Retooling / quasi-rebuild

[ron883]

Bump!

[chitownsportsfan]

But one time a bad team with a -50 RD turned it around! Nah, play the percentages. Sell off Gio, maybe Lance, see what you can get for Kimbrel and whoever else has any value in a package.

[Balta1701]

1 minute ago, chitownsportsfan said:

But one time a bad team with a -50 RD turned it around! Nah, play the percentages. Sell off Gio, maybe Lance, see what you can get for Kimbrel and whoever else has any value in a package.

Honestly the Dodgers might do Kimbrel for Pollock again?

[chitownsportsfan]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

Honestly the Dodgers might do Kimbrel for Pollock again?

touche. Trade that aussie as well we got.

[Southwest Sider]

I honestly dont like this team/organization as a group right now, we have some nice players but at this point the constant injuries cannot just be bad luck or what we were due to have happen in the post Herm Schneider era.

Players are underperforming their potential by a significant amount. It's actually kind of alarming how bad it is, and this season is already getting to the point where instead of looking forward to better luck and players playing better, you start to wonder if they will just basically continue being a .500 club Supported by great pitching. 

I wouldn't be opposed to a rebuild again as a lot of the assets we have would get significant prospects but only under the new ownership condition which is not happening. 

I guess we just gotta hope that everyone gets healthy and this team melts faces for a few months. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

But one time a bad team with a -50 RD turned it around! Nah, play the percentages. Sell off Gio, maybe Lance, see what you can get for Kimbrel and whoever else has any value in a package.

Hendriks and Bummer…try to throw Kelly into mix if he ever returns in time.

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, South Sider said:

I honestly dont like this team/organization as a group right now, we have some nice players but at this point the constant injuries cannot just be bad luck or what we were due to have happen in the post Herm Schneider era.

Players are underperforming their potential by a significant amount. It's actually kind of alarming how bad it is, and this season is already getting to the point where instead of looking forward to better luck and players playing better, you start to wonder if they will just basically continue being a .500 club Supported by great pitching. 

I wouldn't be opposed to a rebuild again as a lot of the assets we have would get significant prospects but only under the new ownership condition which is not happening. 

I guess we just gotta hope that everyone gets healthy and this team melts faces for a few months. 

At least TLR Hahn Hostetler not making any of the key personnel decisions…

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

touche. Trade that aussie as well we got.

Unfortunately I think there is a very strong argument that Hendriks is unmovable, or at best returns so little that it isn’t worth it.

• The market for $13 million closers is already small.
• He has 2.5 years and nearly $40 million remaining. You don’t get much for a closer making that money no matter how good he is.
• Rick Hahn’s idiotic fourth year option screws with the tax number, so the 4th year is counted on the tax in years 123. That means for the Dodgers or Mets or Phillies or Red Sox, his tax number next year is $18 million!
• If you try to trade him this time next year, I believe there’s a good chance his 2024 is tax free. That could be a big discount for teams like that. (If I’m wrong on this, then Rich Hahn managed to create a $54 million contract with a $69 million tax number, which would be extra brilliant).
• Graveman has been almost as good and is paid half as much. There’s a guy who might bring something strong back.

[caulfield12]

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/34020829/nba-finals-2022-grueling-expensive-risky-reconstruction-golden-state-warriors
 

There’s a lot of inspiration here for the Sox….unfortunately we don’t have a Kerr, the remains of a championship core with five years of recorded brilliance, GM Myers, Curry’s willingness to tolerate losing with a bigger vision in mind, massive fanbase and goodwill earned, etc.

But reconstruction might be the best possible term for what is needed…bottoming out over a two year period and rebounding to championship level quickly.

Where are our own versions of  Jordan Poole, James Wiseman, Kuminga and Wiggins, lol?

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unfortunately I think there is a very strong argument that Hendriks is unmovable, or at best returns so little that it isn’t worth it.

• The market for $13 million closers is already small.
• He has 2.5 years and nearly $40 million remaining. You don’t get much for a closer making that money no matter how good he is.
• Rick Hahn’s idiotic fourth year option screws with the tax number, so the 4th year is counted on the tax in years 123. That means for the Dodgers or Mets or Phillies or Red Sox, his tax number next year is $18 million!
• If you try to trade him this time next year, I believe there’s a good chance his 2024 is tax free. That could be a big discount for teams like that. (If I’m wrong on this, then Rich Hahn managed to create a $54 million contract with a $69 million tax number, which would be extra brilliant).
• Graveman has been almost as good and is paid half as much. There’s a guy who might bring something strong back.

 

• 2024 club option includes a $15M buyout (deferred over 10 years)
• Didn’t even realize this until now…always thought it was just three years.  Sigh.

[tray]

 I think JR has to seriously consider promoting  TLR to some advisory position and hiring Ozzie to Manage the team for the rest of the season. 

After that, some changes have to be made to the roster...some DFAs, some demotions to and promotions from the Minors, perhaps a trade or two.

No matter who you blame, it seems that the Sox just do not match up talent-wise with the top teams in the AL.  I am not sure that can be addressed during this season.

Hard to blame Hahn or anyone else for Keuchel, Harrison, Pollock, Grandal, Moncada, etc. under-performing.

So the Sox are not contenders this season. Try to enjoy watching the games anyway.

 

[Tony]

4 minutes ago, tray said:

 I think JR has to seriously consider promoting  TLR to some advisory position and hiring Ozzie to Manage the team for the rest of the season. 

After that, some changes have to be made to the roster...some DFAs, some demotions to and promotions from the Minors, perhaps a trade or two.

No matter who you blame, it seems that the Sox just do not match up talent-wise with the top teams in the AL.  I am not sure that can be addressed during this season.

Hard to blame Hahn or anyone else for Keuchel, Harrison, Pollock, Grandal, Moncada, etc. under-performing.

So the Sox are not contenders this season. Try to enjoy watching the games anyway.

 

[tray]

Start by respecting other posters and their opinions.

[reiks12]

I didnt want to make another thread for this, but if the White Sox signed BOTH Harper and Machado then the team payroll would still be less than the Mets, Dodgers, and Yankees. Thought that was hilarious considering the "money will be spent" and "there will be a world championship parade" comments. They account for almost 5 WAR this season alone already. 

Would have been nice, of course thats only if we had an owner that gave a shit.

[caulfield12]

43 minutes ago, tray said:

 I think JR has to seriously consider promoting  TLR to some advisory position and hiring Ozzie to Manage the team for the rest of the season. 

After that, some changes have to be made to the roster...some DFAs, some demotions to and promotions from the Minors, perhaps a trade or two.

No matter who you blame, it seems that the Sox just do not match up talent-wise with the top teams in the AL.  I am not sure that can be addressed during this season.

Hard to blame Hahn or anyone else for Keuchel, Harrison, Pollock, Grandal, Moncada, etc. under-performing.

So the Sox are not contenders this season. Try to enjoy watching the games anyway.

 

When does he ever get blamed when only 15-20% of his moves actually work out in the real world?

A really good GM needs to be at 55-60% success.

Edited June 3, 2022 by caulfield12

[reiks12]

46 minutes ago, tray said:

 Hard to blame Hahn or anyone else for Keuchel, Harrison, Pollock, Grandal, Moncada, etc. under-performing.

Yes and no, its weird that none of his signings are overperforming (or just perform comparatively to their career norms) . Theres something amiss. How do the Giants get Pederson and he goes off like he is? When have we had an offensive player do anything even close to that? Is it an organizational problem? Analytics? How can anyone possibly explain just how bad free agents do when they put on the Sox uniform?

His extensions were good, but the players havent done anything there either. Moncada, Eloy, what the shit.

Edited June 3, 2022 by reiks12

[Jack Parkman]

There are only two choices: Stay the course or full rebuild. 

The only players with trade value are those that you want to build around in a retool. 

The guys that you'd want to trade, the best that you'd get is some salary relief, and that's only if the team paid half or more of the contracts. 

I don't have any answers, but if I were making the decisions I'd fire everyone and blow it up, hope that some of the players having bad years rebound next year and trade them too, if there is value to be had. 

Edited June 3, 2022 by Jack Parkman

[caulfield12]

34 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

Yes and no, its weird that none of his signings are overperforming (or just perform comparatively to their career norms) . Theres something amiss. How do the Giants get Pederson and he goes off like he is? When have we had an offensive player do anything even close to that? Is it an organizational problem? Analytics? How can anyone possibly explain just how bad free agents do when they put on the Sox uniform?

His extensions were good, but the players havent done anything there either. Moncada, Eloy, what the shit.

They never even gave Luis Gonzalez a real look.  He goes to SF suddenly an everyday corner OFer.  The exact positions we have been struggling just to get just below average but not cataclysmic ally bad D.

We brought in Goodwin Hamilton Nick Williams, never a thought to our own guy.

Edited June 3, 2022 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

How about with what's her name?

[Tony]

11 hours ago, tray said:

Start by respecting other posters and their opinions.

Respect is earned. Your posting history here is about on par with Rick Hahn's record of signing FA's over 30......

But just to be clear, my response was to you wanting to...wait for it...give Tony La Russa a promotion, then wondering who to blame for signing Josh Harrison, Dallas Keuchel, trading for AJ Pollock, with the cherry on top of telling Sox fans to suck it up and enjoy watching the games anyway!