LowerCaseRepublican

Their claims of pre-emptive war were not excusing their murder of the Jews...but it was their reasoning for plundering Poland, et al. the lands they conquered saying "If we didn't attack, they might have attacked us sooner or later".

Actually in 1998, the UN inspectors were demanded to leave by the UNITED NATIONS NOT IRAQ. I've talked to Ritter and Rokke, both were heads of the UN inspections teams during that time, so I know what I am talking about but thanks for playing.

did we prove it with the 12 year old plagiarized information? did we prove it with the lying of Iraq's links to Al Qaeda? The Bush administration has lied to us a lot and been called on it. They didn't prove a case that Iraq is an immediate threat...hell, even the neighboring nations are not afraid of his ass, but for some reason "the world's only superpower" is shaking in their boots. Actually we sold them weapons as late as 1988. And private corporations continued to sell them weapons into the 90s as well. I concur that our foreign policy in the region has been piss poor. But haven't we learned that governmental overthrows in the region to install US friendly regimes always backfire as well. I will be in the elections that Iraq will pick somebody the US won't like and we'll have to go in and overthrow that guy like we did to Allende. And if we want to get technical about nations who violate the most UN resolutions....the clear cut winner is actually ISRAEL...by a longshot. Only problem is whenever the rest of the UN brings resolutions condeming Israel or wanting to crack down on them for human rights violations, etc....the US vetos the resolutions no matter what. Then again, this war in Iraq violates the UN CHARTER.

I am saying that the "humanitarian" aid mentality smacks of hypocricy. Special ops like the aforementioned "Operation Wrath of God" could do the trick. Or even better, how about letting the UN inspectors ACTUALLY DO THEIR JOB AND NOT PUT TIM LIMITS ON DIPLOMACY! Blix said he was getting compliance and destroying the few weapons they were finding.

I love how you advocate the Nazi reasoning of pre-emptive war that was condemned by the world around 50 years ago. Bush couldn't prove the case to the international community because Saddam doesn't have weapons. What about Pinochet? He killed hundreds of thousands Argentinians but wait wait wait...oh yeah, the US put him into power. Or what about Hugo Banzer Suarez of Bolivia...oh wait, the US and Bechtel helped him to privatize the water supply and gave him the weapons to shoot protesters when they protested the price of water going up 300% (3 times their average yearly wage for 1 month worth of water). Or what about Pol Pot who killed millions of Cambodians? Or how about the Turks slaughtering our "good buddies" the Kurds? Or what about the Israeli Defense Force bulldozing Palestinian homes and running over pro-Palestinian activists with a bulldozer? Why invade Iraq when we have and continue to sit idly by in cases of human rights abuses like these, not even mentioning the multitude in Colombia....but our foreign aid to Colombia grows larger every year and so do the amount of their human rights abuses. Trust me, anything Colombia does puts Saddam to shame.

The US government is also not causing rampant death and destruction in the case of marijuana. They are just coming out with incredibly lame commercials.

And nobody give me the "I don't support the troops" BS. I support the troops a lot more than a lot of people because I want them to be safe and not to go off and be forced to fight/die in an illegal war against a country that has never harmed us. They shouldn't have to be out their risking, and for those that died, losing their lives just because Dubya (that f***ing chickenhawk) wants better approval ratings and oil fields.

We didn't mind when he did it in the 1980s. And we watched lots of other dictators kill their own people and we did nothing. I really can't believe the "humanitarian" aspect when we helped Pinochet, Roberto D'Aubuisson, Hugo Banzer Suarez, etc. etc. etc. who have slaughtered more people than Saddam could have ever hoped to. Oh yeah, and how many countries condemned the gassing of the Kurds when it happened? Yeah, that's right ZERO. There are non-war ways to oust him from power. I mean we've already lost 12 troops in one helicopter accident, 7 more missing and presumed dead from two UK helicopters crashing into each other, 4 more troops dead from rocket launched grenade fire, 2 killed in a firefight, and the journalist killed in the car bomb explosion. Not to mention the deaths on the Iraqi side. And this is only the beginning of the conflict. And now we "accidentally" launched a tomahawk missile into Iran. SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, SEND THEM HOME.

Once more filled body bags start getting shipped in, you too can be a peace activist.

http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comments.p...l?IDLink=472425 I don't know how many people frequent Fark but today one of the photoshop contests was a picture of Willie Harris from the White Sox. Thought we could all use a quick break from the war talk for a few minutes.

9/11 was the result of incredibly piss poor foreign policy. The mentality of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" led us to training, furnishing and arming many of the future Al Qaeda members when they were fighting against the Soviets. We armed Saddam with weapons because we had provided the Shah of Iran with a s***load of weapons...but he was overthrown in a coup. So we armed Saddam and used him to get Iran to use up their weapons. This whole thing of shortsightedness comes back to bite us in the ass all the goddamn time, yet we continue to do it anyway. I don't think we deserved it but it was pretty much a given that some sort of attack was coming because of our failure in foreign diplomacy. We pissed a lot of people off. Why won't the government realize that the homeland will be secure when we aren't f***ing people over (i.e. having American companies etc. allowing labor leaders to be killed like they do in Colombia at Coca-Cola, having Nike sweatshops, etc.)

If anyone, I would think you'd be with me on the Impeach Bush/Cheney/Ashcroft/Rumsfeld campaign...especially after the start of Operation Pipe Dreams which is SEVERELY cracking down on even minor drug offenses. But then again, why use facts when you can just call me a "f*****"? How very intellectual.

Why couldn't the Bush regime prove the case to the international community then? Lied in UN reports Plagiarized info from 1991 and tried to make it look like it was current Did their best attempts to railroad the UN inspectors Lied about Iraqi links to Al Qaeda They have done every possible thing imaginable to get us into this war. In the Nuremburg Tribunals, the Nazis claimed that their empire was going to face "possible invasion" so that is how they justified their invasions of Poland, etc. That was deemed a "crime against peace", the worst crime to be committed because it entailed crimes against humanity and war crimes. PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKES ARE ILLEGAL! We didn't think Saddam was so evil when we sold him the weapons he used to gas the Kurds! We didn't think he was so evil when we knew he was a maniac and we armed him anyway! Arming psychopaths and these short term orgies of feel good violence are only paving the way for more members of Al Qaeda and more terrorists. FIGHTING FOR PEACE IS LIKE f***ING FOR VIRGINITY.

If it bleeds, it leads. MSNBC has already said in their documents that got leaked that they are VERY apprehensive to show anything "Critical of the Bush regime and being anti-war" so of course they will show the VERY FEW violent protests to discredit the entire anti-war movement. NBC is owned by GE (a major weapons manufacturer) and GE gets editorial rights over the news. So of course they won't put anything on critical of the war because then GE won't be able to sell as many death weapons. After CNN's lying about the '99 globalization WTO protests in Seattle, they can't really be believed that much either...and don't even get me started on Faux, er I mean Fox News. The American media is owned by big conglomorate corporations who are looking out for their own interests in the news. They aren't going to show things critical to their interests. I'd figure that a "liberally slanted media" would portray the positive anti-war protests, break the story about how Powell's UN speech was plagiarized, et al. But that didn't and won't happen. What a liberal media.

Maybe you had one too many joints today, 420. We sold him the weapons. If he's got them, then Rummy has the receipts. Also, take into account that Doug Rokke and Scott Ritter said that Iraq had over 95% compliance in 1991-1998 until they and the other UN inspectors were ordered out by the UN. And according to our own CIA, it is astronomically impossible for them to have a working nuclear program and the sarin, VX, etc. all has passed it's shelf-life so it's goo pretty much. Tell me, 420, if you are the leader of a country...and a much larger country comes out and says "get rid of weapons or we will beat the s*** out of you" and then threatens you as the "Axis of Evil" and that they intend to oust you if you get rid of weapons or not, are you going to be apt to get rid of weapons? It's like the Yankees demanding to play the little league all stars but refusing to play them until they give up their gloves and bats. And if this war is so important and the threat so imminent, then why did the US and the UK find the need to lie to the US public so often and so very convincingly in order to galvanize support? Why couldn't they tell the truth if it was needed?

Nothing said France had to help us either.

It's a given in war that innocents will suffer. If not directly from bombs/shrapnel etc. etc. etc. harming them then it will be from the f***ed up infrastructure of their country that they won't be able to rebuild. How much do you want to bet that they'll be in debt to the International Monetary Fraud, er Fund and the World Bunk, excuse me Bank for years in the rebuilding process? We've already killed a 1/2 million of them and have been bombing them for 12 years anyways, so when can you declare that the violence of war started, you know? For all extensive purposes, Gulf War I never ended really. And the US media is s***ty. Very incredibly s***ty.

He's had a lot of people degrade him since he is part of Vietnam Vets Against War...most disproportionately conservative Republicans calling him "traitor", "commie", "pinko", "f*****", etc. So he's put up with a lot of s*** and I think is justified saying that Republicans like that guy, not all Republicans are motherf***ers. The ones that can call people "traitors" for only having a differing opinion...those are the motherf***ers.

Prayer and politics? Change your signname to sideshowrobertson It's a satirical spinoff of the actual Presidential Prayer Team (this is an actual organization that has 1.2 million people just praying for Bush) So we are playing off that and satirizing it more than anything.

Speaking of arrogant....

Clinton didn't flag wave and call people "traitors" to their face like this asshat did.

Ashcroft's new "PATRIOT II" scares the s*** out of me. It's beginning to look more and more like 1984. War is peace, slavery is freedom, etc. etc. etc.

by drowning him out wernt you supressing his right to free speech??? We were just louder. He could have kept screaming...we were all just singing at normal level.

HSC, I was just wondering what you and others on the board thought of the asshat that was calling a vet a traitor for being against the war. I didn't mean to change the subject but it REALLY pissed me off yesterday when that nationalistic fascist f*** did that.

I just loved watching the giant bus trying to do a U turn and getting stuck for a 1/2 hr. and they had to have a tow truck move it, haha. Another kickass part was there was 2 pro-murder of Saddam guys out screaming at the top of their lungs about. We (about 400 of us or so) gathered around them and started singing "Give Peace a Chance". We were all like arm in arm singing and the guys just gave up screaming cuz nobody could hear them over our singing, guitars, and bongos.