steveno89

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) No. Gurriel is an eliter hitter and put up similar numbers to Bregman in a similar number of games despite never playing American professional baseball before. The Astros had Bregma in the fold when they decided to go out and get Gurriel as an upgrade at the position. No way Lunhow gets away with paying that guy $50M to sit on the bench. To me, its more likely that Bregman ends up in the Zobrist super utility role and plays a bunch of LF. Gurriel has potential, but Bregman is not going anywhere

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 02:07 PM) That's adorable, guys. I'm calling a Martes/Tucker/Reed deal happening this offseason now. If you can get Stubbs on the back end even better. Houston is absolutely in win now and there is no pitcher on Quintana's level out there that will be traded. I think Gray and Archer stay put

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 02:00 PM) Where are they going to play Bregman, especially if they bring in EE? C - Stassi/McCann 1B - EE/McCann 2B - Altuve SS - Correa 3B - Gurriel LF - Beltran/Aoki CF - Springer/Marisnik RF - Reddick DH - Gattis/EE/Beltran I get them wanting to hold on to him, but I am not sure where he is making an impact in that lineup. I am not a fan of getting Bregman, I feel he is being immensely overvalued for a SSS of production, I felt the same way about Turner. I would rather have quantity of quality rather than value wrapped up into fewer players. Bregman is way better than Gurriel and would start at 3B Gurriel goes to the bench

QUOTE (BrianAnderson @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:56 PM) I love Bregman, but if they weren't willing to budge on Sale for him, then Q ain't getting him either. Maybe on a one for one, but I'm not sure anybody wins that deal. I'd like to maybe wrestle Reed away from them - I'm just not sure we have anything left that matches up. They don't have a need for Frazier or Melky. Robertson is too expensive for them. Jones could make sense, but you can say that about every team. I hate to say it, but I'm not sure they matchup well with us when you take away Bregman from the deals. They certainly can match up, but they need to stop calling players like Martes and Tucker "untouchable".

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:21 PM) What about Robles if the Sox include Robertson plus Nate Jones, or pick up part of Robertson's remaining Contract. I guess I am trying to figure our how our Sox can get a decent position player prospect instead of Moncada plus a slough of pitching prospects. You know, desperation may be setting in for Rizzo since he whiffed on a few trades already. Robles is an elite prospect, you are not getting him for Jones or Robertson at this time

QUOTE (FT35 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:40 PM) Just a quick comp: Player A: 208 innings, 3.20 ERA, 1.16 WHIP, 181 K's, Salary, Aprox 5M/yr Player B: 230 innings, 3.99 ERA, 1.20 WHIP, 228 K's, Salary $30M/yr Player A is Q, and Player B is David Price. Now...my comp isn't to say that they are so similar--Price is more overpowering...but my point is to take a look at the cost to obtain a true ace of this caliber. The main numbers aren't THAT far apart. Most of Q's value comes in to play when teams can add a TOP of the line pitcher for minimal cost--then still have the $ to go buy a major FA. That's why I think Hahn should hold out on Bregman with Houston or for the top prospect for any other team. Getting Q at his current salary is like having a free David Price--then still being able to go out and buy ANOTHER David Price at market value. Trading for Q enables that 2-fold move--and for teams looking to win now, that's the type of move that puts your team over the top. Moves that put your team over the top these days cost you your top prospect. Kudos to Hahn for not settling--and I don't think he will on Q. With as many years left on his contract and as quiet as he is--Hahn could keep him at this value and have him for when our team is ready to make a run in 2-3 years. Quintana Giolito Rodon Lopez Kopech (Fulmer? Dunning? Burdi? Hensen? They seem to be relievers now, but sometimes that can change). Plus we can add a couple more TOP draft picks in there from what we're likely to have over the next couple of years). That's not a bad starting 5 as a "consequence" for not getting a Quintana deal done. That's almost worth Houston's best interest to break up now while they have the chance! Because if they don't--their window to win is slim--that is until this 5-some starts to come of age. The pressure is certainly more on Houston to get a deal done. They should trade for Q and have him locked up for years, then use their savings to sign Turner/Encarnicion to fill Bregman's spot--and they would still have $ left to add. Just my opinion. Houston won't and should not trade Bregman for Quintana or Sale Swapping him for Quintana helps your pitching, but equally hurts your offense as well I'm not 100% against keeping Quintana, but I feel like the best time to move him is right now with no other quality options on the market (Jason Hammel...yikes) Asking for Bregman is unrealistic, but Martes/Tucker/Reed is a package I could see Houston eventually caving on. Hell ask for Stubbs on the back end as well to round it out.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:30 PM) Why are you assuming that all 3 were ever in a deal though? We aren't going to get all 3 of Martes, Reed, and Tucker. The deal would have been made already. Given all of the pitching we've already received I'd be just fine with starting the deal at Tucker and Reed. The 3rd prospect would have to be pretty good though given neither Tucker or Reed are great headliners. David Paulino is a name that still seems expendable to them and would just be fun to add another power arm to the stable. Maybe not "95%", but I think Tucker, Reed, and Paulino isn't too far off from Moncada, Kopech, and Basabe. Obviously trying to recreate a headliner like Moncada is impossible and everything else will seem to fall short, but I really like Tucker. I think in 3-4 years he could be hitting .300 /.350/.450 with 15-20 hr's and 25-30 steals. His glove and athleticism are both good and as of right now he's still being projected in CF. Kyle Tucker, AJ Reed, David Paulino and Gilberto Celestino. I'd take that for Q. I know Reed isn't on many lists anymore but or all intents and purposes that's 3 top 75 prospects and a recent fairly large international signing. I don't like a: Tucker/Reed/Paulino/Celestino deal enough to move Quintana For all intents and purposes Quintana and Sale have nearly identical value given the 4th year of control How do we go from getting (2) top 30 prospects to now having Tucker be a centerpiece? Not enough value coming back to the Sox and Tucker is far from a sure bet Martes and Tucker would have to centerpiece a Q deal + a third piece along the lines of Reed/Fisher to round the deal out. Any less and I would not be motivated to trade him

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:22 PM) Check out Hahn's most recent quotes. He mentions that there will be some bumps in the road and pain as well as expecting to compete within the next 5 years. His rhetoric mixed with the recent moves leads me to believe they are going for an everything-must-go rebuild. 100% each of those players should and will be kept in the minors to gain an additional season of control This is a full rebuild, but it takes two (or more) teams to tango so to speak Trades happen because teams have to want the White Sox players and also be willing to give up certain talent. Right now we need to understand that it might take awhile for the market on Q, Robertson, Abreu, Jones, Melky, Frazier, etc. to come to them for a deal

QUOTE (striker @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Rangers pretty much gutted their minors for Beltran and Lucroy. Rangers also acquired Jeffress along with Lucroy, and when you consider that it does not make the trade look all that bad of Brinson + Ortiz + TBD The return for Quintana should be very similar to Sale given the 4th year of cheap control We received 2 elite prospects in Moncada and Kopech (top 30) + a "B" prospect in Basabe (top 200?) + lottery ticket in Diaz Lets say Kopech and Martes have equal value right now relatively speaking as a second piece The drop off from Moncada to Tucker is considerable, to the point where the third player in the deal would have to be of higher quality than Basabe (Reed/Fisher/Paulino) + a lottery ticket in the bottom of a team's system Teoscar Hernandez reminds me of Luis Basabe, but further along in his development. Houston likely won't want to pay the prospect price it will take to land Q, even if they really should consider it strongly

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 11:31 AM) Similar to Rob's post covering Lopez and Dunning, here is the deep dive into the back end of the Sale deal - Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz. Includes video, as well as a quote from Nick Hostetler. If Basabe can improve his hit tool he could be an excellent prospect Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 55 | Run: 60 | Arm: 60 | Field: 55 | Overall: 50 He is above average in every other skill and is only 20 years old. There is plenty of development and projection left, but this is exactly the sort of player the White Sox should gamble on in the back end of trades that could end being a mlb regular

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) It's official - 5 years, $82.5 million for Fowler + full no trade clause. Congrats to Fowler as his recent play earned him that payday Personally I would not have given out that contract to a player after a career year Fowler is around a 2 WAR player due to poor defense, which is not likely to improve age 30-35

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:04 PM) I want Reed, Martes, Tucker and Fisher for Q. I think that's fair value for both sides. Anything more than Martes, Reed and Tucker would be a big overpay for Houston Reed would likely still be a top #75 prospect right now if ranked We can ask for Reed/Martes/Tucker/Fisher, but no team will gut their farm to that extent

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 12:16 PM) Yep, and Abreu is under team control for three more years, but he's year-to-year now that he opted out of his contract and into arbitration. That's about as low-risk as you're going to get for somebody with Abreu's offensive output. So it totally makes sense to keep Abreu around until his skills diminish or the Sox stumble upon a better long-term option for 1B. Unless the return for him is excellent then I would keep him and see if he can recoup some value He could be one of the best bats available at the deadline for a contender

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) Not sure if it was posted but baseball tonight suggested a trade: Houston gets: Q Sox get: Martes, Reed, Daz Cameron They went around the table and said who says no and everyone agreed it's was a perfect trade. I know everyone wants Tucker but would you be okay with this? They said Martes is the best prospect so we would get another top prospect plus Reed and Cameron (who's Mike Cameron's son). Why should the White Sox settle for less? They don't have to trade Quintana unless they are getting outstanding value for him The drop off from Tucker to Cameron is significant. Heck the drop off from Tucker to Fisher is significant as well.

QUOTE (Ro Da Don @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 11:47 AM) Daz Cameron is absolute trash. Nothing but a set of tools. He typifies the old kind of Sox draft pick who is just not a ball player. I want nothing to do with Daz Cameron. Daz Cameron's inability to hit brings big question's into his ability to advance up the ladder. Tools don't matter if you can't get on base

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 11:33 AM) Not sure if it was posted but baseball tonight suggested a trade: Houston gets: Q Sox get: Martes, Reed, Daz Cameron They went around the table and said who says no and everyone agreed it's was a perfect trade. I know everyone wants Tucker but would you be okay with this? They said Martes is the best prospect so we would get another top prospect plus Reed and Cameron (who's Mike Cameron's son). I would insist on Tucker being in that package over Cameron by a considerable amount Reed still has value, but his stock has taken a significant hit with such an awful 48 game mlb cup of coffee. Martes/Reed/Tucker is a deal I would accept

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:59 AM) Yeah it would be a quantity discussion for sure and depend on how much the White Sox valued a player that they chose not to select in the first round just 6 months ago. I would much rather land 2-3 elite prospects than take a quantity deal for Q

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:47 AM) They also are a landing spot for Abreu. I'm not sure they have the prospects to land Q though. Seattle does not have the prospects for a Q deal. I liked Lewis in the draft, but he took a big injury during the season and who knows how the recovery will go?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:28 AM) I had to Google his name because, like you, I had no idea why I knew that name lol Reetz is years away from the majors and not a significant trade chip at this point. Batting .230 in A ball (admittedly with solid OBP numbers...but that will likely evaporate with a move to high A or AA where the pitchers have far better control) with average defense I doubt he makes it to the majors without big time improvement in contact

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 10:29 AM) They already cost themselves Sale by not including Bregman. Now they might possibly cost themselves Quintana by not including Tucker +. If I was an Astros fan, I would be pissed at my GM. It is going to take more than Tucker to land Quintana. With 4 years of control I'd be looking for a return similar at Quintana, two elite prospects (Martes is similar to Kopech in value, Moncada is a better prospect than Tucker by a considerable amount) I'd be looking for a Martes/Tucker/Reed package in return for Quintana

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 08:52 AM) Well, the crazy thing about Anderson is his value may be tied to his defense. The hope with him is he was so raw and moved so aggressively, he's never had a chance to build at any level. We'll see how he does. His hands are so fast and strong I'm optimistic. Anderson has hit for average at every level he has been at, likely due to his plus speed If he can hold up the plus defense from last season he will be at least an average mlb starter, which is very valuable at SS

QUOTE (miracleon35th @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 09:30 AM) Nationals rumored (by Nightengale) to be interested in Robertson (if they do not get Kenley Jansen (who they cannot afford) and obviously, if the Sox don't get offered more. I'm now wondering what they have left in their farm system that the Sox would want and what would be fair? Pick up Robertson's remaining Contract plus Robles to the White Sox? Unbelievably, there may be a larger market for Robertson who some of us thought would not be garnering much trade interest. Robles for Robertson would be a fireable offense if I were the Nats owner The best we can hope for would be Fedde + pick up the remaining contract as of right now Robertson's value might be best at the deadline, or my plan would be to unload Robertson and his contract this offseason (which the $ owed to him does not seem as expensive as it did a few years ago) and let Jones take over as closer. Then if Jones does well we ship him out at the deadline for a nice package to a contender

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Nov 29, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Why would I be trolling? The KBO, while more hitter friendly than MLB, isn't t-ball. He put up MVP numbers there. Comparing him from 5 years ago to now is ridiculous. A 25 year old with no experience and a 30 year old with plenty of experience are completely different entities. He is worth the $5 million a year gamble and it wouldn't surprise me if he put up really good numbers in Milwaukee. He was the perfect fit for the Sox and they passed on him. I would not want to sign him to a three year deal at all. Not because of the money, but the years Meh, while not T-Ball putting up huge Korean league numbers does not impress me when translating that to the major leagues. The pitching staffs are so much deeper and better at the mlb level it's hard to compare MVP numbers there to a solid season here.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 9, 2016 -> 07:54 AM) 2018 will probably be the worst year of the rebuild, as the players we are bringing in will start getting to the majors for the most part. Too soon to evaluate where we are at in the rebuild two seasons in. Our payroll will be very low and we will have money to spend, but I am always leery of the mega contract guys. Far too often it ends up not being worth it. We need to tank for top draft picks and rebuild through a mix of trades, drafting, free agency, and player development. I'd be willing to pay for a few bats, but idk how realistic Harper or Machado is

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 8, 2016 -> 06:56 PM) I only know him for that fight with Odor. Our options are pretty sad right now at catcher