3 minutes ago, mqr said:

One is a very good young shortstop, and the other is a very bad old 1st basemen. It doesn't change the conversation at all. 

You'd be laughed out of any reasonable debate by describing Abreu as "a very bad old" first baseman. Wow. Now we're just throwing crud at the wall. Cmon, at least try.

Edited August 22, 20196 yr by greg775

 How come none of the advanced stats only guys have never mentioned trading Eloy might be a good idea?

1 minute ago, greg775 said:

You'd be laughed out of any reasonable debate by describing Abreu as "a very bad old" first baseman. Wow. Now we're just throwing crud at the wall.

 

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

 How come none of the advanced stats only guys have never mentioned trading Eloy might be a good idea?

WSI --->

1 minute ago, Greg Hibbard said:

I think Abreu is signed for a two year deal for $24 million with an team option for a third year at $12 million with a $1 million buyout, and I think he might play 50 more games total at first base in his entire career post 2019.

I think Vaughn might be up as soon as just after the all star break next year, which is part of the entire plan.

Another very reasonable post by MVP on this issue, Hibbard.

•  

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

You're comparing an elite defender up the middle in his prime at SS/2B to an aging DH.  FFS there is a delta of 25 RUNS defensively between the two.  That's 2.5 WAR right there.  It's why Baez is at 4.3 fWAR and Jose is at .9 fWAR.

Defense matters.  Playing a position matters.  Age matters.  OPS+ does not at all encapsulate that.  Why the hell anybody would compare the two is beyond me.  Cubs infatuation I guess.

I have zero infatuation with the Cubs.

I don't get devaluing a DH. In the American League the Chicago White Sox play in, you are required by the rules to use a player called a "Designated Hitter" who does not play a position in the field. We need one. We've needed one for fucking years, and now, thank GOD we have one for 2020.

My point is that Jose Abreu is better OFFENSIVELY this season than a player typically thought of by baseball fans as a very good OFFENSIVE baseball player who YES is also a elite defender.

Edited August 22, 20196 yr by Greg Hibbard

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/2020-mlb-free-agents-by-position.html

there’s the list. Tell me who’s the better 1b option for next season since there are no better internal options until 2021 at the earliest.

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

 How come none of the advanced stats only guys have never mentioned trading Eloy might be a good idea?

The real real young guys get a break. I'm going to be interested to see how many years that will be with all the Sox younguns. To be fair, they'll deserve a long period to improve, but Eloy won't be torched by the advanced statters (again I'm not against letting him develop; he will be a phenom) until he's 26 or so. If a guy is a very young prospect part of a rebuild the stat people kind of put them on hold. Which is fine; they do need time to develop. Of course that is an intangible, (waiting for young kids to get experience) and the stat people don't have much patience regarding intangibles of veterans (like leadership, etc).

Edited August 22, 20196 yr by greg775

Just now, chitownsportsfan said:

 

WSI --->

LMAO.  If Eloy can't play LF, then wouldn't his overall WAR be supressed? Couldn't you get a king's ransom for him right now? Wouldn't it be selling high?

 

Just for the record, I don't think Abreu is a good defensive 1B, but he's the 8th most valuable defensive first baseman per Fangraphs

2 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mlb.com/amp/news/2020-mlb-free-agents-by-position.html

there’s the list. Tell me who’s the better 1b option for next season since there are no better internal options until 2021 at the earliest.

I'd honestly rather have several of those guys for one year if my other option is signing Abreu for 3

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

Just for the record, I don't think Abreu is a good defensive 1B, but he's the 8th most valuable defensive first baseman per Fangraphs

I'm sure there will be something about this great stat that they'll find fault with. After all, he's "a very bad old" first baseman.

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

LMAO.  If Eloy can't play LF, then wouldn't his overall WAR be supressed? Couldn't you get a king's ransom for him right now? Wouldn't it be selling high?

 

He's at .4 fWAR.  He's had a bad year.  It wouldn't be "selling high" it would be foolishly bailing on a 22 year old that you've ID'd as a future cornerstone of your offense.

And WTF does trading a guy that was the 3rd overall prospect in baseball in 2018 have to do with Jose fucking Abreu? Why do I waste time responding to idiotic tangents from moronic trolls with room temp IQs?

1 minute ago, mqr said:

I'd honestly rather have several of those guys for one year if my other option is signing Abreu for 3

Who specifically would you rather have than Abreu at 2/24M? Keep in mind, the Sox are attempting to compete next season.

1 minute ago, mqr said:

I'd honestly rather have several of those guys for one year if my other option is signing Abreu for 3

Abreu isn't going to sign for 3 guaranteed  years. it will be for 1 or 2, probably something performance based which triggers either a 2nd or 3rd year option. 

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

I'd honestly rather have several of those guys for one year if my other option is signing Abreu for 3

What's been your biggest problem with stat-filler Jose, mqr? The biggest reasons cited are he's ancient calendar wise, he can't field, his WAR is lousy, his defense is horrible. Meanwhile, Jose-lovers like me nod in approval when looking at his PRODUCTION: homers and RBIs baby! And leadership of course.

Just now, greg775 said:

I'm sure there will be something about this great stat that they'll find fault with. After all, he's "a very bad old" first baseman.

It just really baffles me, because I'm definitely a pro-Sabermetrics guy, but the advanced metrics love Abreu's batted ball profile. So when people don't like Abreu, it's not really an advanced stats versus traditional stats thing. It's just a matter of whether the advanced stats people are actually researching him, or are just looking at one number (generally his WAR or his wRC+) for confirmation bias without actually diving into his contact profile

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Abreu isn't going to sign for 3 guaranteed  years. it will be for 1 or 2, probably something performance based which triggers either a 2nd or 3rd year option. 

Yep

2 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Why do I waste time responding to idiotic tangents from moronic trolls with room temp IQs?

Oops, greg the amateur psychologist sees us back on the playground with chitownsportsfan ready to punch somebody. We're at that stage of the argument, insulting very reasonable posts from pro-Jose people.

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

Then how come the Sox only have 3 players with a better OBP, no players with more home runs, and no players with more doubles? 

Because they have a metric shit ton of trash i. Their lineup. Jimenez has been below replacement level and only Moncada, Anderson, Garcia and McCann are worth more than 1 fWAR. Yolmer fucking Sanchez has more fWAR than Abreu, and he's a consistent whipping boy. 

Edited August 22, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

Abreu isn't going to sign for 3 guaranteed  years. it will be for 1 or 2, probably something performance based which triggers either a 2nd or 3rd year option. 

I'm totally fine with a 1+1

 

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

It just really baffles me, because I'm definitely a pro-Sabermetrics guy, but the advanced metrics love Abreu's batted ball profile. So when people don't like Abreu, it's not really an advanced stats versus traditional stats thing. It's just a matter of whether the advanced stats people are actually researching him, or are just looking at one number (generally his WAR or his wRC+) for confirmation bias without actually diving into his contact profile

I personally think they look at WAR and at that point are ready to rip Jose's page out of the team yearbook forever.

Just now, greg775 said:

Oops, greg the amateur psychologist sees us back on the playground with chitownsportsfan ready to punch somebody. We're at that stage of the argument, insulting very reasonable posts from pro-Jose people.

I'm surprised you're around after Tony and Kyle ethered you for the billionth time last night.   All you do is troll here.   You add nothing of value.  You don't have any insight or opinions beyond stanning Jose Abreu and beer leaguers like Palka because your neanderthal brain reacts to flying objects faster than it can a spreadsheet.

2 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

It just really baffles me, because I'm definitely a pro-Sabermetrics guy, but the advanced metrics love Abreu's batted ball profile. So when people don't like Abreu, it's not really an advanced stats versus traditional stats thing. It's just a matter of whether the advanced stats people are actually researching him, or are just looking at one number (generally his WAR or his wRC+) for confirmation bias without actually diving into his contact profile

I mean I really don’t understand it. He’s the best available option for 1b next season. I don’t think it’s even debatable when you look at that free agent list and acknowledge guys like Sheets and Vaughn are at least a year away from the bigs. The folks that want him gone have yet to cite a single player better to replace him.

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I mean I really don’t understand it. He’s the best available option for 1b next season. I don’t think it’s even debatable when you look at that free agent list and acknowledge guys like Sheets and Vaughn are at least a year away from the bigs. The folks that want him gone have yet to cite a single player better to replace him.

1B is a wasteland throughout baseball. There's not a ton of good players there. You have Freeman, Rizzo, Goldschmidt, Pete Alonso and a whole bunch of crap. 

EDIT: forgot that Josh Bell is good this year.

I agree that there aren't better options than Abreu, but I wouldn't give him more than 2 years. 

Edited August 22, 20196 yr by Jack Parkman

8 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

I'm surprised you're around after Tony and Kyle ethered you for the billionth time last night.   All you do is troll here.   You add nothing of value.  You don't have any insight or opinions beyond stanning Jose Abreu and beer leaguers like Palka because your neanderthal brain reacts to flying objects faster than it can a spreadsheet.

WRONG. How bout I was calling for the EXACT SAME contract Passan wrote about WEEKS ago. You are wrong. I don't fricking troll and you have insulted me. Read my posts. 

Edited August 22, 20196 yr by greg775