What is the value of a slightly above league average bat who is a liability at 1B and makes a ton of money anyway?

I doubt he would get more than a incentive based 1yr deal on the open market.

10 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

What is the value of a slightly above league average bat who is a liability at 1B and makes a ton of money anyway?

I doubt he would get more than a incentive based 1yr deal on the open market.

Around what Encarnacion got.

48 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said:

Around what Encarnacion got.

Over the last 6 years, Encarnacion has 46 more home runs than Abreu, 61 more RBIs. He's been better than or equal to Abreu every season of Abreu's career. 

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Over the last 6 years, Encarnacion has 46 more home runs than Abreu, 61 more RBIs. He's been better than or equal to Abreu every season of Abreu's career. 

So everyone who thinks Abreu is worth a lot should stop thinking that.

I was just saying at most he's worth around what the Mariners got for Edwin.

The Mariners also sent over a huge chunk of the money owed to him, only to get a lottery ticket type arm.

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Over the last 6 years, Encarnacion has 46 more home runs than Abreu, 61 more RBIs. He's been better than or equal to Abreu every season of Abreu's career. 

EE is also due $11M more than Abreu this season, and is a bigger defensive liability than Abreu at this point.  

But yah, Abreu isn't bringing back much, but I suspect he'll be moved if something relatively interesting is offered.  If not, he stays.  

Edited July 24, 20196 yr by ChiSox59

5 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Why do you hate Abreu so much? The guy's been on losing teams every single year of his career,  I never expected you to come down so blatantly hard on him.

That's one of the reasons I love or worship (in a sports sense, not religious) Abreu so much. He's maintained pretty damn nice stats while playing on a pathetic club. Surely since I tend to repeat myself cause of the silence out there to my points you remember I've written that I would think it'd be tough concentrating on individual at bats in July, August, September with the team buried. Yet he seems to always put up good (traditional) stats. You can't accuse me of hating Jose. I am a loyal backer of his. Even if he flops the rest of his career I'll respect what he's done. I feel like he puts in good to great effort and his performance has impressed me despite having to play for a pathetic organization that provides little protection for him in lineup.

32 minutes ago, greg775 said:

That's one of the reasons I love or worship (in a sports sense, not religious) Abreu so much. He's maintained pretty damn nice stats while playing on a pathetic club. Surely since I tend to repeat myself cause of the silence out there to my points you remember I've written that I would think it'd be tough concentrating on individual at bats in July, August, September with the team buried. Yet he seems to always put up good (traditional) stats. You can't accuse me of hating Jose. I am a loyal backer of his. Even if he flops the rest of his career I'll respect what he's done. I feel like he puts in good to great effort and his performance has impressed me despite having to play for a pathetic organization that provides little protection for him in lineup.

But you said "Just win baby" then you spend all this time justifying why you're ok with a loser. 

The argument you just gave is that of a mid-90s cubs fan. Sure the team is terrible but Sammy hit one into the seats, so you're content with the 9-2 loss. 

At least you've made it clear that winning isn't important to you.

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

But you said "Just win baby" then you spend all this time justifying why you're ok with a loser. 

The argument you just gave is that of a mid-90s cubs fan. Sure the team is terrible but Sammy hit one into the seats, so you're content with the 9-2 loss. 

At least you've made it clear that winning isn't important to you.

Wrong. You guys are just like the (Democrat or Republican, you pick I won't write which one lest I violate political policy rules on here) Congress people who have nice one liners that win arguments. You are sharper than me thus win the arguments. I already conceded I never win an argument on here which is fine. But you win as your quick statements lead to your last sentence which wins this argument.

Anyhow, my intent is to win. I personally don't feel Jose can impact winning when the front office puts so many failures around him not only in the lineup but on the mound. Now we have some other good hitters and pitchers but very few in the Jose years. At any rate, though you make good points and win this argument, my intent whether you believe it or not is to win baby, win. I feel Jose can contribute to winning.

p.s.I thought my policy on winning was crystal clear. I got in trouble on this board for writing one time too many how much I care about winning compared to tanking to get a better draft pick. GO JOSE! GO SOX!

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Wrong. You guys are just like the (Democrat or Republican, you pick I won't write which one lest I violate political policy rules on here) Congress people who have nice one liners that win arguments. You are sharper than me thus win the arguments. I already conceded I never win an argument on here which is fine. But you win as your quick statements lead to your last sentence which wins this argument.

Anyhow, my intent is to win. I personally don't feel Jose can impact winning when the front office puts so many failures around him not only in the lineup but on the mound. Now we have some other good hitters and pitchers but very few in the Jose years. At any rate, though you make good points and win this argument, my intent whether you believe it or not is to win baby, win. I feel Jose can contribute to winning.

p.s.I thought my policy on winning was crystal clear. I got in trouble on this board for writing one time too many how much I care about winning compared to tanking to get a better draft pick. GO JOSE! GO SOX!

So you make excuses. You're ok with losers like Jose Abreu if he hits a few home runs because that's more important to you. 

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So you make excuses. You're ok with losers like Jose Abreu if he hits a few home runs because that's more important to you. 

Why do you continue to respond when I already conceded you win the argument and yet re-affirmed my ultimate point about Jose and winning? If I write any more I fear I'll get banned for repeating myself. In my opinion trolling can go both ways. Bless u and have a nice day. I better stop responding to this exchange or I could get in trouble IMO.

6 hours ago, GermanSoxFan said:

What is the value of a slightly above league average bat who is a liability at 1B and makes a ton of money anyway?

I doubt he would get more than a incentive based 1yr deal on the open market.

Agreed. I thought I was one of the few pushing for the Sox to possibly not extend Abreu. Anything beyond a reasonable one year deal would be an overpay at this stage. 

 

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Why do you continue to respond when I already conceded you win the argument and yet re-affirmed my ultimate point about Jose and winning? If I write any more I fear I'll get banned for repeating myself. In my opinion trolling can go both ways. Bless u and have a nice day. I better stop responding to this exchange or I could get in trouble IMO.

I don't think you lost this argument. Just because he is on a losing team does not make him a loser. Like you said he has a place on a winning team. I do think he is trolling you.

3 hours ago, steveno89 said:

Agreed. I thought I was one of the few pushing for the Sox to possibly not extend Abreu. Anything beyond a reasonable one year deal would be an overpay at this stage. 

 

Who cares if it is an overpay? It's not like the Sox are spending any money. You fans that worry about overpays on Abreu ... are you gonna be OK with some 200 or 300 million deal for some alleged superstar? My guess is you are trying to save here and there for the one guy who winds up getting 200 million some offseason? My take is pay the man. He's an all star and is going to be an asset the next 3  years. I hate to break it to you guys who think we're going to win pennants without some veterans who have been through the wars.

15 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Who cares if it is an overpay? It's not like the Sox are spending any money. You fans that worry about overpays on Abreu ... are you gonna be OK with some 200 or 300 million deal for some alleged superstar? My guess is you are trying to save here and there for the one guy who winds up getting 200 million some offseason? My take is pay the man. He's an all star and is going to be an asset the next 3  years. I hate to break it to you guys who think we're going to win pennants without some veterans who have been through the wars.

Well Abreu hasn't been through the wars. Fans want $ spent wisely so we can afford more good players. I want to keep Abreu, I don't hate Abreu. But I think he will take less money to stay here and we don't need to give a 3 year contract.

On 7/24/2019 at 2:37 PM, Balta1701 said:

So you make excuses. You're ok with losers like Jose Abreu if he hits a few home runs because that's more important to you. 

What are you talking about? Your answer here seems to imply, what imply, clearly states that hitting home runs hurt a team’s chances of winning. I’m not sure if you know this, but hitting home runs and doubles score runs and here’s what you don’t seem to get, but you need runs to win. Have you watched the last two Sox games? Runs and the extra base hits that score runs are kind of important. Not sure if you get that concept.

That must be why every team is stressing launch angles and sacrificing strike outs and batting averages for home runs. There must be some way those pesky home runs help winning.

21 hours ago, greg775 said:

Who cares if it is an overpay? It's not like the Sox are spending any money. You fans that worry about overpays on Abreu ... are you gonna be OK with some 200 or 300 million deal for some alleged superstar? My guess is you are trying to save here and there for the one guy who winds up getting 200 million some offseason? My take is pay the man. He's an all star and is going to be an asset the next 3  years. I hate to break it to you guys who think we're going to win pennants without some veterans who have been through the wars.

I think we can do better than a guy projected as a 1 WAR starter at 1B/DH, how about you?  Or do you continue to value sentimental bullshit over wins for the team you ostensibly root for?

Edited July 25, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

I value all-star appearances, RBIs, and total bases over war. 

Ever since about a month ago or so when someone posted that Colome had a war of 0.5 (with all his saves) while Herrera had a war of 0.7 (with all his gas can pitching), war has had almost no credibility with me. 

1 minute ago, vilehoopster said:

I value all-star appearances, RBIs, and total bases over war. 

Ever since about a month ago or so when someone posted that Colome had a war of 0.5 (with all his saves) while Herrera had a war of 0.7 (with all his gas can pitching), war has had almost no credibility with me. 

Herrera is (-)0.7...

2 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I value all-star appearances, RBIs, and total bases over war. 

Ever since about a month ago or so when someone posted that Colome had a war of 0.5 (with all his saves) while Herrera had a war of 0.7 (with all his gas can pitching), war has had almost no credibility with me. 

You can think about WAR when Jose fails to properly get off the bag with a runner on 1st and a double play ball turns into runs for the opposition as it did the other night in Tampa.  I personally cannot wait to have Vaughn at 1st so we don't have to play with a statue at 1st anymore.

@mqr lol.

Edited July 25, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

Plus, how much value does a “projected” war have. I project Abreu’s war in 2022 as 7.5.

That barely has less validity than this stat thing you show.

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

lol.

I knew something smelled funny about that comment.

Or I can value the 3 rbis he got in the one win at TB, and how he came within 3 feet of saving the Sox’s terrible performance last night.

4 minutes ago, mqr said:

Herrera is (-)0.7...

It was posted a month or so ago, the one I’m referencing.

3 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

It was posted a month or so ago, the one I’m referencing.

Well he's thrown 4 total innings in the past 30 days so I promise you it hasn't changed much if at all since then.

Edited July 25, 20196 yr by mqr