15 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Ive told anyone who has asked me that the 30 day period is the most unclear part of the law. I think in retrospect that they should have never called it an "extension" and instead said that they would be issuing a "new order."

Ultimately I think that it will prevail, but they should have anticipated this attack.

I was thinking about this last night and realized there is actually a third option here (other than the two judicial ones - order good, order bad). The Illinois Assembly could in theory pass a short bill to amend the IMEA code to add a legislative trigger at the 30 day mark. In other words, orders could be extended, or new orders on the same disaster issued, past 30 days with legislative consent. That way the check and balance are there against the executive, but the door remains open if needed for extension. (by the way I posted a few days back about Wisconsin already having this trigger in place, or one like it)

Of course that would require the Assembly to come into session, write a bill, pass both chambers, and get the governor to sign it, all before Friday and during a pandemic. So, a bit of a long shot.

 

One thing that must be addressed is the pressure that is being put on health care providers. I see that an ER doctor has committed suicide and others are emotionally cracking. That is one reason they need to get all the support they can get. And real support. Not just words or gestures.

What do we get from Washington? A bunch of rich, elitists who feel they won't be touched by this because they are rich and powerful. It starts with Trump and McConnell and goes on from there. This is not about these out-of-touch assholes holding onto power. This is about the country. The arrogance and out-and-out incompetence is galling. These are the worst examples of public officials I have ever seen. They are letting the American people down, but all they care about is their poll numbers.

Pence is nothing but a kiss ass. That man lowers himself more and more every day. It embarrasses me that my state elected this moron as governor. And yet he think he can be president someday.

Things are not going to improve just because we start opening up. 

1 hour ago, StrangeSox said:

 

contrast:

 

 

 

What's their net wealth increase since January 1?

Edit: This came off a bit more harsh than intended. I too wish the government had done a better job of helping those who actually needed it.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by gatnom

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

One thing that must be addressed is the pressure that is being put on health care providers. I see that an ER doctor has committed suicide and others are emotionally cracking. That is one reason they need to get all the support they can get. And real support. Not just words or gestures.

What do we get from Washington? A bunch of rich, elitists who feel they won't be touched by this because they are rich and powerful. It starts with Trump and McConnell and goes on from there. This is not about these out-of-touch assholes holding onto power. This is about the country. The arrogance and out-and-out incompetence is galling. These are the worst examples of public officials I have ever seen. They are letting the American people down, but all they care about is their poll numbers.

Pence is nothing but a kiss ass. That man lowers himself more and more every day. It embarrasses me that my state elected this moron as governor. And yet he think he can be president someday.

Things are not going to improve just because we start opening up. 

https://news.yahoo.com/top-er-doctor-treated-virus-122258067.html

Heartbreaking story...which all the governors reopening their states would take the time to consider the cost to health care professionals of overwhelming the system.

Yesterday we hit 1 million cases in the US, and  3 million world wide.

51 minutes ago, gatnom said:

 

What's their net wealth increase since January 1?

Edit: This came off a bit more harsh than intended. I too wish the government had done a better job of helping those who actually needed it.

Per Forbes in October 2019, Jeff Bezos was worth $119B. Today, it's $140.3B.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/10/03/forbes-400-amazon-ceo-remains-richest-person-us-despite-divorce/3849962002/

https://www.forbes.com/profile/jeff-bezos/#789855e21b23

That's about $1600 per second that his wealth has increased since the October article. Compare that to the pay and conditions for Amazon warehouse and delivery workers in the midst of a pandemic.

 

We shoveled megayatchloads of more money at the rich and powerful and have done next to nothing for most Americans let alone the most vulnerable. We bailed out the stock market. We are going to come out of this economic and health crisis a much more inequitable society with broken or destroyed public institutions in exchange for ever-more power concentrated among the wealthiest of the wealthy.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by StrangeSox

55 minutes ago, gatnom said:

 

What's their net wealth increase since January 1?

Edit: This came off a bit more harsh than intended. I too wish the government had done a better job of helping those who actually needed it.

This is a bit misleading.    Not going to calculate for each company, but the DJIA is still down roughly 16% on the year, not that anyone will be feeling sorry for the billionaire class.   It bottomed out at around 18,000 and now at 24,100 and some change, so about a 34% swing back up.

24 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Per Forbes in October 2019, Jeff Bezos was worth $119B. Today, it's $140.3B.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/10/03/forbes-400-amazon-ceo-remains-richest-person-us-despite-divorce/3849962002/

https://www.forbes.com/profile/jeff-bezos/#789855e21b23

That's about $1600 per second that his wealth has increased since the October article. Compare that to the pay and conditions for Amazon warehouse and delivery workers in the midst of a pandemic.

 

We shoveled megayatchloads of more money at the rich and powerful and have done next to nothing for most Americans let alone the most vulnerable. We bailed out the stock market. We are going to come out of this economic and health crisis a much more inequitable society with broken or destroyed public institutions in exchange for ever-more power concentrated among the wealthiest of the wealthy.

Am I wrong or is his wealth increase due to Amazon's stock price?  Do you think this pandemic has helped Amazon?  Do you think people would be better off with or without Amazon during this pandemic?  I know my household uses Amazon a lot, and that has increased over the last month.

People aren't shoveling money to Bezos.  They are  buying from his company and investing in his company, which drives shares up and increases his personal net worth.  If you want in, buy Amazon stock.

56 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Per Forbes in October 2019, Jeff Bezos was worth $119B. Today, it's $140.3B.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/10/03/forbes-400-amazon-ceo-remains-richest-person-us-despite-divorce/3849962002/

https://www.forbes.com/profile/jeff-bezos/#789855e21b23

That's about $1600 per second that his wealth has increased since the October article. Compare that to the pay and conditions for Amazon warehouse and delivery workers in the midst of a pandemic.

 

We shoveled megayatchloads of more money at the rich and powerful and have done next to nothing for most Americans let alone the most vulnerable. We bailed out the stock market. We are going to come out of this economic and health crisis a much more inequitable society with broken or destroyed public institutions in exchange for ever-more power concentrated among the wealthiest of the wealthy.

There's probably better ways to illustrate this than taking the handful of CEOs in the industries that in many cases provide necessary services, choosing a favorable time period and saying "see rich people get everything". How's Bob Igers net worth, dave calhoun's, any entertainment, hotel, travel ceo. 

And things like the S&P and even stock market growth in the last few years have been hugely driven by companies that also happen to be the ones that should be well set-up through this. 

 

16 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

How many people are acceptable for you to kill in the pursuit of economy?  Where do you draw the line?

We already kill millions around the world. Every, and I mean every, death that is attributed to poverty should be counted. Lack of proper nutrition, housing, health care are deaths in pursuit of economy. There are enough resources on the planet for every human to have food, clothing, shelter, and health care. Economic systems are tools that concentrate those resources in a few hands and they alone decide in perhaps an abstract way, the quality of life for a few billion people. 

30 minutes ago, bmags said:

There's probably better ways to illustrate this than taking the handful of CEOs in the industries that in many cases provide necessary services, choosing a favorable time period and saying "see rich people get everything". How's Bob Igers net worth, dave calhoun's, any entertainment, hotel, travel ceo. 

And things like the S&P and even stock market growth in the last few years have been hugely driven by companies that also happen to be the ones that should be well set-up through this. 

 

How about Amazon employees being underpaid and working in dangerous conditions while Bezos becomes unfathomably wealthy off of their labor?

 

Edit: I bet all those travel CEO's are still doing much, much, much better than the hundreds of thousands of low wage workers who have been laid off in their industry.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by StrangeSox

One can make an argument that the Trump administration is attempting to stop Bezos....at least that Department of Defense contract worth billions shockingly awarded to MSFT...and now tied up in a lawsuit.  Not to mention trying to raise the prices by a factor of 5-6x on USPS deliveries of AMZN packages.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/13/amazon-gets-restraining-order-to-block-microsoft-work-on-pentagon-jedi.html
 

That said, it’s not just Amazon.  It’s the very top of the pyramid.   Wal-Mart.   Apple.   Facebook.  Google.   Netflix.   MSFT.

They will have so much power, a financial and lobbying influence so disproportionate that the middle and lower class might as well no longer exist.   We’re clearly seeing it with the banks favoring their deep pocketed institutional clients as well with two SBA funding rounds.

If you don’t have at least a billion dollars, nobody in Washington will pay attention.   The only way to fight back is a grassroots effort like Sanders had going strong based on thousands and thousands of small contributors, and actually winning elections (where they proved to be far less effective with their endorsed candidates.)   Nevertheless, the establishment neoliberal wing of the Democratic Party wiped out five years of Our Revolution organizing in less than ten days, from South Carolina through Super Tuesday.  This despite the fact a majority of the party was closer on most platform issues to the left than the right.

For the second presidential election in a row, a majority of Dems don’t even have a candidate they 100% can believe in. This time, however, that and Tara Reade might not even be enough to save Trump from the massive hole he’s dug for himself.

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by caulfield12

We are now going to use the powers of the federal government to force low wage meat processing workers back on the job while giving their employees liability shields. Wonder what sort of health care plans these workers get? 

 

2 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

We are now going to use the powers of the federal government to force low wage meat processing workers back on the job while giving their employees liability shields. Wonder what sort of health care plans these workers get? 

 

So if you die because your employer forces you back to work, too bad.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

So if you die because your employer forces you back to work, too bad.

They weren't going to vote for Trump anyway. 

It is interesting that meat production would be considered essential. I'm guessing vegetarians would say otherwise. Actually I'm slightly surprised that any agricultural worker would be essential. We are currently a net importer of human food items. We are trying to so hard to build a wall and stop a lot of those ag workers from even getting to the US. If we really feel that the work is essential we should be looking at a guest worker program and allowing them in through the front door. 

1 hour ago, Texsox said:

We already kill millions around the world. Every, and I mean every, death that is attributed to poverty should be counted. Lack of proper nutrition, housing, health care are deaths in pursuit of economy. There are enough resources on the planet for every human to have food, clothing, shelter, and health care. Economic systems are tools that concentrate those resources in a few hands and they alone decide in perhaps an abstract way, the quality of life for a few billion people. 

Also, how many more die around the world due to the food shortages? How many more die from suicide, drug overdoses or subsequent damage from drugs due to depression from this shutdown? At what point does the damage done outweigh the damage we are preventing. 

Speaking of meat processing plants:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-23/one-hundred-usda-inspectors-have-tested-positive-for-covid-19

Quote

One hundred U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors have tested positive for the coronavirus as the illness ravages the nation's meat processing plants.

The workers are part of the Food Safety and Inspection Service, which employs about 6,500 inspectors, a spokesperson for the agency confirmed Thursday. USDA is taking measures to supply masks to workers, though they currently may need to find them on their own.

The infections among inspectors add to the growing concerns about the safety and viability of the nation's meat supply after several major U.S. factories closed in recent weeks due to outbreaks. USDA inspectors need to be physically present in processing plants to make sure standards for cleanliness and worker protection are being met. Inspectors have been traveling between plants with known infections to other plants.

"A traveling inspector bringing in the disease is our biggest worry," said Mike Callicrate, a rancher, processor and advocate in Kansas.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/coronavirus/article242237811.html

Quote

"I would give them an 'F'," Paula Schelling, acting president of the American Federation of Government Employees Council 45, a union that represents USDA inspectors, told Politico. She and other union leaders told the USDA "it wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when this would all blow up in these food plants. There is no protective equipment, there is no social distancing. Now we are at the when."

While the USDA says it is recommending safety practices based on guidelines from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, unions say companies are implementing those safeguards inconsistently, Politico reported. Unions have asked the USDA to implement uniform guidelines for companies to follow, according to Politico.

Inspectors weren't allowed to wear masks until earlier this month, several inspectors said, because "it would create fear in the workplace," according to Government Executive, a media group covering government business. But that guidance contradicts FSIS's formal health and safety guidelines, which allows inspectors to voluntarily wear masks if they get approval and training from management.

FSIS reportedly told its employees during a teleconference town hall earlier this month that anyone who was exposed to the virus but has not shown symptoms should keep working, Government Executive reported. FSIS confirmed with employees that they should wear gloves and a face mask until they start feeling sick, according to the outlet.

 

What training do you need to wear a mask? Wow. 

18 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Also, how many more die around the world due to the food shortages? How many more die from suicide, drug overdoses or subsequent damage from drugs due to depression from this shutdown? At what point does the damage done outweigh the damage we are preventing. 

How many have committed suicide from being home for a month? How many OD'd because of this? It's nothing but a talking point. Blowing off social distancing would blow any of those death counts away.  And those numbers would just get worse as well. Even while being stuck at home, it's blown it away. The plants will be open because that is what Tyson wants. It's not right for the workers. But Trump is playing to CEO's not for heath and safety, but for votes and cash. . Sickening. 

Edited April 28, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

 

20 minutes ago, Texsox said:

What training do you need to wear a mask? Wow. 

30 minutes ago, Texsox said:

They weren't going to vote for Trump anyway. 

It is interesting that meat production would be considered essential. I'm guessing vegetarians would say otherwise. Actually I'm slightly surprised that any agricultural worker would be essential. We are currently a net importer of human food items. We are trying to so hard to build a wall and stop a lot of those ag workers from even getting to the US. If we really feel that the work is essential we should be looking at a guest worker program and allowing them in through the front door. 

 

29 minutes ago, Yearnin' for Yermin said:

Also, how many more die around the world due to the food shortages? How many more die from suicide, drug overdoses or subsequent damage from drugs due to depression from this shutdown? At what point does the damage done outweigh the damage we are preventing. 

We went through this when packaging companies were taken to task in The Jungle.  They swore regulation and common sense would put the price of food out of range of the common person, and it would put farmers out of business.  That never happened.  It is also worth noting that if the President's economic plans hadn't have largely destroyed farming in this country over the past couple of years, the industry wouldn't be in such dire straights already.

To spin this back around, how much death from the food supply are you willing to tolerate, especially with the consequences for those poisonings being largely removed.

18 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How many have committed suicide from being home for a month? How many OD'd because of this? It's nothing but a talking point. Blowing off social distancing would blow any of those death counts away.  And those numbers would just get worse as well. Even while being stuck at home, it's blown it away. The plants will be open because that is what Tyson wants. It's not right for the workers. But Trump is playing to CEO's not for heath and safety, but for votes and cash. . Sickening. 

It also ignores the fact that these types of situations have been life for a long time for a lot of people in poverty.  Now that it is happening to other people, the middle class is taking notice.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

 

 

It amazes me how many "leaders" actually look away from the science.  

testing back up to 14,500 yesterday in illinois. Cases up to 2100, so pretty much at the 15% mark.