6 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Let's say for a moment that Harbaugh (or anyone) was a team's dream head coach heading into the off season. Owners were all in. Front office was all in. The fan base was all in. Most importantly Harbaugh was all in. 

Why interview anyone else? 

While I am 100% for the goal, I believe it is what's best for society and the NFL, the sham interview isn't getting us there because there are times that good people would be set on a non POC for their head coach or GM from the beginning for sound football and business reasons.  I don't have a better solution that can be mandated, I think if there was one it would have already been implemented. And we all know that great coaches are being looked over which is insulting to fans as well as potential coaches. We just need to find a better way to achieve that goal. 

Give me a break.  Until the Rooney rule that's all the owners did is hire the guy they wanted and most of the time he was white.  Letting them do whatever the hell they want in the name of "well people figured out how to game the Rooney rule anyways" isn't the solution

23 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Gruden is the reason he asked for that amount and also most likely the reason they were like "um no"

So this creates an interesting question…would people do that contract for Harbaugh?

I am almost certain i wouldn’t, and It’s the years more than the money. Too many reasons why things might not work even with a good coach.

9 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Give me a break.  Until the Rooney rule that's all the owners did is hire the guy they wanted and most of the time he was white.  Letting them do whatever the hell they want in the name of "well people figured out how to game the Rooney rule anyways" isn't the solution

I guess you didn't read my full post. Bummer. No, letting them do whatever they want isn't a solution, I never said it was. never advocated for it. It's about the stupidest thing I could think of doing.  

What I'm saying is we need something better than the Rooney rule. I don't think the Rooney rule is working, does anyone?

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

So this creates an interesting question…would people do that contract for Harbaugh?

I am almost certain i wouldn’t, and It’s the years more than the money. Too many reasons why things might not work even with a good coach.

I'm almost certain I wouldn't. Especially when the Bears probably would keep putting him out there until the end of the contract no matter what. Here's an interesting question, if you were writing the check, is there any coach alive you would give that amount to? 

12 minutes ago, Texsox said:

No it's not. What I'm saying is we need something better than the Rooney rule. I don't think the Rooney rule is working,  do you?

I think removing it would be worse, don't you?  Better to have a foot in the door than the door locked

13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

So this creates an interesting question…would people do that contract for Harbaugh?

I am almost certain i wouldn’t, and It’s the years more than the money. Too many reasons why things might not work even with a good coach.

I said earlier you pay that money and don't worry about it, and I stand by that.  Not my decision though 

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

So at what point do we drop the name Willie Harris in the context of bad faith interviews to satisfy a rule built to improve minority hiring?

See I think this is where there is gray area. Willie was hired to be a 3rd base coach after that, and is now much closer to being a manager. Who knows if this was a helpful way to raise his profile. 

I would do that contract for harbaugh. If he starts not to work out you are screwed, but if he merely wants to change jobs there is a good chance some Texas A&M booster will try to buy him out of the contract.

OR the McCaskeys are paying a $10mm fine for being bad owners. 

8 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think removing it would be worse, don't you?  Better to have a foot in the door than the door locked

I agree with where you are going. But consider this. Worse than what we have now? Only Mike Tomlin and Ron Rivera? Removing it without something better in place would be worse. But I don't think it's done anything other than some window dressing. Replacing the Rooney rule with something better should be a priority of the NFL. 

14 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I said earlier you pay that money and don't worry about it, and I stand by that.  Not my decision though 

Exactly. If the Bears would think of it as $100 mil / 5 years with the last five for free (and be willing to move on if it wasn't working), I could see it working. But IMHO they would stubbornly hang on until the contract was up before making a move. 

As I said earlier I don't have a better solution all figured out but I will toss a start of an idea and see if smarter people than I can work with it. What if in addition to the Rooney Rule they put in place a rule to increase the number of POC coaches in the league? Let's build the NFL coaching staff better. If I was a POC I'm not certain I would want a career that leads nowhere. So we need to keep the pressure on the GM and HC positions but also fill the ranks with coaches. 

As a kid who grew up in the 60s and 70s I'm just crushed that we would be having this conversation forty years after I left high school. The future looked so much better back then. My generation failed to make this better other than requiring sham interviews. 

1 minute ago, Texsox said:

I agree with where you are going. But consider this. Worse than what we have now? Only Mike Tomlin and Ron Rivera? Removing it without something better in place would be worse. But I don't think it's done anything other than some window dressing. Replacing the Rooney rule with something better should be a priority of the NFL. 

I was going through this on twitter today and what is interesting is looking at Baseball.

Baseball has been improving its representation of minority managers with Roberts, Baker and then Martinez, Cora, Marmol, Montoyo. That's not overwhelming but it has been an area of improvement and coaching staffs in general are improving in adding more spanish-speaking among other things.

Meanwhile, it's front offices have reversed.

In NFL, it's front offices are at a high point of minority talent with Holmes, Poles, Berry, fontenot, Mayhew, and now Adofo-Mensah. Again not incredible percentage but improving and Khan potentially being a shared executive in PIT.

In Baseball, the move to ivy league/hedge fund types that could throw their life into low level entry positions and move up severely limited the pool of minority talent available. Players were shut out. 

In football, there has been a move to QB coaches to Head Coaches, and QB coaches as former QBs, which again goes to a pool where black QBs were really pushed out of historically. 

This year we may be 1 of 2 teams to hire a defensive coach, where black (or even Desai as Indian American) representaiton is many. 

Its kinda brutal, where for coaching in football or front office in baseball, even if you find yourself into positions of power in the teams it's not the right kind of power to move up.

9 minutes ago, bmags said:

See I think this is where there is gray area. Willie was hired to be a 3rd base coach after that, and is now much closer to being a manager. Who knows if this was a helpful way to raise his profile. 

Oh it was absolutely both, useful to him and a sham interview. Flores has probably had those too, here there was just a paper trail.

51 minutes ago, Texsox said:

I'm almost certain I wouldn't. Especially when the Bears probably would keep putting him out there until the end of the contract no matter what. Here's an interesting question, if you were writing the check, is there any coach alive you would give that amount to? 

Sunk Cost Fallacy.

 

20 minutes ago, Texsox said:

As I said earlier I don't have a better solution all figured out but I will toss a start of an idea and see if smarter people than I can work with it. What if in addition to the Rooney Rule they put in place a rule to increase the number of POC coaches in the league? Let's build the NFL coaching staff better. If I was a POC I'm not certain I would want a career that leads nowhere. So we need to keep the pressure on the GM and HC positions but also fill the ranks with coaches. 

As a kid who grew up in the 60s and 70s I'm just crushed that we would be having this conversation forty years after I left high school. The future looked so much better back then. My generation failed to make this better other than requiring sham interviews. 

How about responding to the one thing that owners do respond to... money?  Set up some revenue stream or payment flow which kicks in more cash as the percentage of minority leadership grows to certain thresholds.

I would pay $100MM over 10 years to the following coaches:

Would give ownership to:

- Belicheck (obviously)

$25MM/yr+

- Shanahan

- Reid

- Payton

10yr $100MM

- McVay

- J Harbaughs

- Tomlin

Arians no just because he already retired but maybe yes

In that order. John H/Tomlin are a little curious to me just because they have the strongest supporting orgs around them. I don't know if they could own the org.

 

36 minutes ago, bmags said:

See I think this is where there is gray area. Willie was hired to be a 3rd base coach after that, and is now much closer to being a manager. Who knows if this was a helpful way to raise his profile. 

When it comes to the White Sox their history of innovation and integration holds up better than pretty much anyone else in baseball.  Their track record makes me trust them more than just words and interviews do.

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sunk Cost Fallacy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_cost

I thought I knew what it meant. LOL 

1 minute ago, southsider2k5 said:

When it comes to the White Sox their history of innovation and integration holds up better than pretty much anyone else in baseball.  Their track record makes me trust them more than just words and interviews do.

One of the cornerstone reasons I am proud to be a Sox fan. 

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

 

How about responding to the one thing that owners do respond to... money?  Set up some revenue stream or payment flow which kicks in more cash as the percentage of minority leadership grows to certain thresholds.

I like it. 

Andrew Janocko as QB coach.

I really like this hire. Didn't know him before a week ago, so my feelings are intense and strong and well-reasoned.

But I like that he was a coach around the whole offense and was a former QB.  He coached Justin Jefferson as his WR coach. He coached Kirk Cousins this year and cousins had the lowest INT rate of his career with the most yards in 16 games 

https://purpleptsd.com/minnesotas-offensive-coordinator-solution-may-already-be-under-contract/

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Andrew Janocko as QB coach.

I really like this hire. Didn't know him before a week ago, so my feelings are intense and strong and well-reasoned.

But I like that he was a coach around the whole offense and was a former QB.  He coached Justin Jefferson as his WR coach. He coached Kirk Cousins this year and cousins had the lowest INT rate of his career with the most yards in 16 games 

https://purpleptsd.com/minnesotas-offensive-coordinator-solution-may-already-be-under-contract/

Aaron Leming was pinning for this guy from the start. I'm sure he's very happy with this move.

12 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Aaron Leming was pinning for this guy from the start. I'm sure he's very happy with this move.

He seems like if our world goes well and people like our offense that he'd be the prime guy to take over with his experience across OL, WR and QB.

34 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

When it comes to the White Sox their history of innovation and integration holds up better than pretty much anyone else in baseball.  Their track record makes me trust them more than just words and interviews do.

See this just isn’t ok. With the White Sox we have a case of their owner wanting to hire his old white guy at any cost and the org conducting a clear sham interview. It was blatant at the time and frankly more obvious than the Giants would have been without the texts. 

You either can act in a just way every time or not, and when an owner decides to advantage the old white guy, he should be called out for it. He does get to build up nonracist credits that he can cash in when the time is right to do a racism. The sham interview should have him being lumped in with the Giants, Texans, Dolphins, etc, not praised because he didn’t do it every time.

20 minutes ago, bmags said:

Andrew Janocko as QB coach.

I really like this hire. Didn't know him before a week ago, so my feelings are intense and strong and well-reasoned.

But I like that he was a coach around the whole offense and was a former QB.  He coached Justin Jefferson as his WR coach. He coached Kirk Cousins this year and cousins had the lowest INT rate of his career with the most yards in 16 games 

https://purpleptsd.com/minnesotas-offensive-coordinator-solution-may-already-be-under-contract/

I am very good with this. Cousins quietly had the best season of his career (or at least close to it) and the only reason Vikings stunk was because their defense was a sieve.