1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Meija was also able to play every day in the minors.

Was he an everyday C? That's sort of the point where is the harm in having players learn other positions in the minor leagues? That's actually preferable and gives them another position to move to if they are blocked at the MLB level.

Dodgers do this all the time. Hell Smith is playing a ton of 3B despite being a stud at C. I understand some people want to pencil guys in at certain positions and just sort of leave them there but it's more important to get your talent on the field you talk about ML but what about MLB? A FA Hahn likes may come available it's a huge benefit being able to move a young guy off a position even if he is slightly less effective because at the end of the day if the player is a good player and still under control he's underpaid and you are still getting a ton surplus value regardless of where he is on the diamond.

 

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Kahnle plus Robertson (who had some value) and the remains of Frazier got us a descending top 100 type prospect in Rutherford plus a C prospest in Clarkin.  A Riley + Allard package is significantly more valuable IMO and while Kahnle didn’t have much a track record either he did have eye popping stuff.

Jace doesn't? His K/9 is pretty ridiculous if he has mediocre stuff. He's also a lefty with 6 years of control instead of a righty with 4. Rutherford was also considered top 50 at the time, the rankings that dropped him came out right after. Also Davidson was brought up in a 2 for 3 proposed swap by a Braves beat writer that included Fried, who is ranked higher than Allard. Also Davidson comes with much more control than Frazier did.

Another thing I'd be willing to change is send Sanchez instead of Davidson as long as Riley was coming back. I just assumed the Braves would be more interested in Davidson since their beat writer suggested him as part of a trade.

Edited July 20, 20187 yr by Dam8610

Read that BoSox may eye Shields as they need SP and don't have the ammo to cop a legitimate arm, imagine a Shields, Soria, Cedeno, Avilan package all to BOS? Highly unlikely but would make a lot of sense for BOS

MAYBE that package would net Groome but still not too likely

I'd deal that package for OF Cole Brannen, 1B Josh Ockimey, and RHP Roniel Raudes...NOT HAPPENING, but fun to think about

Can we please realize Soria doesn't have the same value as Hand

2 hours ago, Dam8610 said:

Jace doesn't? His K/9 is pretty ridiculous if he has mediocre stuff. He's also a lefty with 6 years of control instead of a righty with 4. Rutherford was also considered top 50 at the time, the rankings that dropped him came out right after. Also Davidson was brought up in a 2 for 3 proposed swap by a Braves beat writer that included Fried, who is ranked higher than Allard. Also Davidson comes with much more control than Frazier did.

Another thing I'd be willing to change is send Sanchez instead of Davidson as long as Riley was coming back. I just assumed the Braves would be more interested in Davidson since their beat writer suggested him as part of a trade.

By me saying Kahnle has eye popping stuff does not mean I’m saying Fry has mediocre stuff.  Kahnle had one of the highest average velocities when we traded him and power pitchers are typically more attractive for October.  Fry definitely has good stuff for a lefty, but Andrew Miller he is not.  Maybe his breaking pitches can make up for that and he can still be a dominant reliever, but I don’t think right now he’s as easy of a sell as Kahnle was last year.

28 minutes ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Read that BoSox may eye Shields as they need SP and don't have the ammo to cop a legitimate arm, imagine a Shields, Soria, Cedeno, Avilan package all to BOS? Highly unlikely but would make a lot of sense for BOS

MAYBE that package would net Groome but still not too likely

I'd deal that package for OF Cole Brannen, 1B Josh Ockimey, and RHP Roniel Raudes...NOT HAPPENING, but fun to think about

Can we please realize Soria doesn't have the same value as Hand

Not one single person has suggested Soria has the same value as Hand.

Edited July 21, 20187 yr by Chicago White Sox

9 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not one single person has suggested Soria has the same value as Hand.

One is when one is suggesting we get an org.'s #1 for him, ridiculous

10 hours ago, ChiSoxJon said:

Read that BoSox may eye Shields as they need SP and don't have the ammo to cop a legitimate arm, imagine a Shields, Soria, Cedeno, Avilan package all to BOS? Highly unlikely but would make a lot of sense for BOS

MAYBE that package would net Groome but still not too likely

I'd deal that package for OF Cole Brannen, 1B Josh Ockimey, and RHP Roniel Raudes...NOT HAPPENING, but fun to think about

Can we please realize Soria doesn't have the same value as Hand

This reeks of desperation to try and fix/feel better about Tatis Jr. - which, trust me, I get. But not a chance. 

Fry is a tough sell because he's  more valuable to the Sox than Kahnle was, but not as valuable to other teams in the July period as Kahnle was either.

Fry is younger,  under more control  and doesn't have Kahnle's history of being terrible such that there's a less chance Fry is a flash in the pan.  Two months ago, I suggested that the Sox consider trading him.  Consider.  The emergence of Soria as a legitimate trade piece makes trading Fry less enticing. 

59 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Fry is a tough sell because he's  more valuable to the Sox than Kahnle was, but not as valuable to other teams in the July period as Kahnle was either.

Fry is younger,  under more control  and doesn't have Kahnle's history of being terrible such that there's a less chance Fry is a flash in the pan.  Two months ago, I suggested that the Sox consider trading him.  Consider.  The emergence of Soria as a legitimate trade piece makes trading Fry less enticing. 

If I can get a top 100 positional prospect for him that fits a position of need and is relatively close to the majors, I’m moving him and not looking back.  For example, I’d move Fry in a heartbeat for a guy like Austin Riley.  I just don’t that being a realistic ask at this point in time and Riley in particular seems off limits.

Short of that, hold onto Fry and have him help anchor what could be a dominant pen in the coming years.  If the Sox can add one proven veteran, I think we have the pieces internally to build something special in no time.  A trio of Burdi, Hamilton, & Fry along with said veteran is a fantastic starting point.  Beyond that we’d still have Jones, Bummer, Fulmer, Vieira, Covey, & Stephens as potential bullpen options.  That’s a pretty good group of young, cheap, high upside arms IMO.

56 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

If I can get a top 100 positional prospect for him that fits a position of need and is relatively close to the majors, I’m moving him and not looking back.  For example, I’d move Fry in a heartbeat for a guy like Austin Riley.  I just don’t that being a realistic ask at this point in time and Riley in particular seems off limits.

Short of that, hold onto Fry and have him help anchor what could be a dominant pen in the coming years.  If the Sox can add one proven veteran, I think we have the pieces internally to build something special in no time.  A trio of Burdi, Hamilton, & Fry along with said veteran is a fantastic starting point.  Beyond that we’d still have Jones, Bummer, Fulmer, Vieira, Covey, & Stephens as potential bullpen options.  That’s a pretty good group of young, cheap, high upside arms IMO.

 I don't know whether Riley is "the guy", if he's obtainable (I certainly wouldn't think for Fry alone), but the Sox need to start building a major league team and they need a 3B. 
 

8 hours ago, Sox72 said:

This reeks of desperation to try and fix/feel better about Tatis Jr. - which, trust me, I get. But not a chance. 

How does a deal involving Avilan, Soria, and Cedeno have ANYTHING to do with Tatis?

Nate Jones with a setback and being shut-down for two weeks.  Looks like we can exclude him from any trade proposals.

I'm going to predict Jose doesn't get traded due to him playing like shit lately and Soria gets dealt for less than some are predicting on here.

1 hour ago, soxfan2014 said:

I'm going to predict Jose doesn't get traded due to him playing like shit lately and Soria gets dealt for less than some are predicting on here.

Soria will get moved, but I don’t think we will get offered enough to want to deal Fry. If a solid offer came across I wouldn’t hesitate to move him, but his track record is too short to warrant a sizable return. 

Abreu is likely to stay put.

I’m willing to bet that Soria is the only one dealt at the deadline, then either Cedeno, Shields or Avlian get moved in August through a waiver trade. Abreu and Garcia potentially get moved in the offseason. Jones does not get dealt and leaves in free agency eventually after struggling with injuries.

Avisail Garcia to the Phillies for RHP Adonis Medina & LHP McKenzie Mills. The Phillies are in a position where they find themselves atop the NL east and need some corner outfield help, Avi would play well in their park and be and upgrade over Nick Williams, while not being a rental. Garcia offers a fair bit of upside and a one less thing to worry about for them going into the off season, provided he can stay healthy.

James Shields & Xavier Cedeno and cash to the Red Sox for LHP Jason Groome & SS Antoni Flores, with san diego and the sox picking up all the freight neither is a "rental" per se. Boston needs a 4/5 and a bit more bullpen help especially from the left side. Groome has lost a ton of his prospect shine due to injury and is likely in the 125-150 range or prospects at this point. Flores is an interesting 17 year old international signing that might be moved off of SS in the future that is putting up numbers outside the states.

 

Joakim Soria & Luis Avilan to the Rockies for 3B Colton Welker & LHP Breiling Eusebio, again neither is a "rental" per se. Rockies need help in their bullpen if they plan on staying in the thick of it in the NL west. The A's got Familia for a song and I don't expect that to be the case for the rest of the deadline. 

2 hours ago, beautox said:

Avisail Garcia to the Phillies for RHP Adonis Medina & LHP McKenzie Mills. The Phillies are in a position where they find themselves atop the NL east and need some corner outfield help, Avi would play well in their park and be and upgrade over Nick Williams, while not being a rental. Garcia offers a fair bit of upside and a one less thing to worry about for them going into the off season, provided he can stay healthy.

James Shields & Xavier Cedeno and cash to the Red Sox for LHP Jason Groome & SS Antoni Flores, with san diego and the sox picking up all the freight neither is a "rental" per se. Boston needs a 4/5 and a bit more bullpen help especially from the left side. Groome has lost a ton of his prospect shine due to injury and is likely in the 125-150 range or prospects at this point. Flores is an interesting 17 year old international signing that might be moved off of SS in the future that is putting up numbers outside the states.

 

Joakim Soria & Luis Avilan to the Rockies for 3B Colton Welker & LHP Breiling Eusebio, again neither is a "rental" per se. Rockies need help in their bullpen if they plan on staying in the thick of it in the NL west. The A's got Familia for a song and I don't expect that to be the case for the rest of the deadline. 

Interesting destinations but don't see Avi moving, nor Shields/Cedeno netting Groome alone let alone another raw prospect, the last one is more realistic but still seems too good to be true

It makes sense why the Twins wouldn't want to sell everything becase of their mediocre year--I think they have a promising core that will be competitive for a nice chunk of years.  However, it would make too much sense to them to move Fernando Rodney--who's 41 and on a 1-year deal.  I know Boston has shown interest in Rodney, but I think a potential deal involving Rodney could compete with a deal involving Soria (to Boston).  Just don't know if I were the Red Sox if I'd want Fernando Rodney or Joakim Soria in there for a 2018 playoff run, but both seem to be pitching well and have a strong recovery time from nights in which they get bombed--which in fairness...hasn't been too often this year.  

6 hours ago, beautox said:

Avisail Garcia to the Phillies for RHP Adonis Medina & LHP McKenzie Mills. The Phillies are in a position where they find themselves atop the NL east and need some corner outfield help, Avi would play well in their park and be and upgrade over Nick Williams, while not being a rental. Garcia offers a fair bit of upside and a one less thing to worry about for them going into the off season, provided he can stay healthy.

James Shields & Xavier Cedeno and cash to the Red Sox for LHP Jason Groome & SS Antoni Flores, with san diego and the sox picking up all the freight neither is a "rental" per se. Boston needs a 4/5 and a bit more bullpen help especially from the left side. Groome has lost a ton of his prospect shine due to injury and is likely in the 125-150 range or prospects at this point. Flores is an interesting 17 year old international signing that might be moved off of SS in the future that is putting up numbers outside the states.

 

Joakim Soria & Luis Avilan to the Rockies for 3B Colton Welker & LHP Breiling Eusebio, again neither is a "rental" per se. Rockies need help in their bullpen if they plan on staying in the thick of it in the NL west. The A's got Familia for a song and I don't expect that to be the case for the rest of the deadline. 

Not horrible ideas, but I doubt the Phillies/Red Sox/Rockies would be willing to part with those prospects in the proposed deals. 

The price won't be anywhere near that high for Soria, as Welker is a legitimate top 100 prospect. I'm thinking the return will be along the lines of what we got for Swarzak, maybe slightly more. 

22 hours ago, steveno89 said:

Soria will get moved, but I don’t think we will get offered enough to want to deal Fry. If a solid offer came across I wouldn’t hesitate to move him, but his track record is too short to warrant a sizable return. 

Abreu is likely to stay put.

His track record is no shorter than Kahnle's, and he's the main reason the Sox got Rutherford. I could see another package deal like that that nets the team a high quality guy and some lottery tickets. Maybe even more considering what the Indians paid for Hand.

5 minutes ago, Dam8610 said:

His track record is no shorter than Kahnle's, and he's the main reason the Sox got Rutherford. I could see another package deal like that that nets the team a high quality guy and some lottery tickets. Maybe even more considering what the Indians paid for Hand.

If we can package some combination of Leury Garcia/Jace Fry/Joakim Soria to get a top 100 prospect, I absolutely do it. 

1 hour ago, steveno89 said:

Not horrible ideas, but I doubt the Phillies/Red Sox/Rockies would be willing to part with those prospects in the proposed deals. 

The price won't be anywhere near that high for Soria, as Welker is a legitimate top 100 prospect. I'm thinking the return will be along the lines of what we got for Swarzak, maybe slightly more. 

Finally, bingo

14 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

If we can package some combination of Leury Garcia/Jace Fry/Joakim Soria to get a top 100 prospect, I absolutely do it. 

Unfortunately, it takes two to tango.

6 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Unfortunately, it takes two to tango.

Yeah, that idea reminds me of one of the trades you constantly get proposed in fantasy. Where it's like one good player and two average players for one of your best. Then you laugh at the guy as you decline. 

With Suter down, MIL will need a starter?

Same team Hahn fleeced Cordell from (a top 15 prospect) for Swarzak last year

I know MIL is into Britton too so maybe they go for Soria

How does RHP James Shields and RHP Joakim Soaria to MIL in exchange for 1B Jake Gatewood and LHP Brendan Murphy

That allows Hahn to package LHPs Avilan and Cedeno to BOS in exchange for OF Cole Brannen and RHP Roniel Raudes and call it a Deadline