1 minute ago, DirtySox said:

I'm already impressed by Chappy's approach/patience at the plate.

 

The bullpen games in Charlotte are back, baby.

4 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The bullpen games in Charlotte are back, baby.

I can't bring myself to watch with Burger/Sosa up at the moment. Probably only worth tuning in for Burke/Martin starts.

Sox missed a chance to have Cannon pitching for the Cannon Ballers 

33 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

I can't bring myself to watch with Burger/Sosa up at the moment. Probably only worth tuning in for Burke/Martin starts.

I don't want to be the overly negative guy, but the lack of depth throughout the org is painful.

1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said:

I don't want to be the overly negative guy, but the lack of depth throughout the org is painful.

It's certainly a valid criticism.

1 minute ago, maxjusttyped said:

I don't want to be the overly negative guy, but the lack of depth throughout the org is painful.

I’m using the like button more than ever, as I respect dirty and others too much to pollute these threads unless it’s something possibly positive or interesting.  With that said, it’s awful.

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

I’m using the like button more than ever, as I respect dirty and others too much to pollute these threads unless it’s something possibly positive or interesting.  With that said, it’s awful.

Haha. It's okay to speak your mind. I respect you as a poster. I just don't get anything out of a certain set of meatball posters that have nothing insightful or thoughtful to post. They are an echo chamber of non value added s%*# posts. Luckily most of those people don't have the sufficient attention span or enough interest in following the minors/prospects.

Just now, DirtySox said:

Haha. It's okay to speak your mind. I respect you as a poster. I just don't get anything out of a certain set of meatball posters that have nothing insightful or thoughtful to post. They are an echo chamber of non value added s%*# posts. Luckily most of those people don't have the sufficient attention span or enough interest in following the minors/prospects.

With Montgomery, Schultz and Ramos out, it almost seems like the Sox lineup

Just now, fathom said:

With Montgomery, Schultz and Ramos out, it almost seems like the Sox lineup

The amount of top prospects starting the season on the IL is definitely a bummer. Kanny also just seems so bereft of talent/interesting guys.

4 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

The amount of top prospects starting the season on the IL is definitely a bummer. Kanny also just seems so bereft of talent/interesting guys.

McDougal pitches Thursday for Kanny and I can't wait.

6 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

McDougal pitches Thursday for Kanny and I can't wait.

Haha yea. I saw that. It will be my off-day viewing. Just wish there were some position players to get excited about. Hope Burrowes shows up sooner rather than later.

That Chappy bomb is so satisfying to watch.

The lack of development with arms in this system is  brutal over the last 10 years. By not developing any arms for our bullpen is a reason why we allocate so much money into our MLB bullpen, which is sad! It's so frustrating to see how the Dodgers, Rays, Guardians, Astros, and list goes on with teams that have new prospects pop up over the offseason. It's incredible how many times I'm reading where the Dodgers and Rays draft players that were throwing in the low 90's and throwing 2 pitches and the next season throwing mid to upper 90's with 3/4 different pitches with the potential to be multiple plus pitches. The only pitcher in the past decade the Sox have really developed and starting to maximize his potential is Christian Mena. Sox need to be researching and hiring from these successful organizations. 

Edited April 12, 20232 yr by PolishPrince34

1 hour ago, PolishPrince34 said:

The lack of development with arms in this system is  brutal over the last 10 years. By not developing any arms for our bullpen is a reason why we allocate so much money into our MLB bullpen, which is sad! It's so frustrating to see how the Dodgers, Rays, Guardians, Astros, and list goes on with teams that have new prospects pop up over the offseason. It's incredible how many times I'm reading where the Dodgers and Rays draft players that were throwing in the low 90's and throwing 2 pitches and the next season throwing mid to upper 90's with 3/4 different pitches with the potential to be multiple plus pitches. The only pitcher in the past decade the Sox have really developed and starting to maximize his potential is Christian Mena. Sox need to be researching and hiring from these successful organizations. 

Off the top of my head: Rodon, Cease, Giolito's All-Star year + 2020, new ReyLo, Jimmy Lambert, Davis Martin.

A decade is a LONG time.

Pitching is weird.  In the past, it was the one thing the Sox seemed to develop.  I think we got behind with the overall shift to analytics/video based vs "old time" eyes.  On the other hand, Coop did fix some.  Seems the verdict is out on Katz and the new approach.  Is it as simple as we used to draft college arms which required less development and during rebuild we kind of shifted to position players and some high school arms (longer development and higher injury/bust rate)?

2 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

Pitching is weird.  In the past, it was the one thing the Sox seemed to develop.  I think we got behind with the overall shift to analytics/video based vs "old time" eyes.  On the other hand, Coop did fix some.  Seems the verdict is out on Katz and the new approach.  Is it as simple as we used to draft college arms which required less development and during rebuild we kind of shifted to position players and some high school arms (longer development and higher injury/bust rate)?

It'll be interesting to see how the pandemic has also affected the development of some arms in the system.

Cease, Giolito, and ReyLo were traded from other organizations and spent multiple years in their organizations. Definitely Katz has helped Cease get to that next level and maximize his potential. With Lopez I was really disappointed it took the Sox so long to realize he was a bullpen arm. Many of big time scouting analysts: Law, McDaniel, Eric. L thought he belonged in the bullpen. It took Sox 6 years to figure out. Jimmy Lambert/28 years old and Davis Martin/26 years old Triple A really?  Will give you Lambert development. Nice 6th round pick, but he's one of the last relievers rostered on a playoff team at best and with his health track record don't see him having a very long MLB career. Martin looks like #5, #6 starter or long reliever in the bullpen, which is becoming more valuable these days-Rays. Rodon was on the ballclub for 6 years not sure we fully maximized his potential until the very last year. Yes, he had injuries that stunted his growth. Overall I was more displeased with the 6 years of  Rodon on the Sox squad coming from the #3 overall pick. Again i think we have done a lousy job with our pitching development with players we originally drafted and signed internationally. 

Edited April 12, 20232 yr by PolishPrince34

17 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said:

Cease, Giolito, and ReyLo were traded from other organizations and spent multiple years in their organizations. Definitely Katz has helped Cease get to that next level and maximize his potential. With Lopez I was really disappointed it took the Sox so long to realize he was a bullpen arm. Many of big time scouting analysts: Law, McDaniel, Eric. L thought he belonged in the bullpen. It took Sox 6 years to figure out. Jimmy Lambert/28 years old and Davis Martin/26 years old really?  Rodon was on the ballclub for 6 years not sure we fully maximized his potential until the very last year. Yes, he had injuries that stunted his growth. Overall I was more displeased with the 6 years of  Rodon on the Sox squad coming from the #3 overall pick. Again i think we have done a lousy job with our pitching development with players we originally drafted and signed internationally. 

Here we go:

- Cease went from "maybe he'll be a BP pitcher?" to Cy Young contender here.

- ReyLo had success in his first year as a starter with the Sox - why would they have given up right away on that?

- Giolito's star was fading fast and then he was an All-Star and Cy Young vote getter.

- You said they developed no one. So yes, Jimmy Lambert, Davis Martin and Rodon count as much as Cristian Mena. And I say this as someone that loves what Mena's doing and purposefully went to go watch him in person last year.

I was typing this during my break in my car, so I definitely didn't get very detailed with some of my specifics. Sox have done a lousy job with developing their original draft picks and international signings. Past decade : Rodon-disappointment until the very last year and signed him to 1 year prove it deal, Martin-26 years- 6 years developing in the minors, Lambert- 6 years developing in the minors before being rostered and not shuffled down. Again 10 year period absolutely brutal. 

7 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said:

I was typing this during my break in my car, so I definitely didn't get very detailed with some of my specifics. Sox have done a lousy job with developing their original draft picks and international signings. Past decade : Rodon-disappointment until the very last year and signed him to 1 year prove it deal, Martin-26 years- 6 years developing in the minors, Lambert- 6 years developing in the minors before being rostered and not shuffled down. Again 10 year period absolutely brutal. 

Oh most def. Any arm that got mildly interesting would flop and/or get snake bitten (RIP Ian Hamilton).

I'm willing to give Katz a little bit longer since the pandemic had to slow down development for recent signings/draftees + hoping Shirley's philosophy change bears fruit. The current crop of arms is more exciting than probably the entire post-World Series to pre-Rebuild era.

On 4/12/2023 at 8:14 AM, Quin said:

Off the top of my head: Rodon, Cease, Giolito's All-Star year + 2020, new ReyLo, Jimmy Lambert, Davis Martin.

A decade is a LONG time.

I don't count Lambert or Martin as neither are veyr good. So Rodon is the only guy we drafted and developed and he was a super high draft pick. That is downright pathetic.  I am ignoring fact that Bassit and the other guy we dealt to the A's ended up being decent, so they count in the 10 year window....but man thats a lot of nothing, not even finding some decent relievers.  

The Sox biggest problem isn't what they have done in free agency, don't get me wrong, it hasn't been great...but it is in how poor they have been in either the drafting and/or player development front (reality is both).  Just putrid.  

1 hour ago, Chisoxfn said:

I don't count Lambert or Martin as neither are veyr good. So Rodon is the only guy we drafted and developed and he was a super high draft pick. That is downright pathetic.  I am ignoring fact that Bassit and the other guy we dealt to the A's ended up being decent, so they count in the 10 year window....but man thats a lot of nothing, not even finding some decent relievers.  

The Sox biggest problem isn't what they have done in free agency, don't get me wrong, it hasn't been great...but it is in how poor they have been in either the drafting and/or player development front (reality is both).  Just putrid.  

Oh look no further than @bmags for a robust breakdown of Hostetler's awful development.

But I still stand by my earlier post. There's definitely more than just Cristian Mena. It's just the difference between a shallow puddle and a kiddie pool.

Also, Jimmy Lambert did have a good year last year?

I sorta feel like it’s unfair to not give credit for cease, kopech who were both raw in A.

Which I mainly mention because I feel like the problem is just not getting enough talent into the org. I think paddy is a good evaluator but literally doesn’t bring in big enough classes.
 

I think Shirley is interesting but made a big mistake with his 2020 / Draft strategies that went too targeted with bonuses at a time when our minors essentially were barren. You had scouting director and intl director both go after small classes with higher certainty quality guys at the same time. 
 

Ok if one does it,  but both at same time made this an inch by inch rebuild. 
 

You’d assume Hahn would be like creating an overarching vision for these guys to understand how to execute, but it seems like they are managed as “you are talented and safe; just go find some guys you like!!!”

This org desperately needs to be treated as a bottom market for it to be competitive, because Hahn is way too lazy to exploit all talent avenues to their fullest.

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

I sorta feel like it’s unfair to not give credit for cease, kopech who were both raw in A.

Which I mainly mention because I feel like the problem is just not getting enough talent into the org. I think paddy is a good evaluator but literally doesn’t bring in big enough classes.
 

I think Shirley is interesting but made a big mistake with his 2020 / Draft strategies that went too targeted with bonuses at a time when our minors essentially were barren. You had scouting director and intl director both go after small classes with higher certainty quality guys at the same time. 
 

Ok if one does it,  but both at same time made this an inch by inch rebuild. 
 

You’d assume Hahn would be like creating an overarching vision for these guys to understand how to execute, but it seems like they are managed as “you are talented and safe; just go find some guys you like!!!”

This org desperately needs to be treated as a bottom market for it to be competitive, because Hahn is way too lazy to exploit all talent avenues to their fullest.

FWIW, only reason I didn't count Kopech is because he's beginning to falter. But that could also be attributed to several injuries + the COVID layoff taking their toll.

Agree on Paddy - and I think we're beginning to see greater dividends with his ability to scout hitters. Fingers crossed that his pitching signees begin to come through.