2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

the 49ers using those picks stupidly doesn't necessarily make the deal better from Pace's end

True, but if Trubisky and the Bears keep playing like they are, I won't care at all about what we gave up to acquire him 

21 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

the 49ers using those picks stupidly doesn't necessarily make the deal better from Pace's end

yea it does.   You know if Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster were tearing it up, you would be complaining even louder that the trade was too much.   You can only compare the players that were drafted by the teams here, any theoretical alternate draft doesnt matter.  I know you are salty about the price to move up, but it remains a fair price and Pace appears to have nailed the picks in that draft and the picks given up are certainly not biting him in the ass

13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

yea it does.   You know if Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster were tearing it up, you would be complaining even louder that the trade was too much.   You can only compare the players that were drafted by the teams here, any theoretical alternate draft doesnt matter.  I know you are salty about the price to move up, but it remains a fair price and Pace appears to have nailed the picks in that draft and the picks given up are certainly not biting him in the ass

I still think that Pace bid against himself, but consider a more obvious overpay:

If the Bears traded the next 20 years of 1st round draft picks and then SF blew every single one of those picks, it was still a bad trade for the Bears unless you think the Bears GM would make the same bad/blown picks. You can only compare the value of the picks at the time the trade was made and what we can determine about what other offers/options were out there, not after-the-fact knowledge. You want to evaluate if Pace made a good or the best decision at the time with the information that was knowable then.

 

I'm glad Mitch is progressing and hopefully he continues to get better!

1 minute ago, StrangeSox said:

I still think that Pace bid against himself, but consider a more obvious overpay:

If the Bears traded the next 20 years of 1st round draft picks and then SF blew every single one of those picks, it was still a bad trade for the Bears unless you think the Bears GM would make the same bad/blown picks. You can only compare the value of the picks at the time the trade was made and what we can determine about what other offers/options were out there, not after-the-fact knowledge. You want to evaluate if Pace made a good or the best decision at the time with the information that was knowable then.

 

I'm glad Mitch is progressing and hopefully he continues to get better!

The value is off by a late third rounder. It's not an obvious  overpay and the 49ers have already said there were other teams calling about the pick 

16 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

yea it does.   You know if Solomon Thomas and Reuben Foster were tearing it up, you would be complaining even louder that the trade was too much.   You can only compare the players that were drafted by the teams here, any theoretical alternate draft doesnt matter.  I know you are salty about the price to move up, but it remains a fair price and Pace appears to have nailed the picks in that draft and the picks given up are certainly not biting him in the ass

I don't really agree with this. I am fine with the trade and optimistic with Trubisky. But we do get to apply hindsight here. Knowing bears were interested in a new QB to set the franchise up we see the scenarios were:

- Trade up, guarantee QB 1 and lose two thirds and a fourth : result - Trubisky

- Stand pat, still get QB 1, keep two thirds and a fourth. One of those thirds literally became Alvin Kamara, but also potential to land chris godwin or kareem hunt. Instead: Tarik Cohen! and he's good

- Stand pat, get QB 2, keep two thirds and a fourth. Now we know that is either Watson or Mahomes, and I would guess Pace leans Watson. I do not think Mahomes is mahomes with a year of john fox telling him the forward pass is an abomination, but I do think in general good qbs end up good and bad qbs end up making excuses about coaching staffs.

So in retrospect, Bears would have been fine either way. A supposed weak qb class ended up really good (perhaps due to new offenses knowing not to try and thwart their strengths).

That said, bears guaranteed they got their QB 1 and did not lose much. Really it's the margins of flexibility that will be tested, and something that will hurt more this year next when you may need to buy depth instead of having cheap drafted depth.

Overall, I still think Pace's biggest miss was his first draft, when team was clearly in a rebuild, and he drafted White instead of trying to accumulate tons of picks in that draft for future.

12 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

The value is off by a late third rounder. It's not an obvious  overpay and the 49ers have already said there were other teams calling about the pick 

They did but it isn't clear that the niners thought those trades were good enough to actually move back multiple spots.

14 minutes ago, bmags said:

They did but it isn't clear that the niners thought those trades were good enough to actually move back multiple spots.

But then why is it clear to everyone that Pace didn't need to move up because he was "bidding against himself"?   Can't have it both ways here

 

6 minutes ago, Tony said:

The Bears are 8-3, Pace and Nagy are both front runners for executive and coach of the year........and we're still talking about Pace trading up for Trubisky in 2017. 

I don't get it either but here we are. Almost like a few months ago when we were arguing that Mack was a bad trade because the bears weren't ready 

12 minutes ago, Tony said:

The Bears are 8-3, Pace and Nagy are both front runners for executive and coach of the year........and we're still talking about Pace trading up for Trubisky in 2017. 

Come on, it was the top two franchise changing move for the bears in last decade and it's only inappropriate to discuss it if there is criticism of it. If people say "looks like ole john lynch isn't a genius!" then strangely I don't see posts like this.

9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

But then why is it clear to everyone that Pace didn't need to move up because he was "bidding against himself"?   Can't have it both ways here

 

It's not clear, but the big peter king in the draft room article had them saying "let's see what else we can get from the bears", and we know that all three qbs are good, so I think it's fair to say Ryan Pace has done an excellent job and also that doesn't mean the trubisky trade was a stroke of genius when basically all outcomes would have turned out well (and some better)

From the athletic's all-22, a screenshot from the miller to Daniel pass. Our oline has been pretty good pass blocking, but hooowww do 4 OL/TE let both d players get through them for only a gain of 8.

https://theathletic.com/676474/2018/11/26/all-22-what-the-fourth-quarter-in-detroit-taught-us-about-the-bears-ability-to-finish-games/?redirected=1

 

Prediction in the near future.

Joe Buck: The Chicago Bears are Super Bowl champions for the first time since 1985 and Mitch Trubisky is your SB MVP!

Soxtalk: Still can't believe Pace gave up those picks.

10 minutes ago, bmags said:

From the athletic's all-22, a screenshot from the miller to Daniel pass. Our oline has been pretty good pass blocking, but hooowww do 4 OL/TE let both d players get through them for only a gain of 8.

https://theathletic.com/676474/2018/11/26/all-22-what-the-fourth-quarter-in-detroit-taught-us-about-the-bears-ability-to-finish-games/?redirected=1

 

it could be because they arent allowed to engage until the pass is caught or they would be illegal man downfield?  Or is that wrong?

12 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

it could be because they arent allowed to engage until the pass is caught or they would be illegal man downfield?  Or is that wrong?

While difficult, when he catches it whitehair is in first position and christian jones just jukes him, then I think it's wintzman? who then just whiffs. At that point Daniel has had to juke twice and the defense recovers.

Daniel doesn't have great acceleration but had he been able to just go to full speed I think he could have had it closer to inside the ten.

(Bears scored anyway)

2 hours ago, StrangeSox said:

I still think that Pace bid against himself, but consider a more obvious overpay:

If the Bears traded the next 20 years of 1st round draft picks and then SF blew every single one of those picks, it was still a bad trade for the Bears unless you think the Bears GM would make the same bad/blown picks. You can only compare the value of the picks at the time the trade was made and what we can determine about what other offers/options were out there, not after-the-fact knowledge. You want to evaluate if Pace made a good or the best decision at the time with the information that was knowable then.

 

I'm glad Mitch is progressing and hopefully he continues to get better!

@RapSheet Ian Rapoport
11:52 AM - Apr 28, 2017
For what it's worth, the #49ers did have a real and legitimate offer for someone to come to No. 2 yesterday. #Bears offer was best value.

Edited November 26, 20187 yr by soxfan49

2 hours ago, bmags said:

I don't really agree with this. I am fine with the trade and optimistic with Trubisky. But we do get to apply hindsight here. Knowing bears were interested in a new QB to set the franchise up we see the scenarios were:

- Trade up, guarantee QB 1 and lose two thirds and a fourth : result - Trubisky

- Stand pat, still get QB 1, keep two thirds and a fourth. One of those thirds literally became Alvin Kamara, but also potential to land chris godwin or kareem hunt. Instead: Tarik Cohen! and he's good
If they stand pat, they likely don't get Trubisky. See Rapoport tweet above. I've read that the Bears didn't believe Watson can hold up to the violence in the NFL, so I guess it remains to be seen whether he can or can't, although he hasn't got off to a great start.

- Stand pat, get QB 2, keep two thirds and a fourth. Now we know that is either Watson or Mahomes, and I would guess Pace leans Watson. I do not think Mahomes is mahomes with a year of john fox telling him the forward pass is an abomination, but I do think in general good qbs end up good and bad qbs end up making excuses about coaching staffs.

So in retrospect, Bears would have been fine either way. A supposed weak qb class ended up really good (perhaps due to new offenses knowing not to try and thwart their strengths).

That said, bears guaranteed they got their QB 1 and did not lose much. Really it's the margins of flexibility that will be tested, and something that will hurt more this year next when you may need to buy depth instead of having cheap drafted depth.
The good news is, the positions they will need- RT, OG, S, CB, RB- are all positions that are typically drafted in the mid rounds anyway. They should have about $20m of cap room as well (and usually 4-5 of that has to be used for the draft, but this time it'll only be about 2) to find some decent veterans.

Overall, I still think Pace's biggest miss was his first draft, when team was clearly in a rebuild, and he drafted White instead of trying to accumulate tons of picks in that draft for future.

 

Edited November 26, 20187 yr by soxfan49

On 11/26/2018 at 11:57 AM, Kyyle23 said:

it could be because they arent allowed to engage until the pass is caught or they would be illegal man downfield?  Or is that wrong?

If the pass is behind the line of scrimmage they can block and go downfield before the pass is thrown/caught.

The problem with the blocking is O-linemen are not built for open field blocking except for a few guards. 

On 11/25/2018 at 8:17 AM, Kyyle23 said:

Jerry Jones is just gonna wait for him to be cleared and make the call

Dan Snyder says hold my beer. Holy shit that organization. (Washington claimed Foster off waivers)

Reuben Foster gets 33k from the redskins this week to NOT play while the nfl decides whether to suspend him or not

 

i saw this on twitter and it is sad but true,  if Kaepernick beat a woman instead of kneeling, he would still be in the nfl today.   That is messed up 

9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Reuben Foster gets 33k from the redskins this week to NOT play while the nfl decides whether to suspend him or not

 

i saw this on twitter and it is sad but true,  if Kaepernick beat a woman instead of kneeling, he would still be in the nfl today.   That is messed up 

You do realize that Kaepernick lost his job to Blaine Gabbert before he ever protested the anthem, correct? If he beat a woman he would likely not still be in the same way that Ray Rice isn't the league (look at the year he had before the incident). If Kaepernick was one of the best 20 or so QBs in the NFL he would have been picked up. He's just not.

 

Talent will always win out. If Cam, Russell Wilson, Pat Mahomes, or any of the other star QBs kneeled during the anthem do you honestly think they would be out of the league? If Kaepernick was good and a difference maker a team would have absolutely picked him up. People are just making him out to be better than he is/was. He's one of the best 60 QBs and should, in theory, be rostered, but I understand not wanting the media circus on a backup level QB.

13 minutes ago, Boogua said:

You do realize that Kaepernick lost his job to Blaine Gabbert before he ever protested the anthem, correct? If he beat a woman he would likely not still be in the same way that Ray Rice isn't the league (look at the year he had before the incident). If Kaepernick was one of the best 20 or so QBs in the NFL he would have been picked up. He's just not.

 

Talent will always win out. If Cam, Russell Wilson, Pat Mahomes, or any of the other star QBs kneeled during the anthem do you honestly think they would be out of the league? If Kaepernick was good and a difference maker a team would have absolutely picked him up. People are just making him out to be better than he is/was. He's one of the best 60 QBs and should, in theory, be rostered, but I understand not wanting the media circus on a backup level QB.

I didn't say anything about Kaepernick starting, I said he would be in the nfl.  You can't tell me that he didn't have the talent to hold a clip board when guys like Nathan Peterman were starting this season

4 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I didn't say anything about Kaepernick starting, I said he would be in the nfl.  You can't tell me that he didn't have the talent to hold a clip board when guys like Nathan Peterman were starting this season

Not worth the media circus to hold a clipboard. Sucks, but just the way it is.

Just now, Boogua said:

Not worth the media circus to hold a clipboard. Sucks, but just the way it is.

Which goes back to my point, why is Reuben Foster worth the media circus that comes with domestic violence?

Just now, Kyyle23 said:

Which goes back to my point, why is Reuben Foster worth the media circus that comes with domestic violence?

They don't view him as a backup.

Colin Kaepernick is a starting QB in this league.  I can think of 10 teams off the top of my head that he could be starting for right now and be an improvement over the current starting QB situation.