11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I'm not ready to make that proclamation yet. 

Gotta see Moncada bounce back and if Robert can lay off balls first, and gotta see if Cease figures it out or Dunning/Kopech emerges on the pitching side. 

They have some good pieces but they're not there yet. 

If Moncada doesn't return somewhere close to 2019 and Robert has a Byron Buxton like early career, it could derail this before it even really got started. 

I believe in Moncada's talent, but his struggles this year makes me less confident in his 2019 being repeatable than I was in June. 

I guess I should have expected you to answer that you only were worried. 

20 minutes ago, soulfly said:

No.  I was referring to the trash 1 and 2 year deals he has signed.  That said, I don't think we needed to sign a catcher last year.  But it is what it is.  It was Hahn being Hahn. 

Like James McCann.

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I guess I should have expected you to answer that you only were worried. 

I wouldn't say I'm worried as much as mildly concerned. 

On August 5th I was almost certain Moncada and Robert were the 2 best players on the team. 

Now, I still believe in both but I have to entertain the possibility they might be bad. I'm still fairly confident in both guys figuring it out next year. 

Edited September 22, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wouldn't say I'm worried as much as mildly concerned. 

On August 5th I was almost certain Moncada and Robert were the 2 best players on the team. 

Now, I still believe in both but I have to entertain the possibility they might be bad. I'm still fairly confident in both guys figuring it out next year. 

come on man. Really?  This is exactly the Overreacting that comes back around.  

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

come on man. Really?  This is exactly the Overreacting that comes back around.  

Is it really overreacting? Both guys look lost at the plate and Moncada hasn't looked like an MLB hitter in 5 weeks. 

Like I said, I don't think it's complete overreaction......there are a little bit of doubts in there, but for the most part I think they'll be fine next year. I don't have any confidence in either guy figuring it out in 2020 though. Is it a bit reactionary? sure. 

I've gone from 95% confidence to 70% confidence. A big dropoff, but allowing for other possibilities. 

Edited September 22, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

Besides the weather factor, today is like June 1st in a regular season. Sometimes guys have bad starts or bad months out of six month season. Besides Encarnacion, who is probably  at the end of the line, I’m not reading too much into anyone’s season. Hell, Mazara will probably get non tendered, but could be all star for somebody else in 3 years. 

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Is it really overreacting? Both guys look lost at the plate and Moncada hasn't looked like an MLB hitter in 5 weeks. 

Like I said, I don't think it's complete overreaction......there are a little bit of doubts in there, but for the most part I think they'll be fine next year. I don't have any confidence in either guy figuring it out in 2020 though. Is it a bit reactionary? sure. 

I've gone from 95% confidence to 70% confidence. A big dropoff, but allowing for other possibilities. 

Yes it is.  Yoan Moncada didn't just forget how to hit, especially when it is painfully obvious what his issue is.

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Yes it is.  Yoan Moncada didn't just forget how to hit, especially when it is painfully obvious what his issue is.

I don't disagree, but there are a bit of doubts there given that he doesn't have a long track record of success. 

I'm more concerned that the power outage could stick for longer than just 2020(covid aftereffects) than he suddenly forgot how to hit. 

Nobody knows much about covid and when an elite athlete gets PCS how it affects their performance long-term. 

Edited September 22, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

11 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wouldn't say I'm worried as much as mildly concerned. 

On August 5th I was almost certain Moncada and Robert were the 2 best players on the team. 

Now, I still believe in both but I have to entertain the possibility they might be bad. I'm still fairly confident in both guys figuring it out next year. 

I don’t think they’ll be bad. Luis is an excellent CF. Moncada is a good 3B. Both are aggressive hitters and will be more prone to slumps. This short season is going to make some people look worse than they are and some will look better.

33 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wouldn't say I'm worried as much as mildly concerned. 

On August 5th I was almost certain Moncada and Robert were the 2 best players on the team. 

Now, I still believe in both but I have to entertain the possibility they might be bad. I'm still fairly confident in both guys figuring it out next year. 

lol

you crack me up, jack. 

Edited September 22, 20205 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

lol

you crack me up, jack. 

Like I said I still think they're going to be fine but I'm not 100% sure anymore. 

How long will it take Moncada to recover from PCS? That is the question. 

Edited September 23, 20205 yr by Jack Parkman

12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Like I said I still think they're going to be fine but I'm not 100% sure anymore. 

How long will it take Moncada to recover from PCS? That is the question. 

Well it took red faber a year to recover from the spanish flu.  So hopefully less than that

The last thing anyone should do is unfairly judge Moncada this season with his health issues.  He undoubtably gets a pass from me and I hope he does from everyone else.  
 

Robert might look like a completely different hitter if he had some protection behind him.  He’s still so incredibly young that he gets a full pass from me as well for the rest of the year.  We know what he can do and it takes young hitters time to adjust in the big leagues. But he could get a possible boost out of his rut with a lineup change.  

8 minutes ago, jamesdiego said:

The last thing anyone should do is unfairly judge Moncada this season with his health issues.  He undoubtably gets a pass from me and I hope he does from everyone else.  
 

Robert might look like a completely different hitter if he had some protection behind him.  He’s still so incredibly young that he gets a full pass from me as well for the rest of the year.  We know what he can do and it takes young hitters time to adjust in the big leagues. But he could get a possible boost out of his rut with a lineup change.  

Robert looks like he's trying to hit the ball 600+ feet every swing. 

23 minutes ago, jamesdiego said:

The last thing anyone should do is unfairly judge Moncada this season with his health issues.  He undoubtably gets a pass from me and I hope he does from everyone else.  
 

Robert might look like a completely different hitter if he had some protection behind him.  He’s still so incredibly young that he gets a full pass from me as well for the rest of the year.  We know what he can do and it takes young hitters time to adjust in the big leagues. But he could get a possible boost out of his rut with a lineup change.  

I disagree but I digress.

18 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Like James McCann.

Hey hey, congrats on finding one of the few one or two year deals that worked out.  And you know damn well he lucked into that one. 

I mean, it's all right here in this article, if you can stomach seeing all this in fine print.  I would advise against it if you've just eaten. 

 

https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/11/08/avert-your-eyes-an-accounting-of-white-sox-free-agents-in-the-rick-hahn-era/

1 minute ago, soulfly said:

Hey hey, congrats on finding one of the few one or two year deals that worked out.  And you know damn well he lucked into that one. 

I mean, it's all right here in this article, if you can stomach seeing all this in fine print.  I would advise against it if you've just eaten. 

 

https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/11/08/avert-your-eyes-an-accounting-of-white-sox-free-agents-in-the-rick-hahn-era/

Right.  Disqualify anything good, reframe the argument for only the bad.

2 minutes ago, soulfly said:

Hey hey, congrats on finding one of the few one or two year deals that worked out.  And you know damn well he lucked into that one. 

I mean, it's all right here in this article, if you can stomach seeing all this in fine print.  I would advise against it if you've just eaten. 

 

https://www.soxmachine.com/2019/11/08/avert-your-eyes-an-accounting-of-white-sox-free-agents-in-the-rick-hahn-era/

Yes, it's been horrid... But... They've also almost all been 1 year deals for nothing... The real issue is that we've tried very little to sign actually important guys (apart from 2015).

Just now, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Yes, it's been horrid... But... They've also almost all been 1 year deals for nothing... The real issue is that we've tried very little to sign actually important guys (apart from 2015).

And for most of those years, they haven't been looking to do anything but fill the roster up around a rebuilding team.

It also goes without saying that guys who are signing 1 to 2 years typically aren't very good.  If they were good, they were going to be signing longer term deals.  This seems obvious, but guys who are signing these deals aren't prime free agents.

9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Right.  Disqualify anything good, reframe the argument for only the bad.

I never said disqualify it.  If you think Hahn is doing a great job in free agency based on that one hit when it comes to free agency, then that's great for you.  The reality he hasn't hit on the vast majority of them.  Besides, going back to what I originally said, he made numerous comments in interviews on how he wasn't going to sign veteran stop gap type players and then did exactly that.  That's what my gripe was with.

 

2 minutes ago, soulfly said:

I never said disqualify it.  If you think Hahn is doing a great job in free agency based on that one hit when it comes to free agency, then that's great for you.  The reality he hasn't hit on the vast majority of them.  Besides, going back to what I originally said, he made numerous comments in interviews on how he wasn't going to sign veteran stop gap type players and then did exactly that.  That's what my gripe was with.

 

Who out there is hitting on the "vast majority" of 1 year deals?

2 minutes ago, soulfly said:

I never said disqualify it.  If you think Hahn is doing a great job in free agency based on that one hit when it comes to free agency, then that's great for you.  The reality he hasn't hit on the vast majority of them.  Besides, going back to what I originally said, he made numerous comments in interviews on how he wasn't going to sign veteran stop gap type players and then did exactly that.  That's what my gripe was with.

 

I think he hit on Grandal and Keuchel, who were the top two players he signed when we were actually trying to be good.

13 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Yes, it's been horrid... But... They've also almost all been 1 year deals for nothing... The real issue is that we've tried very little to sign actually important guys (apart from 2015).

Yea, which is great that they were one year deals most of the time.  But it was just wasted money and in some cases blocking a spot for young guys who should be getting playing time instead.

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

Who out there is hitting on the "vast majority" of 1 year deals?

Dude, you're arguing just to argue.  I said numerous times what my issue was with the stop gaps in that he said he wasn't going to be signing those guys.  If you think Hahn is great when in comes to Free Agency, then awesome!

Just now, soulfly said:

Dude, you're arguing just to argue.  I said numerous times what my issue was with the stop gaps in that he said he wasn't going to be signing those guys.  If you think Hahn is great when in comes to Free Agency, then awesome!

I think your expectations here are out of line.  No one is going to hit on the "vast majority" of these types of signings.  Guys who are signing 1 year deals are signing them because they weren't good enough for long term deals.  So why the surprise when they don't put up big numbers?  This is the lottery ticket section of free agency.  This is where you finish filling and balancing your roster out for a particular year.  Expecting Miguel Gonzalez types of signings to put up big WAR seasons is totally misunderstanding what these signings are for.