to Eaton himself because he hadn't anticipated trading him so soon into his contract. It's a slap in the face to guys to agree to a lower contract for a longer time frame to be a centerpiece for a team--only to be flipped as management uses that contract against them to get more value in a trade. I know it's business...but it's also something players could catch on to before they "agree to be a part of a big picture future" for less. Players often will accept the security that an early extension will bring them. One injury and their value can tank big time. The players view is that they cannot get too greedy and would rather ensure their families' future early, rather than roll the dice seeking a huge payday. Sale, Eaton and Quintana will still hit free agency young enough to land one more significant contract

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) Assuming the Yankees view Frazier as a core player due to his proximity to the big leagues (and need to replenish their OF with young talent), it would have to be Torres and Rutherford as your two headliners with Mateo (somewhere between Robles, but closer to Basabe) as the wild card third piece or four players and the last two being bigger question marks. Mateo and Judge are both very overrated prospects in my opinion. Judge is massive at 6'7" , 275 lbs and I worry about how a frame like that will hold up over time. He strikes out far too often for my liking. He will be 25 years old in April, and is not exactly a "young" prospect. Mateo is a good fielder and has great speed, but I worry about his hit tool. He did not exactly tear up high A this season at age 21, and I'm concerned AA pitching will eat him alive. He put up a below average ISO of .125

QUOTE (BRIRO2017 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) He's a number 2. He wasnt even a number 1 on a bad team. Ever. Being a number 1, on a good team, is something Q hasnt even approached. Abreu and Ordonez get/got most of their "numbers" when their team is/was buried. Quintana has much to prove to ever be considered a 1. The past three seasons have Quintana at #7 of all starting pitchers in WAR. I'm not sure how that is not considered to be an ace by any stretch?

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:48 PM) Yeah, a couple of them started at Torres + Frazier and said more would need to be added. Two seasons and a few months rental of Miller got the Yankees Frazier + Sheffield 3 months of Chapman got them Torres plus more 4 years of Quintana should absolutely get the White Sox Torres + Frazier ++

QUOTE (almagest @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) I was expecting proposals like "We'll give them Texiera and Headley for Quintana, Robertson and Frazier" but those are all actually sane. They seem to be thinking the same as us - they've got a ton of hitting prospects and we have the pitching they used to have need. I firmly believe that 4 cheap years of Quintana is equal to (possibly even greater than) the value of three seasons of Sale at the same dollar amount

QUOTE (onedude @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) I'd probably do Jones and DROB for Robles... We might have the worst bullpen of all time if we traded Jones and Robertson haha

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:34 PM) Sale netted #1 and #30, so 2 top 50 isn't out of the question, Q is nearly as good as Sale if hype is ignored and production analyzed. So, fine, how about Torres, Frazier, Andujar, Montgomery? I would definitely take a Torres, Frazier, Andujar and Montgomery for Quintana Quintana's four years of control for $38 million make him a huge bargain I am reading a bunch of articles suggesting "Maybe Mateo + Kaprielian" or "Justus Sheffield" as a centerpiece should get it done and am laughing Judge frightens me. He strikes out far too often and I don't know how long his 6'7" , 275 lb body will hold up. Mateo is a good fielder and very fast, but I am not sure how his hit tool will hold up. Rutherford is very far away from the major leagues

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:11 PM) Fixed. Safe to say any of us would trade Robertson for Robles in less than a heartbeat straight up

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:25 PM) Yes, 4 top 100 including 2 top 50 is an insane package. Per the bmags soxtalk-value-to-actual value formula, you take out the 2nd and 4th best player in that package and you are a lot closer to a trade. You start your request by asking for Torres, Frazier, Sheffield and Andujar Torres + Frazier is not crazy considering three seasons of Sale got the White Sox Moncada + Kopech as a centerpiece

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 01:24 PM) The Morosi report seems like a White Sox leak. Perhaps, I don't see the Yankees offering up what it would take. The Chapman signing to big money is interesting though, because it suggests the front office is not keen to wait multiple years for a rebuild. Trading for Quintana would accelerate the process, but would cost many of their top prospects

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 11:53 AM) I dont' think it has to include Frazier. I could definitely make a package without him. I think it's Torres / Frazier + or a deal isn't happening I'm not huge on Mateo or Judge

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) Mateo stock is going down. Deal would have to include Torres and Frazier, which seems unlikely Torres + Frazier as a centerpiece would be a must. The deal would have to include at least one more (possibly 2) quality prospects as well I like Jordan Montgomery as a projectable left hander with good control

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 11:32 AM) But Bruce Levine said we could get Robles. I laughed so hard when I saw that article

QUOTE (Fantl916 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) sure, that makes sense. just seemed interesting that his name even came up. i'd assume most would rather have a solid prospect w years of control over pineda w 1 yr hoping a) coop fixes him and b) you then sign him to a longer deal at a reasonable price I would start my request with Frazier + Torres ++ and go from there

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 11:31 AM) You don't spend the money they spent on Chapman if you aren't planning to contend. The Yankees' rotation is a mess. Whether they have the pieces to make a deal work depends on how they feel about Gregorious/Castro as their middle infield. If they think one of those guys is fine, then one of Torres/Mateo is expendable. Have to think they'd be open to moving Rutherford since he's a couple years away. So one of Torres/Mateo + Rutherford + is a workable framework. And all else being equal, that framework works way better than Martes + Tucker + for me. Torres , Rutherford ++ works for me

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 19, 2016 -> 10:47 AM) Even if it is, maybe this leak will pressure Houston or even Colorado to give the Sox what they want. I'm hopeful. C'mon Rick Hahn. Their system is very heavy on position players, so it does make sense for them to look into a cost controlled arm like Quintana. Torres would be a nice centerpiece ++