Would a package of Madrigal, Cease, Steiver, and Adolfo be enough to land Marquez?

And what would it take to land Darvish? It’s gotta be less than what it would take to get Marquez, considering the money owed and his age, right?

Not sure how I’d feel about a Darvish trade.  Obviously the dude was amazing last year, but you’re paying $59M for his age 34 to 36 seasons.  Don’t get me wrong, I’d definitely be interested in acquiring, just worried about the price and the potential for a sudden fall-off or injury.

1 minute ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Not sure how I’d feel about a Darvish trade.  Obviously the dude was amazing last year, but you’re paying $59M for his age 34 to 36 seasons.  Don’t get me wrong, I’d definitely be interested in acquiring, just worried about the price and the potential for a sudden fall-off or injury.

Watching him last two years, I would take him. He’s craft enough to where he can be effective even if velocity drops a bit.  I don’t think for a second the Cubs would have interest in Madrigal being a main piece.

1 hour ago, maloney.adam said:

I wouldn’t worry about this too much. It sounds like all these guys are at the bottom of their list or a backup in case their plans don’t work out. That’s how I read the tweet.

Problem is, that's usually the scenario we tend to end up in.

21 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Would a package of Madrigal, Cease, Steiver, and Adolfo be enough to land Marquez?

And what would it take to land Darvish? It’s gotta be less than what it would take to get Marquez, considering the money owed and his age, right?

Why the fuck would anyone wanna trade all that for Marquez? What did I miss? Am I ignorant and he's actually an elite starter? Even for Darvish, all that is a ridiculous overpay. 

What is with all these ridiculous Madrigal, Cease++ trade proposals lately? Jesus. These guys are our future. 

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

11 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Problem is, that's usually the scenario we tend to end up in.

Well, we didn’t last year with signing Kuechel. Yes, we lost Wheeler but we didn’t lose out by much. What makes you think this year will be different? The uncertainty of the virus? JR’s history of not willing to open up his wallet?

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

Well, we didn’t last year with signing Kuechel. Yes, we lost Wheeler but we didn’t lose out by much. What makes you think this year will be different? The uncertainty of the virus? JR not not opening up his wallet?

We got lucky with Keuchel. Either way, yes, that is exactly what happened to us last season. Dallas working out doesn't change that.

The reason why I’m so confident in the Sox spending this offseason is Merkin thinks they will spend and usually when he says they will, they usually do. He has the inside track to information inside the organization.

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

The reason why I’m so confident in the Sox spending this offseason is Merkin thinks they will spend and usually when he says they will, they usually do. He has the inside track to information inside the organization along with Bruce Levine. 

You lost me with Bruce Levine.....

7 minutes ago, HahnsKiddieTable said:

You lost me with Bruce Levine.....

I went back and edited the post. Your correct, Bruce Levine is an outlet for the organization to leak stuff.

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

Bruce Levine sucks, unless he’s reporting Sox stuff. Dude definitely is connected to our FO

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by Orlando

27 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Why the fuck would anyone wanna trade all that for Marquez? What did I miss? Am I ignorant and he's actually an elite starter? Even for Darvish, all that is a ridiculous overpay. 

What is with all these ridiculous Madrigal, Cease++ trade proposals lately? Jesus. These guys are our future. 

Obviously that is an overpay for Darvish. It will take more to land Marquez than it will to land Darvish. 

I think you are underestimating what it will take to get Marquez. Think back to what we got for Quintana. That’s similar to what it will take to land Marquez. I guarantee Colorado will be asking for Vaughn or Kopech. If we could get a deal done without losing either of those two, you have to think about pulling the trigger. 

43 minutes ago, fathom said:

Watching him last two years, I would take him. He’s craft enough to where he can be effective even if velocity drops a bit.  I don’t think for a second the Cubs would have interest in Madrigal being a main piece.

He’s actually the ideal for me. He’s already paid a lot and “post prime” so you won’t need to send out as much in talent, but has shown he can adjust to his body changing and aging and maintain elite production. That’s the kind of trades that have worked out recently. 

3 minutes ago, bmags said:

He’s actually the ideal for me. He’s already paid a lot and “post prime” so you won’t need to send out as much in talent, but has shown he can adjust to his body changing and aging and maintain elite production. That’s the kind of trades that have worked out recently. 

Agreed. What do you guys think we’d have to give up in a Darvish trade? 

1 minute ago, SoxBlanco said:

Agreed. What do you guys think we’d have to give up in a Darvish trade? 

I don’t know to be honest. I’m a little confused at the idea of Theo doing a fire sale and then bowing out next year unless plan is Jed Houer takes over?

The yearly value does decline starting in 21, which is nice as well.

Darvish contract per Cots:

 

 

Yu Darvish rhp
6 years/$126M (2018-23)

• 6 years/$126M (2018-23)
  • signed by Chicago Cubs as a free agent 2/13/18
  • 18:$25M, 19:$20M, 20:$22M, 21:$22M, 22:$19M, 23:$18M
  • may opt out of contract after 2019 season
  • award bonuses: $2M for Cy Young award ($1M for 2nd-5th in vote)
  • perks: club to furnish interpreter
  • no-trade protection: may block deals to all clubs in 2018 and 2019, may block trades to 12 clubs annually from 2020 to 2023

20 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Obviously that is an overpay for Darvish. It will take more to land Marquez than it will to land Darvish. 

I think you are underestimating what it will take to get Marquez. Think back to what we got for Quintana. That’s similar to what it will take to land Marquez. I guarantee Colorado will be asking for Vaughn or Kopech. If we could get a deal done without losing either of those two, you have to think about pulling the trigger. 

No. No way I'm trading all that for Marquez. And I'm not sure why citing an example of another team overpaying somehow makes us overpaying more sensible.

12 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

No. No way I'm trading all that for Marquez. And I'm not sure why citing an example of another team overpaying somehow makes us overpaying more sensible.

What exactly is your argument? Do you think Colorado would trade Marquez for less than the package I listed?  Or are you just not comfortable giving up that package for Marquez?

4 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

What exactly is your argument? Do you think Colorado would trade Marquez for less than the package I listed?  Or are you just not comfortable giving up that package for Marquez?

Again, what another team "wants" or does is entirely besides the point.

The Clevinger trade is a reasonable baseline on what to expect a Marquez trade to look like and Cleveland didn't receive anything remotely close to Madrigal + Cease + Stiever.

Hopefully Portillos answers both of these questions. 

Edited November 16, 20205 yr by maloney.adam

Just now, maxjusttyped said:

The Clevinger trade is a reasonable baseline on what to expect a Marquez trade to look like and Cleveland didn't receive anything remotely close to Madrigal + Cease + Stiever.

Marquez has more team control than Clevinger did when that trade was made.

3 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The Clevinger trade is a reasonable baseline on what to expect a Marquez trade to look like and Cleveland didn't receive anything remotely close to Madrigal + Cease + Stiever.

They’re not even close in terms of value.  Just for reference, Fangraphs has Marquez as the 22nd most valuable player in baseball, while Clevinger isn’t even an honorable mention.  Having four years of team control is worth a ton.

4 minutes ago, RagahRagah said:

Again, what another team "wants" or does is entirely besides the point.

When making a trade, what the other team wants or does is completely relevant. If you aren’t willing to give up the package I listed, then I respect that, and I can understand that. 

But you can’t talk about “overpaying” without taking into consideration what Colorado is willing to do. An overpay is when you give up more than what it would have taken for the other team to say yes.

Let’s say hypothetically that the bare minimum Colorado is willing to accept for Marquez is the exact package I listed. If Colorado is not willing to give up Marquez for less than that, then that’s the cost. You might not like the cost, but that’s what it will cost. An overpay would be giving up Vaughn when you didn’t need to.