soxforlife05

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 06:27 PM) Frazier's down to .200 and sinking like the Titanic. Another NY Times possible feature story, to go along with Q and James Shields. Sale's theoretical Cy Young is boring, comparatively. They are going to handle Frazier exactly like they did the Swisher trade. Trade for Frazier at the peak of his value then dump him at the low in his value and get literally nothing in return. Then he'll go back to being a solid regular.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 05:14 PM) Two starts. Calm down. 4 starts in a row bud. SEA, WSH, DET, CLE

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 05:11 PM) If you take away all of John Danks' bad starts the last couple of years, he easily wins the Cy Young and gets a contract extension from Hahn. Wasn't Shields supposed to "eat" innings? He only ate 1.2 innings in this one. The game was over at 8-0 why not just leave him out there?

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Jun 18, 2016 -> 04:33 PM) Shields is the worst pitcher I have ever seen. Bring back Danks! B-b-but if you take away his bad starts he has a 3.06 ERA

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) You are selectively looking at stats to fit your narrative. In my case I have a decade of stats, versus the last three starts that are poisoning the well. As to the unrelated second part about Latos, I didn't cut him, so I can't speak to why the White Sox did. But if I had to guess, my guess would be they are looking at the fact that he was pretty bad in 2015 as well, plus the fact that it wasn't just two or three bad starts in a row. He actually put up 6 out of 7 non-quality starts in a row. Latos being cut also probably had a lot to do with Gonzalez having pitched better than he had, plus James Shields pretty much being a done deal. Now we need to take away another one of his bad starts from consideration to get to that magical 3.06 ERA. Wanna just admit that you're wrong yet? Or double down on this insanity.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 06:55 PM) The trophy generation has spoken. When you run a baseball team like a small market team in a major market like Chicago, expect some backlash from the fans when the team sucks for decades at a time.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 11:48 PM) I honestly think advanced scouting might be our worst area as a team/organization. It is amazing how many average to s***ty players just dominate this team consistently at the plate and on the mound. We can face guys with 4+ ERA's and get dominated, we can face a guy for the 3rd time in a month and get dominated every time. Our hitters have no approach towards certain pitchers and I think it all starts with scouting and how our hitters are preparing to face a pitcher. Or maybe it's that the players just don't care to look at the scouting report?

Left Quintana in to give up the lead? Not surprised but can't really argue given how bad the bullpen has been.

QUOTE (ronkark @ Jun 17, 2016 -> 07:31 PM) He forgot how to hit the 2nd half of last year in Cincinnati. And we thought it a good time to give up 3 prospects to get his declining arse over here. I had no problem with that trade. Sold high on what looked like a AAAA guy who had 1 good month in the bigs.

Doesn't make sense. We signed Morneau.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 03:40 PM) Here's what I won't admit. That James Shields should be released after 3 bad starts. Latos and Shields recent history are not apples and oranges. There should not even be a debate about releasing him. He never should've been traded for. And to make matters worse we are stuck with him for 2.5 more years.

Southsider2k5 is to James Shields as Obama is to Radical Islamic Terrorism If you do not identify the problem, you cannot solve it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 03:23 PM) You are selectively looking at stats to fit your narrative. In my case I have a decade of stats, versus the last three starts that are poisoning the well. As to the unrelated second part about Latos, I didn't cut him, so I can't speak to why the White Sox did. But if I had to guess, my guess would be they are looking at the fact that he was pretty bad in 2015 as well, plus the fact that it wasn't just two or three bad starts in a row. He actually put up 6 out of 7 non-quality starts in a row. Latos being cut also probably had a lot to do with Gonzalez having pitched better than he had, plus James Shields pretty much being a done deal. And how are decade old stats relevant for a pitcher way past his prime and clearly on the decline? I compared Latos' performance to Shields the same way you did for an apples to apples comparison. Latos was as good if not better than Shields 4-8 years ago too. Look at his stats with the Reds and Padres. Here's what you won't admit, they are both way past their primes and done. It's just the front office was dumb enough to take on 2.5 years of salary and give up prospects for one of them.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 15, 2016 -> 07:55 AM) 3 starts ago James Shields had a 3.06 era. Literally half of the earned runs that James Shields has given up this entire season, were given up in his last 3 starts. (23 of 45) That doesn't scream gradual decline. That screams red flag. For refernce's sake, since everyone love to point at John Danks as some sort of reference point for suck, the most ER he ever gave up in 3 consecutive starts was 17, which happened to be right before he had shoulder surgery. You're selectively looking at stats just to fit your narrative. Latos gave up 16 of his 31 runs this season in 3 starts and was DFA. Why doesn't he get a pass as well? If you are going to "take away" the 3 worst starts from Shields, you have to do it for every pitcher.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 10:26 PM) Erik Johnson started 19 games for the White Sox at the major league level, put up a 4.73 ERA, a 5.82 FIP, a 5.01 xFIP, a league average strikeout rate (7 K/9), a below average walk rate (4.5 BB/9), and his fastball velocity maxed out at 92, in 2013, in 5 starts. If the White Sox miss Erik Johnson that badly, they can probably trade for Dylan Axelrod. And he never got a fair chance. No, Greg. Shields 5.45 ERA looks so much better Those starts were across 3 seasons. And it's not like our guy who replaced him (Danks) was any better. But we'll trot guys like Shields out there in their age 36-37 season just because they are paid the most. So basically, to have any prayer of contention in the coming years, Fulmer will need to come up and be a #3/4 caliber guy from day one. The question is, if we can't afford to cut loose bad players who are paid a lot why are we aggressively trading for wild cards with a financial commitment lasting 2-3 seasons? Organizational philosophy here is terrible.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 08:36 AM) Completely disregarding the initial post, realistically, something is going on with Shields. My guess is that he is tipping pitches. Go back to truly bad pitchers, such as John Danks, and they didn't get hit nearly as hard as Shields has been getting hit. He is getting hit like people know what is coming. My hope is that because Shields got better as the game went on, that means he is figuring out whatever is wrong. We'll see. He's just getting old and he's not very good anymore. No need to make excuses. He just straight up sucks and it's sad that the management of a major league baseball team could not see that. They even had the opportunity to change their minds after the epic meltdown against Seattle.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 06:16 PM) It wasn't going to happen. EJ was not a Cooper guy. Note Cooper gave Noesi more opportunity- much more - than EJ. And White Sox pitching is Cooper's world. But the strange thing about that when they dumpster dive is none of those "Cooper guys" that ended up failing have overpowering stuff either. From this year alone, Miguel Gonzalez and Latos. Noesi as you noted. And others.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 04:25 PM) Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks. No way this front office will DFA him after they just traded for him. Their egos are way too big for that. If he continues to be worse than Danks they will probably stick him on the 60 day DL and try again next year.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 14, 2016 -> 04:25 PM) Sox are so dysfuctional. They are gonna let Shields go out turn after turn and pitch way worse than Erik J would have. Dumb. Erik never had a fair chance here. Shields blows. He's worse than Danks. I just could never understand why they couldn't just slot EJ as the #5 for a full season and just take our lumps with him and see if he can show any improvement. Never had more than 5 starts in any season.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 08:47 PM) I haven't read the early pages of the thread. I would think Shields got dissed. My only comment is the White Sox seem determined to waste at least $10 million. They saved it on LaRoche, who was so bad, then they turn around and give it to somebody who is worse than Danks (who of course also made big bucks through no fault of the Sox). But we need innings eaters once we do the fire sale. /sarc

QUOTE (CB2.0 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 06:49 PM) I want to read more about how giving up Erik Johnson, Tatis Jr, Latos, and $27M for Shields....was smart. Check the Shields thread I called this one dead on and was crucified by the loyalists on this forum.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 03:58 PM) "They are both fast and Eaton has been hitting the cover off the ball. Oh wait, no he hasn't" "You want guys up there who are ready to swing the bat and make contact." "You got to try new things to get the right lineup." "You gotta get Avi out there every day to get him going"

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 13, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) This is why you don't hire former players. First Ozzie canned and hated forever; now Robin. I do agree Robin must go, but it also is sad. I can't hate any manager who won a world series for the Sox.

Can't hurt I guess. Still need about 3 more bats.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 9, 2016 -> 12:57 AM) Robin survived the debacle in Kansas City in which we lost 3 games late in embarrassing fashion after losing 2 of 3 to KC in the Cell. Now I ask you, of all the low moments during this stretch of s***tiness, can Robin survive if perhaps the WORST thing that's happened to us all year happens this weekend. A pathetic Kansas City team (with no starting pitching and AAA ballplayers adorning the lineup cept for Salvy, Cain, Hosmer and Morales) is going to come in the Cell and sweep us, extending our misery vs. the Central. If we get swept by a KC team that has lost SEVEN in a row is that finally it for Robin? We've played so s***ty against KC that I can't imagine ANYBODY who is not a season ticket holder and I mean ANYBODY buying a walk-up ticket to any of the 3 games. So if we get swept, which I firmly believe we will, will Robin be fired?? Again ... think about what I'm saying. A KC team that has lost SEVEN in a row is about to sweep Chicago in the Cell. is that nuff to get rid of Robin? I'm convinced he's here till the end of the season. And that we'll keep trading prospects for veterans that can't help us. This cycle doesn't end until the team gets sold.