LowerCaseRepublican

The aid is mostly weapons and military tech. I'm just saying that we should shut off the $ faucet to Colombia too if we are serious about stopping human rights violations and we should go in and overthrow every government that is harming people (what about the US and their abuses to prisoners that have been found to be innocent? isn't that harming people) US intelligence officials were quoted in the Wall Street Journal that they were taking suspects over to countries where they didn't have Miranda rights so they could "pistol whip" (i.e. torture) information out of them. With the passage of PATRIOT II...anybody deemed "Subversive to the state" can be deported....Who is to say what subversive is? Protests? Boycotts? Sit-ins? An appeal to emotion by Bush is the last resort for his propaganda machine because he couldn't get the world to go to war any other way because he didn't have the facts.

Actually we have been bombing Iraq every few days per week for the past 12 years. The UN knows about it. One of the previous leaders of the Committee on Humanitarianism actually resigned from the post in protest of the US/UK bombings for the past 12 years. You should ask groups like Voices in the Wilderness who has been to Iraq. They'll tell you about how we've been bombing them for 12 years now. Bush I may have been a f***, but at least he respected international law enough to know that he couldn't topple a government legally. I guess that lesson got lost on his son.

Marino Cordoba and his organization for Displaced Afro-Colombians. How's that for proof. I had the honor of meeting him. He and a lot of the people in that organization lived in Colombia. He told stories of nearly his entire village being slaughtered by the paramilitaries (children and all) So, he was also targeted by the paramilitaries. He fled to the US and got in. It's a national organization, I am sure you can find more information on it. I'd give you more but I am at home now and left a lot of my research back at my place in Urbana for spring break. The drugs are being run by General Uribe and his paramilitary death squads too.

Thanks for the insult, 420. I know I must be doing something right when all you have is insults for your arguments. It seems by assuming war is the only answer, you're the one that claims to know all. March 7: Hans Blix quoted as saying that they were finding stuff and they were fine. But Bush wasn't content with that. He needed to bomb the s*** out stuff. The UN inspectors should have been given more time. It's that simple. Or how about the Bush regime telling the truth and not using plagiarized info from 12 years ago? There were various resolutions floating around the UN that were non-military and a vast majority of them called for the inspectors to be given adequate time. How's that for a reason?

I don't know if you read Defense Department documents from 1941 when they were discussing US involvement in World War II. I highly suggest you read them since they have been declassified. One that caught my eye was along the lines of "Many people will not support the increase of US spheres of influence in the world as a reason to engage in the war. The suffering of others MUST be shown. This will have the better propaganda effect." I think the same sort of reasoning is going on right now. I want to see the families on the news that have lost lives because of the US bombings from the past 12 years. I wonder how thankful they are for having the US roll in and bomb the s*** out of them again. If we are so intent on fixing human rights as well, then why so much aid to Colombia when we know of their human rights abuses? Wouldn't it be easier to fix that by shutting of the monetary faucet to them? I'm not saying Saddam isn't evil...he is. I just don't think that the usage of military force this fast without exhausting diplomatic solutions was good reasoning. There were other ways but our President didn't want to waste his time. I guess it's easy for Bush to wage war when he's not the one fighting.

ditto.

We let much worse human rights abusers go off on their merry way (i.e. Colombia) ::see other post about Colombia I wrote for more details:: But we give Colombia so much aid yet they abuse the most human rights. Why don't we invade them? Why aren't they on the government's anti-terror plan? We're going after Iraq because they can't fight back and they have oil. We continue to support ruthless dictators. The cost of this immoral, unjust and illegal war does not justify the end of ousting Saddam. The $80 billion cost, the lives of all that died, the trauma of families, rebuilding the infrastructure of a nation that has had so many people die at the hands of UN Sanctions and US bombing raids the past 12 years....what happens down the road when they democratically elect a person who embodies hatred of the US for all the destruction it has wrought on the country? Do we go in and topple him like we did to Allende in Chile when he was democratically elected?

March 7, Hans Blix was quoted as saying that Iraq was disarming. Why not let the weapons inspectors do their work? Oh yeah, cuz Bush had a hard-on for war. I ask again, if Saddam is so brutal, then why did we arm him? Waging this war is piss poor foreign policy. Saddam may be evil, but what about all the much worse governments that we continue to fund just because they are anti-Communist (i.e Colombia)....Colombia is a much worse human rights abuser than Saddam could ever have dreams about being. But Colombia is one of the top recipients of aid from the US and we also train their troops in the WHISC (#1 in amount of troops sent to the WHISC per year) Why don't we go overthrow Uribe then? He's a much worse dictator than Saddam...or maybe you just don't have compassion for the Colombians that want to unionize, criticize their government or even grow food? (Uribe gasses the peoples' crops if they are against his paramilitary death squads) I really don't understand how we got to be such a country that cares about human rights in the last year or two. Given our track record of getting into bed with bloodthirsty dictators, etc. I really have a hard time believing that this is about humanitarian purposes. Or if we are going to wage war, then how about the President tell the world the truth? Or maybe then he couldn't justify the war if he told the truth.

So you justify the spending of $100 million per test, plus all the technology that goes into it while there are people starving in the streets? 10 Nobel prize winning physicists have said that it is an impossibility for it to work correctly. I'd rather listen to the experts than the military industrial complex who just wants to line their own fat pockets.

I talked to people who helped to craft 1441 and also helped with 677, 678. (mainly Doug Rokke) and from what he told me in the writing of it and I assume that he knows what he is talking about because he helped write them, unauthorized force by any nation is not covered by the UN resolutions and also the explicitness of authorizing military force in these resolutions is not there. These resolutions don't make it a legal war. Why do we have to have a war criminal President? 420, tell me how it is not hypocritical punishing a country for violating UN Resolutions when we are violating not only UN resolutions but international law?

I never said having a great military is bad. I said that the arms race is bad. There is no more Soviet 'Evil Empire' for us to fight anymore. No justification for the Star Wars program. Do you think that Star Wars will stop suitcase bombs and hijackers with box cutters? There are crazy people in the world with weapons and are too eager to use them, one of them is sitting in the White House.

Violates: Article 2(4) of the UN Charter, Hague Convention on land warfare, Hague Convention on air warfare, the Treaty of Westphalia, US Army Field Manual 27-10 (1956), the International Declaration on Human Rights, the Genocide Convention, the 4 Geneva Conventions of 1949 and Protocol I thereof, the Kellogg Brand Pact, and the Nuremburg Judgement, Charter and Principles. But don't take my word for it. That's from former Attorney General Ramsey Clark and former World Court lawyer Francis A. Boyle.

Thanks for telling me how I feel...so the plans for urban warfare and the want to now carpetbomb Basra etc. How is that humanitarian for the Iraqi people? I'd post photos I have found of dead Iraqi civilians so far, but they are far too sickening. We needed the UN to make this legitimate. We have set the precedent for illegal vigilante justice. What kind of slippery slope could be disasterous. You may also want to read international law...what the Bush regime is doing is quite illegal and they have been warned of war crimes. Also, if we are intent on stopping terror, why don't we attack the nation that has violated the MOST UN RESOLUTIONS? You know why we won't? We give them arms and weapons.......it's Israel and Ariel Sharon can do no wrong in the US eyes. Except for bulldoze Palestinian homes, kill Palestinians with the IDF (note: I don't condone Palestinian suicide bombs) but I'd expect more from a sovereign nation's army than from a few zealots in Palestine.

I actually do donate blood at the school blood drives a lot (except when I'm sick and stuff and they won't let me) I've said before, I am a situational pacifist. In this situation, with the evidence provided by our President, it's not clear that war is the answer. I call my Senators and Representatives quite a lot telling them that I want them to do whatever the f*** they can to get our people back here to the states and not be fighting an illegal war over in Iraq. I think that is the most important thing I can do, petition my government with grievances to protect our troops. I know they volunteer. But that begs the question, how many volunteer with the intent of educational purposes and how many go to actively want to get in the military for the military's sake? I have met a lot of people, young and old, that have told me that they are in the military simply because they can get their college education paid for or that military law is gonna be a springboard for getting into a prestigious law school, etc. I've had recruiters come after me on campus before and even at my high school handing out the glossy bumper stickers for the Marines, Army, Air Force, etc. What's weird is looking their their recruitment ads, I rarely see white males in the photos anymore. Either they are actively targeting lower socio-economical minorities or there are just not that many whiteys in the military anymore. When one of the largest simultaneous protests occurs in the world, you'd figure that might send a message to the "Coalition of the Willing" (aka the US/UK and a bunch of nations who gave their symbolic support) that people support the troops enough to not let them die in this situation.

Actually the UN Sanctions have had a similar, if not greater hand in starving the Iraqis than Saddam could ever wish to have. I've stated before and I've stated again, if the countries in the region are not scared of Saddam and his supposed WoMD, then why is the world's only superpower shaking in it's boots? I never said that I support Saddam and I take offense at the claim. I said that diplomatic means should have been exhausted by our "President" before even putting the idea of war on the table. There are various diplomatic means that could have toppled Saddam and got the world community on our side for this, if a war was needed by that point. But no, Bush comes out with his "Axis of Evil" comment that was NOT cleared by the State Department telling them that he intends to bomb the s*** out of them. So, if you are a country with weapons, would you destroy them knowing full well that a superpower is intent on kicking your ass either way? Bush disappointed me by violating international law and the UN Charter. I really don't get how punishing a country for violating UN Resolutions by violating UN Resolutions ourselves gets us any higher moral ground in the world community. There is only one unelected leader with weapons of mass destruction that is hellbent on using them that I am afraid of....George W. Bush.

We have the largest military in the entire world. f***, the last time we updated our military spending...the update was higher than the total spending that the next 15 countries in military might spend all together on their militaries combined. In 1999, Congress asked the Air Force if they needed more refueling tankers. They said no and Congress authorized the purchase of 100 more. (that's bloat if I have ever seen it.) I was making a commentary about the world health care too. Like in the late 90s (can't remember the year off the top of my head) but Al Gore went to S. Africa and told them that they could not make generic versions of AIDS preventing drugs or import them from other countries or the US would cut off all humanitarian aid because the US drug cartels, excuse me corporations, wanted a monopoly market. We can cut Pentagon bloat and the military industrial complex. I mean, like Star Wars that has already been called an impossibility...but let's waste millions on that, or even MOAB...let's waste millions on that too. Especially when children are starving etc. etc. etc. In 2000, the Pentagon said their budget for 5 years, they were getting $2 trillion. The General Accounting Office said that if we wanted to fix all public schools, it would only cost $212 billion. Nice to know where our priorities lie though in this country. We have homeless people, starving children, failing schools, but at least we have our erection pills and MOABs!

The pro-war people calling protesters "un-American" for using American rights, that's hypocrisy at it's finest. Last time I checked, this country was founded on protest and civil disobedience. (Boston Tea Party, anyone?) Like Trent Lott said in 1999, "I can support the troops but be against the President". Anti-war protesters are not discounting peoples' feelings. How many troops do you know that WANT to be over there putting their ass on the line slaughtering Iraqis? I think I believe that number is ZERO. Nobody wants to go kill. And when our President Select lies to the world as a reason to send them off, if anybody is discounting the soldiers, it's Bush. The anti-war movement doesn't want to see our troops be forced to go over there and die because our President wants to lie to the world and become a international war criminal. If anything, the anti-war movement supports the troops the most because we don't see the need for them to risk their lives in this situation in Iraq.

Well, CK, Saddam wouldn't be armed with weapons if we hadn't sold them all to him in the first place, now would he? Who is to say that 1) the plant has made chem weapons, 2) that Blix and Co. (if given adequate time and not pressured by the West Texas moron) would have found more weapons (I personally believe they could have if given time...if there are weapons there) etc. The Bush regime case for war was inadequate and they sent people off to die anyway. Sickening...absolutely sickening.

A lot of food and other items like that were also banned from being imported into the country under UN Sanctions. That's why groups like Voices in the Wilderness have to smuggle it past US Customs and then smuggle it past the Iraqi government as well. The UN Sanctions also did a great job of emaciating the Iraqi people and f***ing them over as well.

The US doesn't have nationalized health care. We got a disease industry. I mean, we don't have cures for cancer, AIDS, etc. but at least we have a pill that gets people erections! Woohoo for American priorities! Yeah, I think that the money could be a lot better spent especially since Universities around the nation are having to make drastic budget cuts (I know that the U of I has to make massive budget cuts and we may lose area specific political science, all mid size lectures and a couple hundred T.A.'s may lose their jobs)

CK, there is a new book out called "The Best Democracy Money Can Buy". I have read a little bit of it, and it is a very weird read about the 2000 election. The author used FOIA and FL Sunshine Laws and got his hands on a lot of the voter rolls from the state of Florida. There are some weird anomalies in the rolls of people that were made ineligable because they were felons. There were LOTS of people taken off for "crime committed in 2005", "crime committed in 2012", etc. etc. etc. Most of these people were African American and traditionally, the trend is that African Americans usually vote Democrat. So, Bush is really a fictitious President. It's not so much the electoral college as it is that Bush and Co. (Katherine Harris was also a campaign director for Bush too...at the same time she was a Florida Elections official) f***ed with the voter rolls. But, hey, I am just a college student with too much free time to read books haha. But if you want a good book by an intelligent conservative (not like Rush, Mike Savage, etc.) check out "What's so great about America" by Dinesh D'Souza. It's a really good read from a conservative perspective that shows what is great about America.

"I can support the troops, but be against the President." - Trent Lott, in 1999 during the Kosovo conflict. I just can't understand how Bush thinks perpetual violence will bring peace. I just have anger that the Bush administration has lied to the world community and the American public about the reasons for war. First it was that Iraq had ties to Al Qaeda. But then the CIA and international intelligence could not find a link between them and if anything, they hated each other. Then, Bush said that it was because they had WoMD. But Blix could not find many weapons in his search and in conversations with Scott Ritter and Doug Rokke, they said that they probably had few working chem/biological weapons, if any. Also, let it not be forgotten that the only reason they had so many in the first place was because of Donald Rumsfeld and the US government selling them to him. Then, Mr. Bush said the war was about humanitarian assistance. I humbly ask Mr. Bush how humanitarian aid is having harsh sanctions imposed for the past 12 years that have killed over 500,000 children? How is it humanitarian aid to consistantly bomb the nation for the past 12 years and this has had many delegates in the UN labeling it "genocide"? How will we bring democracy to the country when your propaganda campaign tells people to leave Iraq? Is it not convenient that so many people in the Bush regime have strong ties to the oil industry? (Bush, Bush's dad, Cheney, Condoleeza Rice, etc. etc. etc.) Then, Powell's UN report was plagiarized from 12 year old information. I think I support the troops most when I look at this absolutely flimsy case for war and wonder how any person, in good conscience, could send their children to fight for these reasons. I am a situational pacifist, and I believe in this situation, our troops should not have been sent to fight there. The case for war has not been made and the case for sending our troops off to die has not been made. We as the public should value American and Iraqi lives so much more than to allow our West Texas unelected president with "Mad Cowboy Disease" to go off and send our troops into war with such flimsy evidence. I know many may say that Saddam is a ruthless dictator. I then ask you about the innumerable other dictators and harsh rulers that inhabit this world (many of which the US has and does continue to support). Are we to go destabilize various governments all over the world for this reason? The inordinate employment of violent means does not justify the laudible end of defeatin Saddam Hussein. Support the troops, bring them home from Bush's f***ed up oil war/power trip/wagging the dog from worrying about Osama bin Laden because they still can't capture him. It sickens me that this little chickenhawk in the White House can, in good conscience, send people off to die and he justifies it with lies to the American public and the world. f***ing sickening to me that one life had to be lost due to Bush's lies, let alone all the sacred dead of both sides that have paid the ultimate price in this war. Then again, I wouldn't expect much more from the governor of Texas who looked at death row clemency appeals for about less than 15 minutes on average.

I was asleep. I accidentally fell asleep. I've said before that they most likely don't have weapons and if they did, the inspections would have found them.

Dubya Bush was asked what his favorite childhood book was. He said "The Very Hungry Caterpillar". But this book was not first published until he was in college.

Most people also don't say their favorite childhood book is a text that was first published when they are in college.