Southwest Sider

But you say your prospects are untouchable for Cease, which makes no sense. He's one of the best players someone could pick up for their team.

There's a price in place and the price is the price. It's not a matter of bidding against yourself. It's a matter of pay the (what seems like a pretty reasonable) price.

This is a joke. You have a lot of good takes but this is not one of them. You assign way too much value to prospects and completely forget how valuable ANY pitching is, especially pitching with more than 1 year of control that has elite upside.

I love that Sports Guy is still here trying to convince us that the Sox should lower their demands. If the choice is to accept a package of mid prospects then what is even the point? Mid prospects won't move the needle and we can't develop them anyway. We need a teams 1st or 2nd best to get a deal. Cease should have a much better defense behind him next year and frankly it's worth the risk to just roll with him and see what he does. If an TJ knocks on the door oh well, life's tough and so is being a Sox fan. If he pitches same as last year than OK we can lower the demands to basically what is being offered right now. If he's lights out than obviously that is good. Service time does not matter because the trade deadline itself can create a ton of extra value and teams will still look at the trade like "I got Cease for my playoff run AND all of next year". Getz has no reason to lower his demands. And he shouldn't be scared to roll with Dylan because he might get injured. Let the teams who need pitching go ahead and sign subpar free agents and make subpar trades just to come calling again when the TDL hits. I believe Dylan Cease is an elite pitcher, will be again next year after the anomaly of 2023, and I think Getz believes that too.

Whatever. If people don't want to pony up a real prospect package f*** it and let him pitch for us. Someone will want him at the deadline with more desperation even if he pitches how he did last year.

Pretty much because expectations matched reality. Sadly. If new OC thinks Fields is fixable and can actually coach a QB let them spend the off-season together, draft MJH and o line with the 9 pick. f*** it at this point. The Bears are probably fucked anyway no matter what they do just like the White Sox.

Imagine BAL: Hey we want to trade for Cease Getz: Awesome, I was thinking the package could start with Holliday. BAL: Sorry, he's untouchable Getz: OK, how about Coby Mayo? BAL: We would trade him but not for Cease, he's too premium of a prospect. Getz: Weird... okay what about Kjerstad? BAL: Sorry, he's untouchable. Getz: OK, what about Cowser and/or Basallo? BAL: YEhhh.. maybe? ...But we think they are untouchable, can I interest you Joey Ortiz though? Getz: ...K bye.

Starting with #14 sounds fair. Who is that? ?

True enough but Quintana, while good, didn't have lockdown ace potential upside and carried significant downside risk. He basically never pitched up to his Sox stats with the Cubs, if I recall correctly (too lazy to look it up)

Thanks for the context sir. AND he had way more downside risk (in my opinion) than Cease does, a risk he also kind of realized. What it takes to obtain Cease is to blow Getz away with an offer. The BAL guy here doesn't get that, and keeps saying this dude and that dude are untouchable. Guys like Cease aren't always available, and he does not HAVE to be traded. Him being available in the first place negates any "untouchable" labels put on any prospect. BAL offering a bunch of mid and one pretty OK prospects and not budging "because no one has offered better" isn't going to get it done. Blowing Getz away gets it done.

EXACTLY Makes no damn sense to trade Cease for mid prospects because this org as a whole is like 10 years out from relevance. That's how lolbad it is. I frankly DGAF, the longer this goes on, the higher my personal price becomes. Now I don't want Mayo, I want Holliday. If Ruschmann was still a prospect I'd be demanding him. There's no reason to settle for "whatever the O's offer" because it just doesn't move the needle.

You forget man. Dylan Cease (a premium pitcher) isn't worth a "premium prospect".

Let's not forget Jose Quintana, a durable reliable solid pitcher, not unlike Dylan Cease returned 2 of the Cubs best prospects in Jimenez (who I guess has kinda busted but was a HUGE prospect) and Dylan Cease himself. BAL needs to GTFO with their prospect hugging untouchable nonsense. No one is untouchable if you actually want the guy.

You're insane dude. I think you forget how important pitching is and the premium the player who only plays every 5 games actually commands. To flat out say that most of Baltimore's top 5 isn't available for a durable, Cy Young potential pitcher for 2 years is just wild to me. Keep them, I hope they all bust and Dylan goes to NY somewhere and wins a Cy Young or finishes TOP TWO AGAIN. SMH

Don't forget Jace Fry and they could have gotten Seth Beer I guess.

Fields footwork is bad. He's not great against zone defenses and he's practically a lock to get seriously injured at some point, especially with refs apparently having zero interest in calling penalties on late hits against him. Him really leveling up this year would have been huge but now I think the bears need a QB. One game isn't a make all but a win and a dominant passing effort against the zone heavy Packers may go a long way toward swaying me. I'm just not sure he's the ride or die and give him a big contract. Sucks cuz I wanted MHJ.. I won't be mad if they go this route and run it back with Justin but he's got a lot to clean up still and I wouldn't be shocked if this was who he was.

Ehhh I'm coming from the standpoint that this franchise is likely a decade out anyway from any sort of relevance and if we're not really getting needle movers for Cease then what's the point? May as well roll the dice on an awesome first half and see if you can get someone's actual top prospects. No one should be untouchable for a guy like Cease, especially if he returns to 2022 form. May as well give him that chance.

This is what I'm saying. We are being gaslit into believing this is the best we can get. I'd rather hang on to Cease if we can't get any actual TOP prospects. MAYO OR BUST.

Exactly. I don't understand all the Sox fans willingness to accept high risk high reward (probably not needle movers) for a potential Cy Young candidate for 2 fucking years. It makes zero sense. All respect to the Os guys here but coming over and downplaying Cease because he was just "ok" on the team with the worst culture many Sox fans have ever seen in their life is asinine. #2 Cy Young doesn't happen by accident, it takes a full ass year of amazing pitching. He is going to be FINE on a team with actual structure and culture. He is more than capable and... if it ain't Holliday headlining this deal it better be fucking Mayo.

Mayo and Cowser. I'm down with this. f*** the shitty packages being badied about it. Sox need a needle mover and MAYBe they will be better 1 or 2 years sooner. Getz if he is smart knows he is absolutely fucked for awhile and trading Cease for whatever the f*** isn't going to change the trajectory of this franchise. O's want a world series. Os need another pitcher. Someone who can put up a Cy young season. Pay the f*** up then.

Exactly. I'd be a terrible GM insisting on Holliday but I'll let it slide for now and insist on Mayo. f*** the O's. Pay up if you want the dude. If not f*** off.

I don't give a s%*# what this guy says. If Mayo isn't available then why are we even entertaining Cease to BAL? I want 1 guy they don't want to trade for this deal to happen. I reiterate, this franchise is fucked anyhow, so may as well hold out for the moon and take the risk if no one pays.

I'm reading this thread and seeing stuff about no one from their top 5...which I guess also seems premature but who knows. All I'm saying is if Getz is holding out for the moon I don't blame him. This organization needs to be rehauled top to bottom. Succumbing to some middling package from Baltimore because they don't want to play ball makes no sense. Take the risk and see if he pitches lights out and someone gets serious at the deadline. If the worst happens oh well this team was entering probably an entire new decade of futility anyway.

Word. No one from their top 5 for a durable TOR starter with 2 years left? Even if he isn't an "ace" like 2022 there is a ton if value here just being dismissed because he didn't repeat 2022 with the worst group of baseball players I have ever seen. The Sox are fucked as a franchise anyway so if you can't even pry a decent package from Baltimore just roll with him and maybe try again at the deadline. If he goes down to injury oh well, a few ok to good Baltimore prospects weren't going to turn this s%*# show around.

I get that teams love their top prospects but you gotta give to get. There shouldn't be 3 "untouchables" in the Orioles farm system for 2 years of a Cy Young caliber pitcher.