Tony

Aren’t you supposed to gain wisdom as you get older?

OOTP 24

This would work...

Yeah, I’m not comfortable resting on an old phrase to base actual roster decisions on. I’ve said for the last year + none of this matters until new leadership is brought in. No matter what route they go, it’s all pointless. But I can’t get on board with “Hey, let’s root for them just getting lucky one year, maybe it all comes together like it did in 2005” That’s not good enough. Jerry only has so much time left, based on the current construction of this organization, I’d rather them move the spare parts for younger players that ideally someone else can leverage as the years go on, hopefully they hit on a few. That’s about the best we can hope for. Running it back with the same group next year is insane

I know you're just trolling now, but based on the last two years+, especially the results this season...what gives you ANY hope that 2024 will be a competitive year of White Sox baseball? The "core" is not good and there is nothing in the farm system to help. No one, and I mean NO ONE, is pining for another rebuild, especially at the hands of Rick Hahn. We've been down that road before. It's not going to work. But building a competitive roster to compete for a World Series isn't going to work either, he's not capable of it. The only hope is for everyone to get fired, outside of that, it's the same bullshit year in and year out. Why is that so hard to understand?

Wow that came out of no where.

This of course is after Rick said they wanted to hire someone with recent playoff success as a manager. They then went with TLR, but Rick was seemingly in charge of hiring whoever he wanted with this manager…and went with Pedro. Insane

Just because you don’t understand it, doesn’t make it stupid.

Eh, I don’t know how you salvage 2024. Ohtani isn’t saving the Sox. Say you went crazy, signed Ohtani. Brought back Gio and Lynn. You still would have huge holes at C, 2B, RF, plus Anderson, Moncada, Vaughn, Eloy all kind of being..bad. I honestly don’t see any scenario where the Sox are “good” in 2024. Like, 6-7 players would have to just have complete, out of their minds, top of their celling type seasons for it to be a good team. They just don’t have the bodies.

This is the main reason the window was always going to be 2020-2023. You could see it coming years ago. If Crochet was turned into a starter and Kopech had developed the way they wanted, they would be in a decent spot, but the odds of both of them developing was always a longshot. There weren’t many circumstances Gio was going to be resigned and Lance Lynn is going to be 37 in 2024. Again, that’s why all of this is pointless. The window is closed, there is absolutely no pitching depth in the organization, and Rick will seemingly be tasked with rebuilding the rebuild. Never been a worse time to be a Sox fan.

This is an absolute crock of s%*#. The Indians, Twins, Brewers, Rays, f***, the Marlins, have way harsher payroll restrictions than the Sox and have had way more success than the Sox/Hahn. Not being able to sign a player for 300 million doesn’t mean consistent winners can’t happen. Far from it.

Kind of agree. I'm sure he won't because it's the Sox, but fun to have a unique guy in the system

Well said

Correct. It sucks being “this negative” but even seeing updates on Montgomery, Schultz….who cares? There is ZERO evidence that 1. The Sox FO knows how to develop and create consistent contributors to the ML Team 2. Even if they accomplish No. 1, there is no evidence to tell us the Sox can do it enough to field a competitive team for any length of time. It’s all pointless. We’re stuck in a perpetual cycle of suck. You want to have faith in this organization? Fine, totally your choice. But it’s totally devoid of any evidence, history or facts based on what has taken place on the field the last decade+

We only know so much, but seemingly, we can piece together a few things. - Coming off the World Series in 2005, the Sox had the 4th highest payroll in 2006, behind the Yanks, Red Sox and Angels - In 2022, the Sox came in with the 7th highest payroll, at 203,205,326..according to Spotrac. The point is, Jerry will spend in the upper echelon when the team is in a good spot and there is buzz around the team. Now, we also know what he won't do. He seemingly won't go over 5 years with a pitcher, and signing a 300+ million dollar player seems unlikely. We also don't know what he is comfortable with/willing to spend on internals like scouting and analytics, but I tend to believe he would mostly leave that to the President/GM of Baseball, assigning them an overall budget and determining where that money needs to go. Those are absolutely hurdles that any GM would need to leap, but there are plenty of "successful" GM's that have those same limitations placed on them every year, often times much worse. The Twins, Indians, Rays, Brewers, etc all have way harsher payroll restrictions, yet have been wildly more successful than the Sox over the last decade+ My point is building a successful, consistent and good baseball team is possible under the "limitations" Jerry sets. Certainly harder than someone like the Dodgers, Mets, Red Sox, Yankees...but I believe it absolutely could be done. Rick is very bad at his job, and Jerry continues to let blind loyalty destroy his legacy. Where we sit today, I no doubt hold Jerry/Kenny/Rick all responsible, where the blame goes doesn't really matter at this point because we suffer no matter what. I'm just saying I believe from a pure baseball standpoint, Rick has hurt this team more than anyone else.

I believe there are individuals that could succeed as the GM under Jerry, but as we all know, those individuals won’t be hired.

37-52

This sounds fairly accurate, and awful.

I like him, and actually thought he was a decent option for the Sox in RF to open the season. I was responding to the comment I quoted. However, the point remains the RF has been a gigantic hole for the Sox basically since Jermaine Dye left the Sox.

Few days old but didn’t see it

So not only did Colas not work out for the Sox in the first half of the season, the only reason he broke camp with the club was because the Sox made zero effort to upgrade RF in the offseason and put all their eggs in the preverbal "Oscar Colas basket" when he clearly wasn't ready. They're really fantastic at compounding their own self-inflicted wounds.

How will 2023 be any different, with this season being far worse than 2022?

I call major bullshit here. There is FAR too long of a track record from Jerry-Kenny-Rick to tell us the same type of moves would have been made with AJ Hinch in the dugout, or Ozzie Guillen, or Tony La Russa for that matter. How much influencer on the roster do you believe Pedro has? The same “core” of Anderson-Moncada-Eloy-Grandal-Robert-Gio-Cease-Lynn-Kopech-Hendricks would all still be here, and unless Hinch convinces Jerry to start signing 300 million dollar players…the results wouldn’t be much difference. Who is sitting on the bench is far from the biggest problem in this organization.

I don’t blame Pedro playing them, I agree generally you would have to think someone like Tim figures it out at some point. But that doesn’t mean you bat him 2nd because that’s where he had success 3 years ago. Really? The manager is there to put his team in the best position for success. But because Tim has “tenure” with the Sox, results go out the window, he’s earned that 2 spot. f*** that.