TaylorStSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said: Again, it wasn't THAT they didn't land him, it was WHY they didn't land him, and the fact they lied to the fanbase. Again, they need to pick a fucking lane and commit to it. Do that and be honest with the fans about it. I'm more mad about the lying than anything else to be honest. Did they lie to the fan base, or did you just believe all the bullshit you read on Twitter? Newsflash: those guys on Twitter make a living by generating hype and manipulating sports fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: The front office has been terrible. I'm just not mad about it. It's expected. I'm just not under the delusion that I can change that and, as such, I have realistic expectations. No, you think? I'm also not under that delusion either. We're on the same page here. I know I'm powerless about it. The fact is: THEY FUCKING LIED TO OUR FACES. When they failed, THEY CONTINUED TO FUCKING INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE. That is what I'm mad about. The hubris involved in the whole process was staggering. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: No, you think? I'm also not under that delusion either. We're on the same page here. I know I'm powerless about it. The fact is: THEY FUCKING LIED TO OUR FACES. When they failed, THEY CONTINUED TO FUCKING INSULT OUR INTELLIGENCE. That is what I'm mad about. The hubris involved in the whole process was staggering. What'd they say, "we're going to be competitive in the market" or some bullshit GM speak like that? The same shit pretty much all sports teams tell fans. Pretty much what every one selling something says. Edited February 25, 2019 by TaylorStSox 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: So, delusion. Let's pretend that some of the prospects develop into As caliber players. You think the Sox are going to sign a big name FA? Shit no. They're going to package the remaining prospects to try and get a star with a couple years left on his deal. They're going to sign vets with bad reputations or guys that might have a productive year left. this is who the Sox are. The Sox aren't going to magically become a big market player. Bridgeport isn't suddenly going to become a nice neighborhood and whatever they're calling the ball mall isn't suddenly going to be the hip, new destination for baseball fans in the area. There's a hundred years of history to tell you all this. Well, this basically describes the 2004-05 offseason in a nutshell. When you look at removing Magglio, CLee and Valentin off the books, it wasn’t an exactly an explosion of new spending, other than Freddy, El Duque, Contreras...all the imported position players came in with reasonable or below market value deals. So lightning in a bottle it is. Of course, we likewise had the best farm stpystem in baseball before that 2003-2006 run. Lots of similarities, other than trading 3 studs...at that time, we had the much more maligned White Flag deal that brought in Foulke, Caruso and Howry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Did they lie to the fan base, or did you just believe all the bullshit you read on Twitter? Newsflash: those guys on Twitter make a living by generating hype and manipulating sports fans. No, I believed none of the twitter stuff, it was a joke. Even from the national writers. I was pretty vocal about waiting until the ink was dry. The only things I took seriously was what came out of Hahn's mouth and what the final numbers were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, Jack Parkman said: No, I believed none of the twitter stuff, it was a joke. Even from the national writers. I was pretty vocal about waiting until the ink was dry. The only things I took seriously was what came out of Hahn's mouth and what the final numbers were. Hahn's a lawyer dude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: What'd they say, "we're going to be competitive in the market" or some bullshit GM speak like that? The same shit pretty much all sports teams tell fans. Pretty much what every one selling something says. No Hahn said that when the time is right, the money will be there. That was a lie. That is what I'm mad about. If you're not going to spend the money on Machado at age 26, You're not going to spend it on anyone. Edited February 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: What'd they say, "we're going to be competitive in the market" or some bullshit GM talk like that? The same shit pretty much all sports teams tell fans. Pretty what every one selling something says. I’ll let Fathom rattle off all the ways the fanbase got punked in this Machado chase...it was a lot more than some banal general statement of interest this time around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said: Hahn's a lawyer dude. Again, I know what GM speak is. Are you taking me for a fool or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: I’ll let Fathom rattle off all the ways the fanbase got punked in this Machado chase...it was a lot more than some banal general statement of interest this time around. And it's your own fault for believing sports GM talk. They all say the same bullshit. Ignore GM's. The only time you're going to get honest answers are from some ex jock coach that's taken so many greenies and shotgunned so many beers in his life that he no longer has a filter eg Ozzie. These guys make a living selling dreams to fans. I'm always surprised that it actually works. Edited February 25, 2019 by TaylorStSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, TaylorStSox said: And it's your own fault for believing sports GM talk. They all same the same bullshit. Ignore GM's. The only time you're going to get honest answers are from some ex jock coach that's taken so many greenies and shotgunned so many beers in his life that he no longer has a filter eg Ozzie. These guys making a living selling dreams to fans. I'm always surprised that it actually works. I’ve never heard a GM say “you never know who the 3-4-5 will be, still moves to be made” basically unprompted. That level of cockiness was embarrassing in retrospect. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 For the love of God, the owner of this team is pretty damn open about colluding to keep salaries down. Or, as open as a lawyer will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Again, I know what GM speak is. Are you taking me for a fool or something? This isn’t directed at you, but the amount of “tough guys” on this site over the last week has been too much. Everyone can be pissed at the Sox, but far too many posters are taking out their frustrations on other posters. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TaylorStSox Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, fathom said: I’ve never heard a GM say “you never know who the 3-4-5 will be, still moves to be made” basically unprompted. That level of cockiness was embarrassing in retrospect. That's a titillating quote. Real edgy. A GM saying he doesn't know the roster yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, fathom said: This isn’t directed at you, but the amount of “tough guys” on this site over the last week has been too much. Everyone can be pissed at the Sox, but far too many posters are taking out their frustrations on other posters. I concur on that. It doesn't change the fact that the FO should be roasted on a spit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said: And it's your own fault for believing sports GM talk. They all say the same bullshit. Ignore GM's. The only time you're going to get honest answers are from some ex jock coach that's taken so many greenies and shotgunned so many beers in his life that he no longer has a filter eg Ozzie. These guys making a living selling dreams to fans. I'm always surprised that it actually works. You were one of the few who weren’t taken in...and I’ve been a Sox fan since 1978. Luis Robert signing for that $60+ million (bearing out StL, the draft philosophy changing and bonuses ramping up, drafting Boras clients)...there was certainly ample evidence to believe things just MIGHT be different this time around. In 6 weeks, most of the outrage will have calmed a bit and we’ll be stuck with cool cynicism and apathy around here. The White Sox have no clue how many fans they drew back in the last 2-3 months...and how many they might never get back again if the rebuild turns out to be a total bust. It will be something like 1/4th to 1/3rd of those remaining. The sad part is they easily would have jumped up by 25-50% with Machado, and turned around the prevailing storyline that the rebuild was stuck or even going in the wrong direction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: You were one of the few who weren’t taken in...and I’ve been a Sox fan since 1978. Luis Robert signing for that $60+ million (bearing out StL, the draft philosophy changing and bonuses ramping up, drafting Boras clients)...there was certainly ample evidence to believe things just MIGHT be different this time around. In 6 weeks, most of the outrage will have calmed a bit and we’ll be stuck with cool cynicism and apathy around here. The White Sox have no clue how many fans they drew back in the last 2-3 months...and how many they might never get back again if the rebuild turns out to be a total bust. It will be something like 1/4th to 1/3rd of those remaining. The sad part is they easily would have jumped up by 25-50% with Machado, and turned around the prevailing storyline that the rebuild was stuck or even going in the wrong direction. Dude, I wasn't taken in either. I never truly believed they'd land Machado. I did trust Hahn when he said that he'd make a "competitive offer". The issue is his idea of a "competitive offer" had no basis in reality. That is why I'm upset. They could have missed for any other reason than money and it would have been acceptable, especially with what the final number ended up being. Edited February 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 25, 2019 Author Share Posted February 25, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said: Dude, I wasn't taken in either. I never truly believed they'd land Machado. I did trust Hahn when he said that he'd make a "competitive offer". The issue is his idea of a "competitive offer" had no basis in reality. That is why I'm upset. They could have missed for any other reason than money and it would have been acceptable, especially with what the final number ended up being. Let’s just say the number was less than ten...and those who weren’t drinking the Kool Aid were getting ripped nearly every day for not trusting this “new” front office operating style. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 The Sox also seem to think that Madrigal is about ready for MLB, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Let’s just say the number was less than ten...and those who weren’t drinking the Kool Aid were getting ripped nearly every day for not trusting this “new” front office operating style. Deep down I knew that them missing for being cheap was a possibility. The only reason that I had even a glimmer of hope was because I thought that he had no other option that was even willing to go to 30M AAV over an 8 year deal. Edited February 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I’m glad we didn’t sign Manny. Just didn’t seem like a good fit to me. The rebuild is still the rebuild, looking super solid but set back because of Kopech. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 49 minutes ago, Jake said: The Sox also seem to think that Madrigal is about ready for MLB, Which is absolutely crazy. Hahn has slow played all the minor leaguers and the one guy he actually should slow play he's going to rush to the big leagues. Madrigal needs time in the minors to get a hell of a lot stronger and to figure out what he's going to do with all the high fastballs (knee high to anyone else) he's going to see. If he' ins the big leagues this year it will be a huge mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I really doubt Madrigal will be up this year. They just believe he will be the future 2B, so it’s a full year of Moncada playing third where wins aren’t the priority. Hopefully it pans out for everyone. I would expect Madrigal playing a full season at Birmingham with Vizquel, then maybe AFL, then start 2020 in Charlotte and get called up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCCWS Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said: Again, it wasn't THAT they didn't land him, it was WHY they didn't land him, and the fact they lied to the fanbase. Again, they need to pick a fucking lane and commit to it. Do that and be honest with the fans about it. I'm more mad about the lying than anything else to be honest. As long as our expectations are set accordingly, that is all that matters. Jack: Or they picked the breakdown lane but do not want to say it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Parkman Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, SCCWS said: Jack: Or they picked the breakdown lane but do not want to say it. Nice. LOL. I'm fine whether they're a mid market team or a small market team, but be honest with the fans and run your baseball ops intelligently, whichever lane they may pick. Either way, the need to spend more money on 7/2 FA, player development and analytics. How much they need to spend on each is dependent on which lane they want to take. Right now, yes, I'd agree they're taking the breakdown lane. They aren't willing to do what is necessary to compete, period. They're just being a really dumb organization all around. Edited February 25, 2019 by Jack Parkman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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