28 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said:

I've gotta say, I love Kopech's cockiness, swagger, confidence.  Anderson has this too, it's just Kopech has more talent and Anderson is still incredibly raw.  I think this is needed on this team and something I hope Moncada can develop a little bit.

As I've said Kopech is Sale 2.0 in mind and body.  I like TA's confidence as well but he's just not a superstar talent like Kopech.  Hopefully Kopech's arm can match his confidence because I agree that this team needs an influx of talent and attitude.  

23 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

What's ironic are those who say don't worry about service time, it's a ways off, yet complain the Sox don't spend like crazy on 15 and 16 year olds from other countries. 

The argument here is, this is a month and a half, where he mostly will be facing AAA line ups. We know they aren't doing anything this year, so why not roll the dice and have him wait? 

I do see some posts about innings. Does anyone really think Kopech is going to pitch 180 innings in 2019 at the major league level? He would have to make almost all of his starts, and average more innings per start than he ever has averaged.  IMO, his innings, if he was shut down at the end of the AAA season would have been plenty to push what he is more realistic in pitching next year. Whatever. It will be interesting seeing what he can do. I just hope this month and a half doesn't haunt them in the future. We have seen pitchers get this late season look, including a White Sox Cy Young award winner, and it doesn't translate into taking off the next year.

 

 

I think Kopech will be in the neighborhood of 180 IP next year.  He isn't going to be that far short of it this year

Sox are just building up his trade value. We’re obviously getting Mike Trout this offseason.?

3 minutes ago, flavum said:

Sox are just building up his trade value. We’re obviously getting Mike Trout this offseason.?

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think Kopech will be in the neighborhood of 180 IP next year.  He isn't going to be that far short of it this year

That is 30 starts at 6 innings. I would bet against it, unless he really has found some command, and it isn't just close enough for lesser players to swing at. 

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I think Kopech will be in the neighborhood of 180 IP next year.  He isn't going to be that far short of it this year

I agree he will be close to 180 this year. 200 next year.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

That is 30 starts at 6 innings. I would bet against it, unless he really has found some command, and it isn't just close enough for lesser players to swing at. 

33 starts at 5 innings is 165 IP.  With his control coming around the way it has, I don't think 6 IP is that crazy.

Just now, Dick Allen said:

That is 30 starts at 6 innings. I would bet against it, unless he really has found some command, and it isn't just close enough for lesser players to swing at. 

If they stick to a 5 man rotation and don't skip any he will have 10 starts. He is at 126 innings. If he gets 50 innings that's 5 innings per start and gets him to 176 innings. That's not unreasonable. If they want to preserve his rookie status for next year they pitch him 45 innings. I would categorize 171 innings as "not too far short of 180 innings."

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

33 starts at 5 innings is 165 IP.  With his control coming around the way it has, I don't think 6 IP is that crazy.

You really think he will make 33 starts next year? He isn't exactly Mark Buehrle.  He averaged 5.4 innings per start in AA, and 5.25 this season. Getting it up to 6 in the major leagues  next year might happen, but it doesn't seem realistic. That's one reason I don't think the innings thing is that big of a deal. Plus, the White Sox have a history of getting guys to increase their load in a year. Check Sale, Garland, Danks. 

Put me down for 175 next year.

31 starts averaging 5 2/3.

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

You really think he will make 33 starts next year? He isn't exactly Mark Buehrle.  He averaged 5.4 innings per start in AA, and 5.25 this season. Getting it up to 6 in the major leagues  next year might happen, but it doesn't seem realistic. That's one reason I don't think the innings thing is that big of a deal. Plus, the White Sox have a history of getting guys to increase their load in a year. Check Sale, Garland, Danks. 

Kopech has 126 IP today.  He has probably 6 starts left in the season, assuming he goes every 5th turn, and not every 5th day.  Even if he averages 5 IP in those starts, you are looking at 155 IP essentially.  Another 26 IP next year is another half inning per start on average.  As you can see with Kopech, as the season has gone on, the number of innings he has gone, has been going up.  Post ASB he is averaging 6 1/3 per start, and 6 2/3 in his 3 August starts.

I feel like 180 is a pretty comfortable number for next season.

3 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Kopech has 126 IP today.  He has probably 6 starts left in the season, assuming he goes every 5th turn, and not every 5th day.  Even if he averages 5 IP in those starts, you are looking at 155 IP essentially.  Another 26 IP next year is another half inning per start on average.  As you can see with Kopech, as the season has gone on, the number of innings he has gone, has been going up.  Post ASB he is averaging 6 1/3 per start, and 6 2/3 in his 3 August starts.

I feel like 180 is a pretty comfortable number for next season.

I just feel if he had finished out the AAA season , he would have been fine pitching 180 innings next year, if that does happen. If it does, a lot of things went right, which is good.

2 hours ago, Jose Abreu said:

It's ironic that some on this board detest Jerry Reinsdorf and everything he stands for, yet vehemently support him in service time debates.

When it comes down to it, all of this is about money. That extra year of control is one that can be purchased through free agency if you're the top bidder. While I understand the desire to maximize our window by guaranteeing that year, it's also funny to me that people who are so anti-Reinsdorf concurrently want him to essentially be cheap and save his money. 

I don't find that to be correct at all.  It's not about Jerry saving money.  If they wait to call them up, then that is an extra year they spend in a White Sox jersey.  Barring a team-friendly extension, there is zero chance in hell Kopech or Eloy re-sign with the Sox at free agency if they live up to the hype, so I'd rather extend their White Sox career by 365 days.  

 

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Continue to disagree on this. A month ago, right after the all star break, was when things really clicked with him and he started this roll. For example - From June 1 up to the All Star break, he pitched 31 innings. In those 31 innings he had 31 walks, gave up 21 earned runs, had an ERA over 6 in that stretch. His last start before the all star break, he walked 4 in 3 innings, gave up 4 runs.

Since the All Star break, he has averaged 6.1 innings per start, pitched 44 innings, and walked 4. Read that again. His ERA in this stretch is 1.84. You could tell me he should have been called up a week ago, but not mid-July, this stretch is where he actually earned it.

Yeah the timing isn't curious at all.You call a guy up when he is on a roll . I'm sure I had a post or 2 in Future Sox that predicted this . If he could put together 5 good starts in a row  he would be up. I think it's been 6 or 7 good starts now so he's put the bad stretch behind him and learned to cope with the loss of someone close to him.

2 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

I don't find that to be correct at all.  It's not about Jerry saving money.  If they wait to call them up, then that is an extra year they spend in a White Sox jersey.  Barring a team-friendly extension, there is zero chance in hell Kopech or Eloy re-sign with the Sox at free agency if they live up to the hype, so I'd rather extend their White Sox career by 365 days.  

 

That's where I'm at. If the Sox were in contention and needed reinforcements, if he was nails the first couple of months and every excuse in the book to keep him down was weaker than the one before,...that's a different thing. But a month and a half pitching meaningless games vs. many teams that will be featuring glorified AAA line ups, I just don't see much developement benefit in that. Nothing that couldn't also be accomplished in 2019. 

I think what they gave up in control blows away anthing they can gain at this point, if there even is anything to really gain. 

 

6 minutes ago, LittleHurt05 said:

I don't find that to be correct at all.  It's not about Jerry saving money.  If they wait to call them up, then that is an extra year they spend in a White Sox jersey.  Barring a team-friendly extension, there is zero chance in hell Kopech or Eloy re-sign with the Sox at free agency if they live up to the hype, so I'd rather extend their White Sox career by 365 days.  

 

Not the case if we offer them the most money. Therefore, it is about Jerry saving money. 

Just now, Jose Abreu said:

Not the case if we offer them the most money. Therefore, it is about Jerry saving money. 

I never said I don't want Jerry to offer the most money.  I'm saying that Jerry won't offer the most money, so I care more about the extra year of service.  If I thought there was a great chance they stay here for the full duration of their careers, the service time issue would bother me less.

7 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Not the case if we offer them the most money. Therefore, it is about Jerry saving money. 

That won't happen. It is so far removed from reality it isn't even worth discussing. The reality is that they might keep a couple guys around from this rebuild, but if Moncada/Kopech/Cease/Eloy all hit their ceilings, they're gone at the end of their contract. There is no way in hell that the Sox will shell out $300M for any one player. I don't see it ever happening while JR is the Chairman. The Sox never offer the most money, hell they almost lost Dye in the 04-05 offseason because they didn't offer a lot of money. They're really lucky Dye didn't take the extra dough and honored his verbal agreement. 

Edited August 20, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

6 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Not the case if we offer them the most money. Therefore, it is about Jerry saving money. 

The extra year of control also helps if the team isn't the juggernaut we all hope, and they have to think about selling guys off again. Granted, 7 years from now it may not matter at all, but what are the odds his starts this last month or so are going to matter?

 

By the time these guys become free agents, there probably is a pretty decent chance Jerry won't be running the White Sox.

Edited August 20, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

Reinsdorf is 82, Im not sure how anyone can really predict what the Sox ownership will be like in 5 years.

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That won't happen. It is so far removed from reality it isn't even worth discussing. The reality is that they might keep a couple guys around from this rebuild, but if Moncada/Kopech/Cease/Eloy all hit their ceilings, they're gone at the end of their contract. There is no way in hell that the Sox will shell out $300M for any one player. I don't see it ever happening while JR is the Chairman. The Sox never offer the most money, hell they almost lost Dye in the 04-05 offseason because they didn't offer a lot of money. They're really lucky Dye didn't take the extra dough and honored his verbal agreement. 

I honestly don't think JR will still be around by the time Kopech is a free agent. And with the way that Hahn has approached the free agency questions lately, I'd be pretty disappointed if we weren't at least in the mix for Machado/Arenado etc. in the coming offseasons. 

4 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

That won't happen. It is so far removed from reality it isn't even worth discussing. The reality is that they might keep a couple guys around from this rebuild, but if Moncada/Kopech/Cease/Eloy all hit their ceilings, they're gone at the end of their contract. There is no way in hell that the Sox will shell out $300M for any one player. I don't see it ever happening while JR is the Chairman. The Sox never offer the most money, hell they almost lost Dye in the 04-05 offseason because they didn't offer a lot of money. They're really lucky Dye didn't take the extra dough and honored his verbal agreement. 

Do we know for certain Jerry will still own the team in 2024? He'd be 88 years old.

4 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I honestly don't think JR will still be around by the time Kopech is a free agent. And with the way that Hahn has approached the free agency questions lately, I'd be pretty disappointed if we weren't at least in the mix for Machado/Arenado etc. in the coming offseasons. 

And if JR isn't around, guess who else probably won't be around, unless things go as well as hoped? RH/KW probably aren't that concerned with the extra year of control.

Edited August 20, 20187 yr by Dick Allen

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but a quote from Rick Hahn:

“Outside noise or emotion or even passion or excitement for seeing the rebuild progress has nothing to do with our decisions in terms of the timing of promotions,” Hahn said. “Each of these decisions are motivated by what’s best in terms of putting both the organization and the individual player in the best long-term position to reach their potential..."

 

I personally think this should be the benchmark for the next guys that will get called up.

16 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I honestly don't think JR will still be around by the time Kopech is a free agent. And with the way that Hahn has approached the free agency questions lately, I'd be pretty disappointed if we weren't at least in the mix for Machado/Arenado etc. in the coming offseasons. 

I don't either. However, I'm still concerned that the Sox aren't here once JR isn't here. For some horrible reason, I think he's the only one keeping them in Chicago. It wouldn't shock me if they moved to Charlotte after he passes. 

On topic, I'm no longer on the Kopech=Closer train. His last 7 starts or so have answered all of the concerns I've had about him. I think he could be the ace that we're looking for. If he's an ace, the Sale trade is already a win and whatever they get from Moncada/Basabe is gravy. 

Edited August 20, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman