4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

They both eventually signed for fair market value...it was Trout who undervalued himself by half the money his historical fWAR numbers merited.

and if the White Sox did not intend on giving them market value they should have never have sat at the table. 

7 minutes ago, Harper2Sox said:

But why?  This isn’t some sort of Cubs curse thing.  The Sox payroll was tiny this year and for the foreseeable future.  The money was there to spend.  It’s either the Sox front office completely bungled the negotiations with Machado or the Sox are simply too cheap and value profits over wins.  The rebuild path didn’t need to take much longer when you can add 5 to 6 wins with one player acquisition.

If the WHY really bothers you that much, you are probably rooting for the wrong team.  I mean the history of the franchise is there.

I don't see what is wrong with complaining. This will be the first decade since the 1970's that the team didn't appear in the playoffs at least once.  And why should anyone be patient about a rebuilding? They are rebuilding because the team has been mismanaged and run into the ground by a complacent and aging organization.  Also, by the way, anyone who thinks that Kopech will someday be a #1 pitcher is living in a world of delusion.

4 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

Also, by the way, anyone who thinks that Kopech will someday be a #1 pitcher is living in a world of delusion.

How the heck do you know?  Betting against any individual pitcher becoming a number one is a pretty solid bet, but are you a scout?  A pitching coach?  A character from Back to the Future?

43 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If the WHY really bothers you that much, you are probably rooting for the wrong team.  I mean the history of the franchise is there.

"Why ask why. Try bud dry." 

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

I don't see what is wrong with complaining. This will be the first decade since the 1970's that the team didn't appear in the playoffs at least once.  And why should anyone be patient about a rebuilding? They are rebuilding because the team has been mismanaged and run into the ground by a complacent and aging organization.  Also, by the way, anyone who thinks that Kopech will someday be a #1 pitcher is living in a world of delusion.

Your Kopech hot take thooo lol! That's not the way this works sir. 

Edited March 20, 20196 yr by Chisoxmb35

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

I don't see what is wrong with complaining. This will be the first decade since the 1970's that the team didn't appear in the playoffs at least once.  And why should anyone be patient about a rebuilding? They are rebuilding because the team has been mismanaged and run into the ground by a complacent and aging organization.  Also, by the way, anyone who thinks that Kopech will someday be a #1 pitcher is living in a world of delusion.

Yes. It is every GM, scout, and talent evaluator that is wrong... and not the much more obvious answer. 

Not sure about a 5-6 win improvement with Machado...but the spillover effect on the lineup (taking the pressure off the middle of the order and Yoan) and overall sagging morale of the fanbase would have reversed the Kopech gut punch.

When it comes down to it, having the rebuild’s success pinned to just a handful of players probably wasn’t the wisest decision.

Rodon has disappointed...we haven’t take advantage of the Robert deal to add another $30-50 million to bring in at least 4-5 more quality depth pieces, the Dominican is still a barren wasteland, then you have to start figuring in all the “just missed ‘em” draft decisions or players being selected either before or after the Sox, it’s just incredibly demoralizing.

Above and beyond that, teams like Milwaukee, Oak and TB routinely outscout us, picking up Aguilar (thank god CLE lost him and Mejia)...or procuring Muncy, Chris Taylor and Turner off the scrap heap in LA.  

I guess we now have half a DH in Palka to show for last year...?

14 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes. It is every GM, scout, and talent evaluator that is wrong... and not the much more obvious answer. 

Wrong on Gio, Moncada, Fulmer, Rodon, Collins as well?  Moncada could still break either way, but that’s a lot more going wrong  than right.  In addition, a significant minority of SoxTalk is pretty much ready to declare Madrigal something between David Eckstein and Chris Getz.

We have all of two success stories so far, Timmy and Lopez.  Both are/were universally considered as complementary pieces and not the “core” guys like you have 3-4 of on the Northside.  

Bottom line, without the Q deal, the abyss would be opening up to swallow this franchise whole.

10 name limit reached.

Edited March 20, 20196 yr by caulfield12

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Wrong on Gio, Moncada, Fulmer, Rodon, Collins as well?  Moncada could still break either way, but that’s a lot more going wrong  than right.  In addition, a significant minority of SoxTalk is pretty much ready to declare Madrigal something between David Eckstein and Chris Getz.

We have all of two success stories so far, Timmy and Lopez.  Both are/were universally considered as complementary pieces and not the “core” guys like you have 3-4 of on the Northside.  

Bottom line, without the Q deal, the abyss would be opening up to swallow this franchise whole.

10 name limit reached.

No one else likes Kopech outside of the White Sox? Damn. I could have sworn he was a top 10 pitching prospect and a 1st round pick for the Red Sox. 

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

No one else likes Kopech outside of the White Sox? Damn. I could have sworn he was a top 10 pitching prospect and a 1st round pick for the Red Sox. 

I left him off intentionally because we really still have no idea how well TJS will hold up if he tries to throw 102 again instead of determining to be more of a pitcher than a thrower.

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If the WHY really bothers you that much, you are probably rooting for the wrong team.  I mean the history of the franchise is there.

What history?  That the Sox are cheap?

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

My expiration date is much less than 4 decades.

You’re the only one trying to dredge up this owner’s four decades of franchise-crippling decisions in this thread.  You seem obsessed with the subject.  I’ll indulge you on the topic, if you want, but I think the subject matter of this thread focused on the latest of the current owner’s ineptitude that played out this offseason, is plenty for the time being.  

But, like I said, more than happy to revisit the four decades of similar fan-unfriendly decisions that have been sent our way the past 38 years.  You just let me know, Mate!

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Wrong on Gio, Moncada, Fulmer, Rodon, Collins as well?  Moncada could still break either way, but that’s a lot more going wrong  than right.  In addition, a significant minority of SoxTalk is pretty much ready to declare Madrigal something between David Eckstein and Chris Getz.

We have all of two success stories so far, Timmy and Lopez.  Both are/were universally considered as complementary pieces and not the “core” guys like you have 3-4 of on the Northside.  

Bottom line, without the Q deal, the abyss would be opening up to swallow this franchise whole.

10 name limit reached.

Moncada was a league average player at 22/23. In what world has a lot more gone wrong than right with him? He has holes. He needs to fix the holes, but for the floor of a player to be league average is OK with me.

3 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Moncada was a league average player at 22/23. In what world has a lot more gone wrong than right with him? He has holes. He needs to fix the holes, but for the floor of a player to be league average is OK with me.

If our standard is Profar/Buxton vs. Acuna/Soto/Vladdy/Seager/Bregman, then he's doing just wonderfully...no to mention the White Sox are now going to negate about 50% of his defensive value by sticking him at 3B, where first step reaction/quickness has more of an impact than lateral mobility and athleticism around the bag.  Finally, he's got poor hands and his arm is going to be tested a LOT when he juggles or doesn't field balls cleanly, because Abreu isn't a very good 1B, either.

 

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

If our standard is Profar/Buxton vs. Acuna/Soto/Vladdy/Seager/Bregman, then he's doing just wonderfully...no to mention the White Sox are now going to negate about 50% of his defensive value by sticking him at 3B, where first step reaction/quickness has more of an impact than lateral mobility and athleticism around the bag.  Finally, he's got poor hands and his arm is going to be tested a LOT when he juggles or doesn't field balls cleanly, because Abreu isn't a very good 1B, either.

 

Alex Bregman really wasn't much better than Moncada in his first taste of the big leagues.

And why is Vlad on the list? He's never even seen a MLB pitch and you have already put him into a class with Soto and Acuna. My goodness. 

50% of his defensive value lol. 3rd base grades out as a more important defensive position than 2nd slightly so no... he didn't just lose 50% of his value.

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

If the WHY really bothers you that much, you are probably rooting for the wrong team.  I mean the history of the franchise is there.

You mean the “history of the” REINSDORF era “is there”.  None of us posting on this site are “probably rooting for the wrong team”, and shame on you for suggesting so.  

No, what we all have to cling onto from a hope perspective is the fact this horrific current ownership, which has failed our fan base for an ungodly near four decades, is probably going to come to an end sooner rather than later.  And then our fan base will move onto a much brighter future.  

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Alex Bregman really wasn't much better than Moncada in his first taste of the big leagues.

And why is Vlad on the list? He's never even seen a MLB pitch and you have already put him into a class with Soto and Acuna. My goodness. 

50% of his defensive value lol. 3rd base grades out as a more important defensive position than 2nd slightly so no... he didn't just lose 50% of his value.

Name one scout or exec not connected to the White Sox who believe that Moncada profiles better at 3B than 2B?   This is like the puff pieces arguing that Zack Collins still possesses the ability to be an everyday catcher, all external commentary from the scouting and analytics community to the contrary.

Remember, he was a SS coming out of Cuba, so that's a lot more closely aligned with 2B than 3rd.

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by caulfield12

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Name one scout or exec not connected to the White Sox who believe that Moncada profiles better at 3B than 2B?   This is like the puff pieces arguing that Zack Collins still possesses the ability to be an everyday catcher, all external commentary from the scouting and analytics community to the contrary.

Remember, he was a SS coming out of Cuba, so that's a lot more closely aligned with 2B than 3rd.

Name on scout that thinks Moncada sucks now. 

SS isn't more closely aligned with 2nd than 3rd. Jesus Christ you make up and say the oddest things.

 

The Scouting Community ranks Collins as a above average catching prospects in baseball but if you want to keep spewing complete and utter nonsense go right ahead. 

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Name on scout that thinks Moncada sucks now. 

SS isn't more closely aligned with 2nd than 3rd. Jesus Christ you make up and say the oddest things.

 

The Scouting Community ranks Collins as a above average catching prospects in baseball but if you want to keep spewing complete and utter nonsense go right ahead. 

Nobody in the scouting community thinks he can stick at catcher. 

4 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Nobody in the scouting community thinks he can stick at catcher. 

Well, this is 100% wrong but OK.

44 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Alex Bregman really wasn't much better than Moncada in his first taste of the big leagues.

And why is Vlad on the list? He's never even seen a MLB pitch and you have already put him into a class with Soto and Acuna. My goodness. 

50% of his defensive value lol. 3rd base grades out as a more important defensive position than 2nd slightly so no... he didn't just lose 50% of his value.

Because caulfield. He just needed to add another name to meet quota.

Edited March 21, 20196 yr by soxfan2014

15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Well, this is 100% wrong but OK.

I’ve yet to hear anyone not related to the Sox organization that has said he will stick at catcher.

1 hour ago, Fan O'Faust said:

You’re the only one trying to dredge up this owner’s four decades of franchise-crippling decisions in this thread.  You seem obsessed with the subject.  I’ll indulge you on the topic, if you want, but I think the subject matter of this thread focused on the latest of the current owner’s ineptitude that played out this offseason, is plenty for the time being.  

But, like I said, more than happy to revisit the four decades of similar fan-unfriendly decisions that have been sent our way the past 38 years.  You just let me know, Mate!

Hahahahaha 

50 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Alex Bregman really wasn't much better than Moncada in his first taste of the big leagues.

And why is Vlad on the list? He's never even seen a MLB pitch and you have already put him into a class with Soto and Acuna. My goodness. 

50% of his defensive value lol. 3rd base grades out as a more important defensive position than 2nd slightly so no... he didn't just lose 50% of his value.

Again when it comes to Yoan, my favorite comp is Javy Baez. There are some strong similarities.