soxforlife05

QUOTE (daggins @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 06:18 PM) The Red Sox are 16th in fWAR for pitching. Not great, not awful. Price/Wright/Porcello is a fine trio. They definitely need a mid-rotation guy. But Chris Sale? They could use those chips to improve someplace they really need it, like, say, catcher. Hmm who could they get to fill in there? The Rangers and Pirates are at 21 and 28, respectively. That is bad and REALLY bad for contending teams. I think the Red Sox would be more likely to trade for a guy like Q. A team that is a wild card contender will make a big splash/overpay for Sale to go for a championship. If we go the minor league route and get some great talent evaluators we might be able to get 6-8 guys back. Hopefully 1 would be an all-star and 2 more would be regulars. Could solve 1/3 of our lineup and slot in Anderson/Eaton as vets with Collins/etc coming up through the system and supplement with a big bat at 1B/DH and OF down the road and that could be a pretty good team.

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) This times a thousand. Hahn is a privileged dude from Winnetka who has been in over his head as a GM since day one. He is most likely a very smart dude, but his results as a GM are pretty terrible. A lot of these brainy guys just are not suited for the top roles because they can't think out of the box or in abstract terms. Sure they may be great rote memorizers/walking encyclopedias but that gets you nowhere in the real world.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 03:22 AM) Pre 2013, you would have been able to say premiere starter. Pre 2014, maybe... 2016, not so much. He's a so-so 3 or a very good 4 on most contending teams at this point. Not on a contending AL team. On an AL team he's a 5 at best and a pretty bad one at that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 10:23 PM) Hahn is great at two things. 1) Contract negotiations with younger players in pre-arb. 2) Speaking to the press without saying anything at all, which comes from his Harvard Law School training Everything else, not so much. What's going to be really hilarious will be Hahn getting fired and JR deciding to "save" Ventura because the team's playing relatively well in the other games NOT started by Shields. It sounds like Hahn would be a better sports agent than GM

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 21, 2016 -> 12:11 AM) This was a really well-played game. You can't accuse this team of not wanting it. It didn't look like they wanted it in the 9th. Luckily for them the Red Sox choked.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 09:43 PM) I want to say that this might turn the team around, but I truly doubt that. The game with the Albers double didn't do that so I'd say you're grasping at straws

Ventura has 9 lives

Poopie Dukie on to give up the game

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:39 PM) I've never seen a player have such rough luck with a baseball than Avila It's not bad luck he just sucks

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 20, 2016 -> 08:13 PM) I want Jay Bruce on this team Ugh another overpay for a mediocre veteran having a career year. No thanks. I've had enough of the Reds players.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 02:19 AM) This may sound dumb but will Shields retire if he has another ridiculous start or two? I mean cmon. He's WAY worse than Danks. He's actually worse than Latos. Will he retire? It's not out of the realm of possibility he's done. The amount of money he makes is kind of inconsequential right now. I mean he can't get anybody out in the big leagues. Would he agree to a month-long minor league rest/rehab? I want him the hell off the MLB roster. He would probably just opt out after the season and retire if it's going to happen.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 10:17 PM) Some here prefer to believe if the White Sox fans were more loyal, the White Sox SURELY would have made the playoffs in 2010 and 2012 and even this season, but the fans have handcuffed Hahn and forced him to make bargain/value deals for the likes of Jackson, Navarro, Avila, Gonzalez, Latos, Rollins, Shields, etc. Of course, conveniently overlooking the fact that signing Alex Gordon OR Justin Upton this offseason would have been completely disastrous for the franchise as well. And even Cespedes wouldn't be enough to cover up all the other holes on this team, fwiw. That would have left no money available for any more moves. We shouldn't be needing to sign 7+ free agents in an offseason. The point of free agency is to add one or two players that will put you over the top when you have a contending team. Unless you have one of the top 5 payrolls in baseball to work with, it should not be relied upon. Even teams who poured tons of money into free agents like the Yankees have started to take a step back and place a greater focus on developing talent. The over reliance on free agents is indicative of a long term failure in player development.

The Cubs are actually one of the best reasons historically speaking why blind loyalty to a baseball team enables mediocrity to persist.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 11:36 PM) Everyone saw this coming. People that do other things for a living and casually pay attention to baseball saw this coming. What did Erik Johnson do to this FO and why do they believe someone's name entitles them to $9m/per while guys making 5% of that are deemed useless almost immediately. This was the straw that broke the camel's back. They just made the decision he didn't have the stuff to get big league hitters out, without even giving him an entire season to see if he could improve as a 5th starter. Very possible he could've developed into a #3/4 if they had patience with him. Certain players in this organization get ridiculous amounts of chances at the major league level while others get one or two brief appearances in the majors before they are thrown to the scrap heap.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 09:05 PM) Look at some of the recent winners around baseball (even tonight). Junior Guerra was in our system and let go. Anyone could have had Dustin McGowan. Feldman with the Astros. Yovanni Gallardo. Lincecum. Edinson Volquez. Colby Lewis. The only pitcher that might have been a WORSE decision than Shields was/is arguably Ubaldo Jimenez. Even the O's announcers really detest him. Statistically, it's almost impossible for scouts and a GM to be so wrong so often. Actually Ubaldo is like a worse version of Javy Vazquez. He'll throw 4 innings of no hit ball then give up 7 runs the next inning. Shields is worse because he's a gas can from the first pitch every time.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 01:07 AM) Uh, yes... If you're rebuilding and wanting top prospects that can influx a roster in 2 to 3 years, you HAVE to trade your most valuable players. If we traded Sale we could get a teams top 3 prospects and a curent major league young controllable player. If we traded Q we could get a teams two prospects and at least another lower minors 5 - 10 ranked guy. If we traded Abreu, there's another top prospect and two lower level 5 - 10 guy. Just those three would bring back at least 5 or 6 roster spots for 2018 or 2019. You then supplement that with FA spending. If you're going to sell - then f***ing sell. We've been through this debate since 2007 and what you're suggesting hasn't worked for 9 years. When is enough enough? Exactly haven't they tried the halfway rebuild thing already? It didn't work. Need to clean house. Get good value for Sale and Q before they end up with a serious injury. It's probably the peak of Sale's value this year anyway you could probably get a haul at the deadline or this offseason.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 10:46 PM) We're the patsies of the Central. Sox are officially a clown team. They've been the worst team in baseball for over a month now. They're not going anywhere. Time to start a huge rebuild/reload. No need to fire Robin now but work on a manager for next season while trading off everybody except Sale and Quintana and Abreu, same scenario as after last season. Trade everybody you can besides those 3. No, no halfway rebuilds. Blow it all up and start over. They have shown they can't pull off a rebuild on the fly.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 08:30 PM) We've seen Robin say things after games, and then plans change. Go ahead. Start him on Thursday afternoon at Fenway. He might not get out of the first inning next time.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 19, 2016 -> 12:23 AM) Look at this realistically. You hold onto Q, Sale, Eaton, Abreu and Rodon, what do you have left that provides any value for the organization? Frazier and Cabrera have some decent value, but not a ton to where you can build up the rest of the line-up around that core. Can you convince other GM's that Frazier will automatically return back to his first half 2015 version in the NL? Same case with David Robertson, but you're not getting to get blown out of the water for a semi-elite closer making elite closer money. Maybe if the Yankees pull Miller/Chapman off the market, Robertson becomes more valuable....and maybe the Astros' bullpen stays intact with them getting back into the WC race. You'll get a collection of nice pieces that will populate the 6-10 spot on our new Top Ten list and give it some real depth again, but if you're making trades for MLB-ready players, they're more like the equivalent of Avi Garcia or Lawrie. After that, who are you willing to trade? Nate Jones? Our catchers and bench have no value, and Saladino has more value to the Sox than to other teams, but the only real solution is to start selling from those five players who have the most value or you're just changing deck chairs on the periphery. I'd be willing to trade anyone except Anderson and Rodon. This team is not going anywhere for at least 4-5 years assuming we actually get some key pieces to a future contender back in trades and draft well.

Can we get Latos back?

QUOTE (Insp @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 08:06 PM) How has Frazier fallen so far so fast? He was hitting under .200 earlier in the season I think.

Playing the pitching matchups in a 13-2 game. Gotta love Robin lol

You know it's bad when their #9 hitter is a double away from hitting for the cycle

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 07:19 PM) Pick one: James Shields: A) starts at Fenway Thursday B) goes on the DL with a bogus injury. C) makes a trip to the pen He'll make 2-3 more starts then go on the DL the rest of the year with a bogus injury. Hopefully he opts out and retires this offseason.

Albers is the next up to be DFA.