shysocks

Russell Martin, folks. Not Wilson. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 10:49 AM) I am sure the Red Sox don't regret hanging on to Big Papi. One, I said after a career year; Ortiz had a typically Ortiz year in 2011, his age-35 season. And two, Ortiz signed a 1 deal after that season for about $15M, followed by a 2/$25M contract. Maybe that's more an indicator of what VMart should cost, but it'll be more. QUOTE (VAfan @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) For all those railing against V Mart, what other lefty free agent can we sign who is (1) younger, (2) just as consistent throughout his career, and (3) cheaper than V Mart? That player likely does not exist, or we would be debating him instead of V Mart. If a guy fulfilled (1) and (2), then (3) wouldn't be possible. So that player definitely doesn't exist. But others have named alternatives.

QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 12:35 AM) Three 163's possible... Royals win/Tigers lose Mariners win/A's lose Pirates win/Cardinals lose Make it happen. ANARCHY!

Everyone in my section thought Reinsdorf was gonna give the last out ball back to Paulie, so it got a good laugh when he said he was keeping it. It was a great time, and seeing it filled up made me yearn for playoff baseball.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 27, 2014 -> 05:49 PM) If he's going to cost way more than I suggested then don't sign him. I'm just saying if the risk is limited to three years, I'm willing to give him $15M per and lose a 2nd round draft pick. As I said before, it's possible he falls off a cliff, but so could any major league player. Adam Dunn was one of the most consistent players in major league history before we signed him. Do we just stop signing players over 30 years of age like Balta would do if he was GM? Hell no, you always take calculated risks if the reward can be significant. The offensive environment is way different today than it was a few years ago and Victor Martinez at 80% to 90% of his current production is still an impact bat. We have money to spend and a huge need for a left-handed bat. Keep Victor strictly at DH, give him a day off every couple of weeks and I'm feel pretty good about his odds of staying productive over the next three years. What I find amusing is people are so risk adverse against signing older free agents, but would prefer to wait for this magical core to come up through the minors and fill all our remains holes. IMO, the biggest risk we can take right now is wait much longer to supplement Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Abreu, Eaton, & Garcia while they're still young, cheap, and healthy. Fills needs now as best you can and not waste the surplus value these guys are currently providing. I don't even know if you can expect 80% of his current production. His OPS is 100 points above his previous career high. Then add in the aging curve. I would not prefer to wait for the magical core; I want things to happen this offseason. I just don't think he's the right answer. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 28, 2014 -> 07:16 AM) I would like you to show someome who had Martinez's career numbers, and a guy who lead the league in Ops and OBP as a 35 year old, who becomes as useless as you claim the next 3 seasons. Paulie had wrist, back and hip problems, Maggs had a vertical fracture of his ankle, which supposedly is much mor of a problem than a horizontal fracture, and he wound up fractuiring again in the same spot, His lifetime slash line is also almost identical to Paul Molitor, except Victor's slugging is a little higher. Check out his 36-38 seasons. Can you find an example of a team that paid a guy that age after a career year and didn't regret it?

QUOTE (OsweGo-Go Sox @ Sep 27, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) Gregor just tweeted that Crede, Podsednik, and Kotsay won't make it tonight due to cancelled flights, thanks to that asshole in Aurora. :angry:

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 27, 2014 -> 12:28 PM) I don't see Martinez getting much more than 3/$45M. That's the exact contract Beltran got at basically the same age. If so, that's a no-brainer for us IMO. I'm perfectly aware that's he not going to repeat his current season and there is some chance he suddenly falls off a cliff, but he's such smart/pure hitter that I think he's got a good shot of remaining well above-average with the bat over the next three years. A 1-2-3 of Eaton-Semien-Martinez would make Abreu even more dangerous. Beltran was two years removed from anything resembling a season like the one Victor is having now. I agree that signing him at that price would be a good call. And when it's that easy, you can bet he'll get more money. Also, notice how Beltran had his worst season ever this year. The risks of signing a player that old are very real, guys.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Sep 27, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) What time does the ceremony start? According to a Doug Padilla tweet last night, 6:00. First pitch has been pushed back to 6:40.

My whole point is, take Jeter's career and transplant it to some other city. That is a hall-of-famer and a legend when you throw in all the postseason accomplishments. It is not somebody that 12% of the people voting in a dumb poll are calling one of the 5 greatest players ever. That's all I'm saying.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 03:06 PM) Cal Ripken sure managed it outside of NY, and with less post season glory. Ripken was a better player than Jeter.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 02:53 PM) He is still 6th all time in hits, 10th all time in runs, and last night was the first home game he ever played with the Yankees eliminated from postseason contention. 5 World Series wins, 7 World Series appearances, His peers hold him in very high regard. If he were a guy who was out seeking the attention, I could maybe understand some of the flap, but really he hasn't. I don't watch ESPN much when it's about baseball, but if it bothers people so much Jeter is getting praised, they could always change the channel instead of venting and being even more obnoxious the other way. I agree, that's what I do, if I'm in the rare position of watching ESPN in the first place. I acknowledge how great he was. A lot of the criticism isn't aimed at Jeter though, he's the collateral damage. I know there are exceptions. Do you think he becomes the legend he is if he makes the playoffs seventeen times for the Braves?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) I think Jim Kaat said last night he had 10 postseason series where he hit over .400. He also hit .200 or worse in seven postseason series and .250 or worse in twelve. Guess he forgot to be clutch for those. All we learn from this is that he was in the playoffs a lot, and we know his numbers there came out remarkably similar to his career line. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 02:24 PM) If Derek Jeter was a White Sox and received the same attention, the haters here would have a different spin on his career. Derek Jeter would need to have been about 40% better as a White Sox to receive the same attention. He had a great career and he is a no-doubt, deserving hall-of-famer, but he would not have near the status he does if he weren't a Yankee.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 01:39 PM) Yeesh that's kind of crazy how similar they are. I guess when you're in the post season so damn much your numbers tend to even out, still crazy though. It is odd. There's the disclaimer that you're facing better pitching on average in the playoffs, but Jeter is Jeter regardless.

Presented without comment Regular season: .309/.377/.440, 8.6 BB% 14.6 K% Postseason: .308/.374/.465, 9.0 BB% 18.4 K%

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) I don't think so either, intuitively, but that's why I was pointing to that article to show that over the last 15 years or so, that HASN'T been the case on the aggregate. That article specifically relates to offense, and I don't think any of us are really in disagreement about his offense. What I'd like to see, basically, is that same curve but expressed as a year-over-year change in percentage of games played at primary position instead of offensive runs. I don't know if that exists, but my guess is that it would look significantly different for catchers against the league average. To your point though, there are plenty of examples of catchers staying catchers well past the innings total that Martin has racked up.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) I would say calling him a top 25 position is still absurd. I definitely put him out of the top 100 for all players. That's why I said "weak" case. He's 46th in fWAR, but a bunch of guys ahead of him played before 1900 so they don't really count. And one was Pete Rose, and he's a jerk. And then, like, he was... clutch. Or something. Okay, you're right. It's absurd.

I said this the last time trading Quintana was brought up and I'll repeat it: It is a ridiculous notion. If one of the prospects we got back becomes as useful as Q, we'll have gotten lucky. But Q is already here and he's got a great contract. So why dial back the team's contention clock? It's pointless.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) But why would he be forced out of catching? Other than an unforeseeable injury. Nagging stuff. It's harder to stay healthy at 32 years old. Catcher is the most physically demanding position. I don't think I'm stretching here.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 09:48 AM) I just want to clarify that you're arguing that he'll be hurt a lot because he's a catcher, which is different than what I'm saying when I'm arguing that his skillset ages well. I'm talking specifically about his game-calling and pitch-framing, which studies have shown improve with age. When it comes to the things that decline with age, the difference between a good and bad catcher's throwing arm has been pretty convincingly argued as overrated (because pitcher behavior and catcher footwork more strongly correlate with CS% than catcher pop times: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-overrat...throwing-arms/), and catcher offense has actually occupied a substantially softer aging curve than that exhibited by other position players under the current offensive environment: I know you were referring to specific parts of catcher defense. I was specifically referring to catchers being forced out of position. I saw your data, but there are enough anecdotes that my point still applies here. Martin's high WAR is tied to him catching, and if he can't do that as often - which is not an outlandish claim to make - then he's a bad signing. QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 09:50 AM) So there's a case to be made that its a large upgrade that hangs on Martin repeating his best year of the last 7 and Flowers no longer improving, and that's compared with a case that to me seems stronger that it would be a small upgrade at a high cost. Thank you for saying what I was trying to say better than I said it.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) Barring a concussion or other injury, I don't know why Martin wouldn't catch 120 games a year, minimum. Yeah, he could break down, but so could any free agent. You don't justify not signing them because they could break down. Free Agent X is not just as likely to break down as a catcher over 30. Isn't that the reason we talk about age at all with free agents? It's not the only justification not to sign him - I pointed out paying for a career year and current roster construction and needs.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 09:35 AM) Honestly if it wasn't for Konerko's time having overlap with Frank Thomas, Paulie would be a legend on the level of guys like Aparicio and Appling in White Sox lore. If you take out Frank, Konerko is by far the best power (long term speaking) hitter in the history of the franchise, and no one else is particularly close. In a franchise that still talks about guys like Harold Baines and Dick Allen, Paulie blows them all away. I bet he will be 20 years from now. And not just because he came after them.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 09:09 AM) One of the polls on ESPN's homepage right now asks "where does Jeter rank among the best baseball players of all time" Options (with current results) Top 5 (12%) Top 10 (20%) Top 15 (12%) Top 25 (28%) Not in Top 25 (28%) Are these people delusional? 72% believe he's a top 25 player all time? You could make a weak case for him as a top 25 position player, but I won't try. Anybody who voted top 5 should have their Internet taken away.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Sep 26, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) The case against Martin is that you're paying him after a career year, so even if you (correctly) don't expect him to repeat 2014, it's still going to drive his price up. But to where? $15m per year? If so, you're paying a guy coming off a 5 win season (and a 4 win season before that) to be a 3 win player. Even at $15m per year, his production could decline 40% and you still just be paying a market rate asset. And his skillset ages well. His skillset is that he's a catcher, which doesn't age well. What happens if he can only catch 80 games a year from age 32-36? 50 games? It's been known to happen. Then you're paying $60 million for half a catcher and a DH with a career wRC+ of 106 that is greatly boosted by a career year at age 31, when you already have a 1-2 WAR catcher on the roster. If we splurge this offseason it should be on pitching or in the outfield. I would be infinitely happier with a Russell Martin signing than a V-Mart one though. But there's a chance Martin will get more per year, given his position

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 11:20 PM) http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/i...and-suspensions lol "Simmons is awesome and our franchise player but we needed to suspend him." That is where he completely lost me. This is the company that employs Skip Bayless for the express purpose of saying outlandish things every day on that garbage show. And again, this happened on a years-running podcast centered on sports gambling, which is illegal in most of the country, including the state in which the podcast is recorded. All the talk about standards is insulting and they should stop insulting us.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 10:19 PM) Damn dude. I don't like Jeter, but you straight up hate him. I think it's pretty cool he got a walk-off hit in his last home game. Is all the media going to be on his dick for the next week eternity? Yes. Do I hate that? Yes. But at the end of the day you have to admit Jeter's been a great player over his career and that's probably one of the best ways you can end a career (at home at least). Fixed. Still, I'll echo that a hall-of-famer hitting a walkoff in his final home game is an awesome story regardless of who it is.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 25, 2014 -> 11:10 PM) With tonight's loss..... The Sox SECURED a protected pick. We clinched something! Yay!!! Feels just as good as clinching the division. IF NOT BETTER.