3 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

It does, however, remain a very steep price to pay for a good not great SP.  Wheeler is a legit risk.  A risk the Sox pretty much have to take if they're serious, but you're getting awfully close to that range where you may as well just pay up a bit more for Strasburg.

It’s a risk no doubt, but dude has been a 4+ win starter two straight years and still has untapped potential.  Strasburg would be great, but my guess is he gets 6/$180M minimum and I don’t see us being serious for him at that price point.

That isn't anything new for the Twins.  I posted a day or 2 ago that Wolfson guy said they still haven't made an offer.  

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

It does, however, remain a very steep price to pay for a good not great SP.  Wheeler is a legit risk.  A risk the Sox pretty much have to take if they're serious, but you're getting awfully close to that range where you may as well just pay up a bit more for Strasburg.

I both agree with this but also this is just the price of pitching.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s a risk no doubt, but dude has been a 4+ win starter two straight years and still has untapped potential.  Strasburg would be great, but my guess is he gets 6/$180M minimum and I don’t see us being serious for him at that price point.

Agreed.  It's not going to be a small jump up from Wheeler's price to Strasburg's.  Strasburg is going to get $150-$200 mil.  If the Sox can't land Wheeler, it's much more likely they go down the ladder to the lower tier of pitchers than up to Strasburg.

14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

It does, however, remain a very steep price to pay for a good not great SP.  Wheeler is a legit risk.  A risk the Sox pretty much have to take if they're serious, but you're getting awfully close to that range where you may as well just pay up a bit more for Strasburg.

It's a steep price, but we know the Sox are going to pay for pitching this year, and it's arguable that giving Bumgarner a 4/75 deal is a greater risk than giving Wheeler 5/100.

4 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

Agreed.  It's not going to be a small jump up from Wheeler's price to Strasburg's.  Strasburg is going to get $150-$200 mil.  If the Sox can't land Wheeler, it's much more likely they go down the ladder to the lower tier of pitchers than up to Strasburg.

Which is my fear.  Everything below Wheeler, with the exception of possibly Ryu, just doesn’t have TOR upside and would be very much unfulfilling.

2 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

It's a steep price, but we know the Sox are going to pay for pitching this year, and it's arguable that giving Bumgarner a 4/75 deal is a greater risk than giving Wheeler 5/100.

Exactly.

5 minutes ago, Perfect Vision said:

It's a steep price, but we know the Sox are going to pay for pitching this year, and it's arguable that giving Bumgarner a 4/75 deal is a greater risk than giving Wheeler 5/100.

I am with ya 100%.  Not campaigning to pass on Wheeler by any means.  Just pointing out that handing him 5/$110M+ is quite a commitment that definitely could backfire. 

they're the same age and Bumgarner has pitched 200 innings seven times. Wheeler never has.

15 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

That isn't anything new for the Twins.  I posted a day or 2 ago that Wolfson guy said they still haven't made an offer.  

It almost feels like final offers have been submitted since the weekend and the Twins are like "wait, wait, we are going to make an offer eventually". 

If I was in Wheelers camp, I'd be pretty annoyed. It sounds like he's been ready to sign somewhere and now it's almost Thanksgiving and the team they're waiting on is doing... what exactly?

I'd be like screw the Twins let's just take the best offer.

 

 

Just now, Hatchetman said:

they're the same age and Bumgarner has pitched 200 innings seven times. Wheeler never has.

A lot more mileage of Bumgarner’s arm.

Somebody in a Phillys sub overlayed Bum's spray chart against him at CBP and he would have given up 34 HR's just at CBP.  Would not even include the 15 he gave up on the road.

There should be no reason we go after him. 

32 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Could always discuss the topic at hand?  ?‍♂️

Best not to expect someone to change for you after posting here for 15 years.

Its the offseason man, only so much can be said about a given topic during the downtime.

Just now, hi8is said:

Best not to expect someone to change for you after posting here for 15 years.

Its the offseason man, only so much can be said about a given topic during the downtime.

I hear ya. I don't expect you to change - you do you.  As I said in my post, I am genuinely curious if you believed that most posters find the bit funny.  That is it.  

1 minute ago, hi8is said:

Best not to expect someone to change for you after posting here for 15 years.

Its the offseason man, only so much can be said about a given topic during the downtime.

So what people would do then is just not sh*tpost.

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

A lot more mileage of Bumgarner’s arm.

well, yeah because he's been hurt so much.

1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said:

I hear ya. I don't expect you to change - you do you.  As I said in my post, I am genuinely curious if you believed that most posters find the bit funny.  That is it.  

I believe it’s stupid and funny at times... others probably find it also stupid, funny, tired, annoying, and amusing.

But I generally don’t tend to ever think about how people perceive me on a message board.

4 minutes ago, bmags said:

So what people would do then is just not sh*tpost.

Half of this board is not serious in nature during the offseason when it’s slow. We’ve been down this road before, best to just let each other be and move along.

Oracle spray chart overlayed at CBP.  That's really scary

42 minutes ago, bmags said:

I both agree with this but also this is just the price of pitching.

So everybody here wants to see some $action$ then complain that free agents are over-paid. Scott Boras thanks you.

1 minute ago, pcq said:

So everybody here wants to see some $action$ then complain that free agents are over-paid. Scott Boras thanks you.

I don't think that was his point. Just that at what level of paying wheeler would you rather just pay more for strasburg.

30 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

It does, however, remain a very steep price to pay for a good not great SP.  Wheeler is a legit risk.  A risk the Sox pretty much have to take if they're serious, but you're getting awfully close to that range where you may as well just pay up a bit more for Strasburg.

I don't think is steep at all. It seems very reasonable to me, to be honest. This guy is coming off of two consecutive 4+ win seasons, his stuff is at its peak, and there's even speculation/some evidence that he could be better if he improved his sequencing (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/zack-wheeler-is-good-but-not-as-good-as-he-could-be/). 

There's tons of risk with every pitcher, but how is this guy not worth five years at ~$20M? I mean, it's a very similar and arguably even better profile than Corbin had going into last offseason, what with Corbin's only one great season (albeit a better platform season, statistically) and diminished velocity/heavily increased slider usage (plus similar injury history), and he was disappointed to get 6/$140M or whatever.

I don't know, I'm confused, but I seem to be higher on Wheeler than a lot of people, so maybe it's me.

8 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I don't think is steep at all. It seems very reasonable to me, to be honest. This guy is coming off of two consecutive 4+ win seasons, his stuff is at its peak, and there's even speculation/some evidence that he could be better if he improved his sequencing (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/zack-wheeler-is-good-but-not-as-good-as-he-could-be/). 

There's tons of risk with every pitcher, but how is this guy not worth five years at ~$20M? I mean, it's a very similar and arguably even better profile than Corbin had going into last offseason, what with Corbin's only one great season (albeit a better platform season, statistically) and diminished velocity/heavily increased slider usage (plus similar injury history), and he was disappointed to get 6/$140M or whatever.

I don't know, I'm confused, but I seem to be higher on Wheeler than a lot of people, so maybe it's me.

Was he disappointed at 6/140?I thought that was considered a coup on him getting the sixth year since people were laughing at Cashman.

54 minutes ago, hi8is said:

Half of this board is not serious in nature during the offseason when it’s slow. We’ve been down this road before, best to just let each other be and move along.

You go first. 

47 minutes ago, bmags said:

Was he disappointed at 6/140?I thought that was considered a coup on him getting the sixth year since people were laughing at Cashman.

I don't know, maybe it's just around here. But everyone has been decrying Cashman for not beating it. Also maybe it was Boras talk. But, regardless, it seems like a similar situation in Wheeler, but seems to coming at a lot less.