4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

So, I don't see anyone having suggested this yet, but someone ought to.

How much is it worth to have Abreu on the roster when Robert comes up?

I think we need to make Jose a lifer. I know he isn't worth the money, but he is a great leader and our guys love him to death. He helps players transition to this country and MLB. We put shitty teams around him and he deserves a shot to win a title with us. He gave us chance to sign him and stuck it out, we'd be bogus for letting him go if he agreed to a decent deal. 

22 hours ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

Man. It's like the only topics on the board are flipping Colome and Abreu's future with the team. I guess until we finally deal Abreu people will keep talking about why we should get rid of Abreu. Sports is so weird in how some guys are judged differently than others. Abreu is raking in RBIs again this year and has produced year after year for a horseshit team. It's not easy to perform well when 2/3 of your games mean nothing. Sad we dislike some of our own so much.

22 hours ago, fathom said:

I think your best chance to have a killer offense going forward is Vaughn at 1B, JDM at DH and Eloy in LF.  The goal should be to put together the best offense possible, and not just keep someone around because they're "good for the clubhouse".

Abreu has 52 RBI and 16 HRs. I realize these stats mean nothing nowadays but they should. His production is better than Machado for gosh sakes. I'm a little surprised you think he's only "good for the clubhouse." Thought you were more fair than that.

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by greg775

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

Abreu has 52 RBI and 16 HRs. I realize these stats mean nothing nowadays but they should. His production is better than Machado for gosh sakes. I'm a little surprised you think he's only "good for the clubhouse." Thought you were more fair than that.

I love Abreu, he’s been a fantastic player and an even better representative of the franchise.  I personally believe the money could be better spent elsewhere.  I won’t hate it if he’s extended, but will hate it if that’s their big offseason move.

5 minutes ago, SonofaRoache said:

I think we need to make Jose a lifer. I know he isn't worth the money, but he is a great leader and our guys love him to death. He helps players transition to this country and MLB. We put shitty teams around him and he deserves a shot to win a title with us. He gave us chance to sign him and stuck it out, we'd be bogus for letting him go if he agreed to a decent deal. 

Deserved got nothing to do with it, just his time is all.

 

4 hours ago, pcq said:

Wouldn't be you without an f word or two. How old are you? I would recommend creative writing. 

Ironically as I've aged I've come to care less and less about grammar and convention when writing online, especially on message boards.   I'm probably older than you are I'd imagine look when I registered FFS.

There's no reason to give him anything more than 2 years.  I'd prefer he gets traded or a QO and declines it, but that won't happen.

22 hours ago, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

Why this obsession with Abreu's OBP?  Isn't his job to knock in the guys that are already on base?  If so, he is doing a good job of it---tied for the AL lead in RBI.  His 52 would project to 128 for a full season. 

Maybe I'm missing something here so someone set me straight.

6 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Why this obsession with Abreu's OBP?  Isn't his job to knock in the guys that are already on base?  If so, he is doing a good job of it---tied for the AL lead in RBI.  His 52 would project to 128 for a full season. 

Maybe I'm missing something here so someone set me straight.

His job is to more than that as a lead footed, stone gloved "1B".  He's a DH.  Doing the whole El Caballo in a down year thing of 270/300/500 with shitty defense isn't really that valuable.  Hell, Lee could take a walk better than Jose.

His BABIB will regress some there's no doubt ZIPS has him for ROS for .300 and (wait for it)... .8 fWAR for a total of a 1 fWAR season.  I wonder if ZIPS has some calculation for his batted ball data because .300 is not that big of a regression if you are looking at his exit velocity.  Statcast would seem to predict he'd see a higher BABIP:  his career is .324. 

Part of it could be defensive maneuvering as well.  Is BABIP down league wide?  

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

6 minutes ago, bubba phillips said:

Why this obsession with Abreu's OBP?  Isn't his job to knock in the guys that are already on base?  If so, he is doing a good job of it---tied for the AL lead in RBI.  His 52 would project to 128 for a full season. 

Maybe I'm missing something here so someone set me straight.

We just have to accept the fact he's not a popular player. He should be one of Sox fans' all-time faves but he isn't. Vaughn is the new darling, the one to replace Abreu at 1B with somebody not named Abreu DHing in the future. If Hahn wants to trade him he might as well. He has the fans' blessing to dump him for a good prospect.

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by greg775

Just now, greg775 said:

We just have to accept the fact he's not a popular player. He should be one of Sox fans' all-time faves but he isn't. Vaughn is the new darling, the one to replace Abreu at 1B with somebody not named Abreu DHing in the future.

He’s been a pretty solid player on nothing but bad teams, why would he be among anyone’s all time faves?

I don't really get the undying love for Abreu on here.  He's been a really nice player for us but there is no reason to extend him more than like a year. 

2 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I don't really get the undying love for Abreu on here.  He's been a really nice player for us but there is no reason to extend him more than like a year. 

Fwiw he’s probably a hair better than konerko

*ducks*

54 minutes ago, pcq said:

My beef with Jose is that he is one of the least athletic players in the league and he doesn't seem to care about his conditioning, judging by his appearance and his movement on the field. 

Jose is fine at a price.  How much does he want to stay for 2  or 3 years vs what's he worth on the open market.  Hahn will have the answers to those questions and make an appropriate decision.  Hahn does fine in deals where he is the seller.  Not quite as good as the buyer IMO.  I'll live with his decision on this.  Same with Colome but odds are a little higher on a trade I think.

1 hour ago, mqr said:

Fwiw he’s probably a hair better than konerko

*ducks*

Oops as longtimers will tell u, I loved Konerko as well.

I also loved Konerko and still appreciate what Abreu brings to our lineup.  I think he still has a place on this team for a couple more seasons.  He can DH after Vaughn gets called up.  For those thinking Collins will be a better option than Abreu anytime soon I just don't see it. Collins' best tool at this point is his walk rate.  I hope I'm wrong but I think a lot of those walks in the minors will turn into strikeouts if he makes it to the show and stops facing pitchers with control issues.  Keith Law makes a similar comment towards the end of his FS podcast.

1 hour ago, Good Guys said:

I also loved Konerko and still appreciate what Abreu brings to our lineup.  I think he still has a place on this team for a couple more seasons.  He can DH after Vaughn gets called up.  For those thinking Collins will be a better option than Abreu anytime soon I just don't see it. Collins' best tool at this point is his walk rate.  I hope I'm wrong but I think a lot of those walks in the minors will turn into strikeouts if he makes it to the show and stops facing pitchers with control issues.  Keith Law makes a similar comment towards the end of his FS podcast.

I'm not a huge fan of Collins either, but I see no reason to not give him a shot. They wasted a top 10 pick on him, might as well see what you have. 

9 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

All star appearences and RBIs?  Really?

 

This sounds condescending.  That isn't how you meant it was it?

On 6/11/2019 at 8:12 PM, ron883 said:

Abreu is sporting a very disappointing .290 OBP currently. It is no secret that he is on the decline. The dude can't field and is losing the ability to hit. Given our options for a 1st baseman and DH, do you see any reason to resign him? We've got Collins and Vaughn coming up in the near future. There are DH options in free agency like JD Martinez. Does Jose serve any purpose for this team next season and beyond? I think you gotta let him walk. He's a liability, especially when he demands that he play 1st base and not DH. 

 I don't get the Collins envy at all.  This is just another "we want the 1st pick to succeed".  There's nothing in him that "says we gotta bring him up soon".   As for Vaughn there's no proof how we will turn out in this organization.   He could be another injury that plagues this organization.

Imagine for a moment being Ron and hating one of the best offensive Sox players of all time to the extent that you constantly start threads about any potential flaw in his game

 

7 hours ago, poppysox said:

This sounds condescending.  That isn't how you meant it was it?

I don't buy into the idea that all ideas are equal and we should appreciate non-sense arguments: in any facet of life, not just sports.  Misinfo and disinfo are a big problem and using non-sense like RBIs and ASG appearances to judge a player's future value to the club is asinine and should be ridiculed lest such ideas spread.

I'm old enough to remember the initial push-back against sabermetrics in the early aughts.  That we are STILL having to refute such non-sense to judge a player's value is disheartening.  We should be better by now. 

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

18 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

Imagine for a moment being Ron and hating one of the best offensive Sox players of all time to the extent that you constantly start threads about any potential flaw in his game

 

I don't see his name very often here for one of the "best offensive players" of all time for the Sox. 

But hey he's ahead of White Sox legend "Jurassic" Carl Everett in career OPS with the club!

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

He's 9th all time in OPS

or is that not a good metric for evaluating offense, in your opinion

I mean, if the argument is that he's not a leader in cumulative statistics like doubles home runs, etc. because guys like Thomas and Konerko played 15 seasons with the Sox while he's played 5 and a half, I guess I can't argue that.

3 minutes ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I mean, if the argument is that he's not a leader in cumulative statistics like doubles home runs, etc. because guys like Thomas and Konerko played 15 seasons with the Sox while he's played 5 and a half, I guess I can't argue that.

Just hasn't had the longevity and has played on bad teams.  Hard to really consider him the best of anything in Sox history.  He's beloved by many on this forum but I just can't separate my opinion of him from his performance.  He's a class act off the field, he's a "clubhouse leader" and all that but he's just a mediocre DH on the field.

Edited June 13, 20196 yr by chitownsportsfan

I don't understand how his performance has been bad at any point in his career. His seasonal WARs: 5.8, 3.8, 2.7, 4.8 for first four complete seasons, and his next year he had 1.7 in a partial season that he was injured. He's getting killed on BABIP this season but is still crushing the ball in terms of XBH. I just can't really be negative about Abreu.