3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That is most likely the lateral head of the gastroc which is on top of the plantaris.  Could also be the tendon of the popliteus which is also superficial to the plantaris. 

If you are only moving your toes the flexor digitorum longus attaches just below the knee as well. Just moving your toes will not get a contraction of the plantaris.

Yes you can in fact feel the muscle contract.  Why you’re even disputing this I have no idea. A tendon does not contract like a muscle there is no way I am confusing a tendon for it. Like I said my therapist showed me. You can feel it slightly above the joint, slightly on the outside running slightly diagonally. Maybe you are one of the few who don’t have one

15 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Yes I do because the plantaris extends beyond the base of those muscles. It feels like a relatively thin cord right above the joint. I said I can feel it in post you’re responding to so obviously I think it can be felt. Therapist showed me.

Do I think it would be stressed with larger muscles right there? Yes the other muscles aren’t attached to the plantaris tendon, which is involved in toe gripping. It would be more easily stressed since it isnt normally used much. I really don’t get how you find this anyway controversial

The plantaris has no function in toe gripping.

 

However after reading your posts again, I know where the issue is. You are thinking of the popliteus.  It is a tendon that is easily palpable behind the knee. It's function is to rotate the lower leg which is why you feel it when you bring your toes in. It has no function at the toes but when you internally rotate the whole lower leg ie bring the toes in, it pops out.

This was important to your plantar fasciitis because one way to stress it is too probate the foot which mechanically goes with lower leg internal rotation. The toe flexion comes into play because if you strengthen the intrinsic toe flexors it holds the arch up thus there is less internal rotation of the lower leg and less stress on the popliteus. 

Your posts makes sense if it's the popliteus which is easily palpable and superficial to the plantaris which doesn't function the way you are describing it.

9 minutes ago, ptatc said:

If you found it more power to you. I've never found a reason to do it. However it has nothing to do with toe motion. Just because it theoretically can help with ankle plantar flexion doesn't mean it's active during that motion.

Yes it does man. This is stupid. Are you sure you’re a therapist. You can see the movement of the tendon on the inside of heel/ankle area when forming toe grip and feel the flexion of the muscle above the knee

4 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Yes you can in fact feel the muscle contract.  Why you’re even disputing this I have no idea. A tendon does not contract like a muscle there is no way I am confusing a tendon for it. Like I said my therapist showed me. You can feel it slightly above the joint, slightly on the outside running slightly diagonally. Maybe you are one of the few who don’t have one

Well if your therapist showed you, they couldn't be wrong.

 

Just kidding. Like I said in the previous post. You can't feel the contraction of the plantaris.  Researchers doing EMG needle studies can't reliably find it because of how small and inconsequential it is.

However you can feel the popliteus which is more superficial.

2 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Yes it does man. This is stupid. Are you sure you’re a therapist. You can see the movement of the tendon on the inside of heel/ankle area when forming toe grip and feel the flexion of the muscle above the knee

I've probably been a physical therapist and athletic trainer working with these injuries longer than you've alive. 

You can't feel the plantaris.  But as I said you are probably confusing it with the popliteus that you can palpate.

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by ptatc

You must not read very well because the popliteous is below the joint. As I clearly stated you can feel plantaris a little bit above the joint or crease slightly on the outer half.  I’m done man whatever. As soon as you can stand on the tips of your toes then let me know if you can feel it flexing

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by Vulture

3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I've probably been a physical therapist and athletic trainer working with these injuries longer than you've alive. 

You can't feel the plantaris.  But as I said you are probably confusing it with the popliteus that you can palpate.

i'm fully palpated.

1 minute ago, Vulture said:

Yes it does man. This is stupid. Are you sure you’re a therapist. You can see the movement of the tendon on the inside of heel/ankle area when forming toe grip and feel the flexion of the muscle above the knee

Whoa there cowboy.

3 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Yes it does man. This is stupid. Are you sure you’re a therapist. You can see the movement of the tendon on the inside of heel/ankle area when forming toe grip and feel the flexion of the muscle above the knee

The muscles on the medial/inside of you ankle are the posterior tibialis, flexor hallucis longus and the flexor digitorum longus.  These are separate from the Achilles Tendon group that we have been talking about. Those are easily palpable in the tarsal tunnel that is inferior to the medial malleolus or the ankle bone. Those do originate up near the knee as well. So maybe it's the posterior tibial to which you are referring.  It also plays a significant function holding up your arch and protecting the plantar fascia.

My guess is you mean the posterior tibial if you are palpating it at the ankle.

3 minutes ago, Vulture said:

You must not read very well because the popliteous is below the joint. As I clearly stated you can feel plantaris a little bit above the joint or crease slightly on the outer half.  I’m done man whatever. As soon as you can stand on the tips of your toes then let me know if you can feel it flexing

You do understand you come off as an ass, right?

Approaching hall of fame listing territory though - so go, you!

9 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I've probably been a physical therapist and athletic trainer working with these injuries longer than you've alive. 

You can't feel the plantaris.  But as I said you are probably confusing it with the popliteus that you can palpate.

at 0:55

is your claim that you can feel the popliteus at the location at which he is setting his thumb? That would be odd considering it isn’t located there

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by Vulture

3 minutes ago, Vulture said:

You must not read very well because the popliteous is below the joint. As I clearly stated you can feel plantaris a little bit above the joint or crease slightly on the outer half.  I’m done man whatever. As soon as you can stand on the tips of your toes then let me know if you can feel it flexing

It crosses the joint and is easily palpable in the lateral aspect of the joint.

Ive read and studied it plenty. I've also been present during surgeries on it (common issue in runners) and rehabbed a number of them.

I know you have a little information and went to therapy but I think you are confused on the muscle because you can't palpate with any confidence the plantaris.

 

2 minutes ago, hi8is said:

You do understand you come off as an ass, right?

Approaching hall of fame listing territory though - so go, you!

Sure if you ignore the fact what I have said is true and was rebuffed by false claims 

2 minutes ago, Vulture said:

at 0:55

is your claim that you can feel the popliteus at the location at which he is setting his thumb? That would be odd considering it isn’t located there

It is located in the lateral joint area near where the planteris is. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Just now, Vulture said:

Sure if you ignore the fact what I have said is true and was rebuffed by false claims 

No. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were mistaking the muscle.

You can't move the gastroc out of the way and palpate the plantaris with any confidence.

10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

i'm fully palpated.

Always enjoyable.

7 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Sure if you ignore the fact what I have said is true and was rebuffed by false claims 

Let's make deal. I will no longer attempt to help you understand injuries.  And will no longer respond to any post regarding them so we no longer have any more of these drawn out discussions. I've only been trying to help.

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by ptatc

6 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Sure if you ignore the fact what I have said is true and was rebuffed by false claims 

An ass is an ass and you’re being one. So am I though by pointing this out, so I’ll stop. Why don’t you as well?

22 minutes ago, ptatc said:

The plantaris has no function in toe gripping.

 

However after reading your posts again, I know where the issue is. You are thinking of the popliteus.  It is a tendon that is easily palpable behind the knee. It's function is to rotate the lower leg which is why you feel it when you bring your toes in. It has no function at the toes but when you internally rotate the whole lower leg ie bring the toes in, it pops out.

This was important to your plantar fasciitis because one way to stress it is too probate the foot which mechanically goes with lower leg internal rotation. The toe flexion comes into play because if you strengthen the intrinsic toe flexors it holds the arch up thus there is less internal rotation of the lower leg and less stress on the popliteus. 

Your posts makes sense if it's the popliteus which is easily palpable and superficial to the plantaris which doesn't function the way you are describing it.

Pronate?  Unless there’s a new medical term which sounds like a legal one, haha.

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Pronate?  Unless there’s a new medical term which sounds like a legal one, haha.

Pronation is the movement of the hand or wrist. 

In the wrist it's taking your hand with the palm up and turning it so the hand it down.

In the foot it's lowering the arch and flattening the heel.

The action word is to pronate the body segment.

Edited July 8, 20214 yr by ptatc

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Pronate?  Unless there’s a new medical term which sounds like a legal one, haha.

They’ve really intended to be discussing the prostrate but autocorrect has been mucking up the waters.

2 minutes ago, hi8is said:

They’ve really intended to be discussing the prostrate but autocorrect has been mucking up the waters.

Let me tell you what we use rubber gloves for........

Seriously, look up internal coccygeal manipulation. Not one of the more fun parts of the job.

I recently went to a PT for my back and also stayed at a Holiday Inn. I officially know more about physical therapy than ptatc. Please direct your questions my way. 

29 minutes ago, Vulture said:

Yes it does man. This is stupid. Are you sure you’re a therapist. You can see the movement of the tendon on the inside of heel/ankle area when forming toe grip and feel the flexion of the muscle above the knee

No idea who you are but @ptatc has earned respect on this board. You need to chill out.

15 minutes ago, ptatc said:

It is located in the lateral joint area near where the planteris is. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt.

I asked is it located where he puts his thumb. Of course it is not, which is probably when you didn’t answer, no? At the location he placed the thumb it is not possible.

clearly that is not the location he is pointing nor to which i am referring. Why you are pretending otherwise I don’t know