RIP Coach Robert Montgomery Knight

[South Side Hit Men]

Coach Robert Montgomery Knight has been ill the past few years, Alzheimer's and other acute illness which kept him hospitalized the final six months of his life. 

Coach Knight has supported hundreds of student athletes on and off the court. I appreciate Purdue University's moment of silence this evening. I hope the entire Knight Family can find peace and solace, and reflect on the great times they shared with RMK throughout their lives. 

RMK's All Time Favorite IU Basketball Player,

1:42 begins "It wasn't easy for Patrick to come to Indiana. This has not been an easy situation for him. Patrick could have gone to a lot of smaller schools, and played basketball and probably played it a lot more, and in a lot more of a front position than he has here. Grew up watching Indiana Basketball, he has chased balls on this floor for everybody from Steve Green to Michael Jordan. And I was extremely happy when he decided to come here and play; and playing as a role player, knowing that you're going to play a couple minutes here and a couple minutes there, Requires a special kind of kid; and I think Patrick has been that during the time that he has been here. I have a great admiration for him for choosing to come to Indiana knowing that it was not going to be an easy four years for him. And I look back over the players that we've had, and I love Alan Henderson. He's one of my favorite players. Channey, Woodson, there are a ton of them. But I leave you with this, and then I turn it over first to Patrick and then to Alan. I do leave you with this thought. Patrick Knight is my all time favorite Indiana Player.

 

[caulfield12]

There are clearly two Bobby Knights, and you're completely overlooking the monstrous version...

If he would have retired after his third championship, his legacy would have been completely different than where it sits today.

[Kyyle23]

Nah I think I will choose to remember him being totally unwilling to admit he was an abusive person

[Quin]

Bob Knight was a great coach and trash person that probably influenced tons of jagoff high school coaches across the country to abuse athletes trying to have fun in a laundry list of sports because they thought it was the best way to get results.

In conclusion: Good for him that he got results. The fact that you of all people SSHM - with your laundry list rants about TLR's persona during his two year stint - aren't recognizing that Bob Knight was a douchebag, just shows that plenty of people are willing to overlook abuse if it gets a W.

[3GamesToLove]

lol "Coach Robert Montgomery Knight"

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Bob Knight was a great coach and trash person that probably influenced tons of jagoff high school coaches across the country to abuse athletes trying to have fun in a laundry list of sports because they thought it was the best way to get results.

In conclusion: Good for him that he got results. The fact that you of all people SSHM - with your laundry list rants about TLR's persona during his two year stint - aren't recognizing that Bob Knight was a douchebag, just shows that plenty of people are willing to overlook abuse if it gets a W.

From the perspective of a student there when he was fired...

I think he also got way worse over time and as the accolades piled up. I can't look at that picture of him and his team from 76  or Isiah Thomas saying "prayers for our coach" yesterday, or the way Mike Woodson has treated him the last few years, and believe that he was also kicking these guys in the shins and slapping them on a regular basis. He might have been tough, but to do what he did there in the 70s, I struggle to see him being that level of abusive. 

I think especially after that undefeated season, the "legend of Bob Knight" started to grow, that fed his ego, and maybe he had fewer people willing to call him out if he pushed up against a line and eventually stepped over it. I think you can see this with the stores and books published about the 1980s, there's a level of "pushing the line" that isn't quite physically violent but isn't ok in those stories. Then there were some down seasons in the mid-80s and that took him to another level, that was when the chair incident happened. That's when a lot of the first incidents between him and the press, between him and his family apparently happened.

What I remember from the 1990s and early 2000s teams is that they had way more talent and were way better put together than their final results would show. They could hang with anyone, but they'd often lose - I think they were legitimately playing scared all the time. I was at one game against Ohio State, the refs were calling the game tough, Indiana was the better team, but they lost because they weren't being aggressive at all, they were hanging back and expecting fouls. They knew if they screwed up that they'd get in real trouble, so they didn't focus on doing their best, they focused on not trying to make their coach angry. That fits with the high number of transfers they were getting in the late 90s from players who came there and wanted to get away from him. They stopped winning, and that was because of him too.

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

From the perspective of a student there when he was fired...

I think he also got way worse over time and as the accolades piled up. I can't look at that picture of him and his team from 76  or Isiah Thomas saying "prayers for our coach" yesterday, or the way Mike Woodson has treated him the last few years, and believe that he was also kicking these guys in the shins and slapping them on a regular basis. He might have been tough, but to do what he did there in the 70s, I struggle to see him being that level of abusive. 

I think especially after that undefeated season, the "legend of Bob Knight" started to grow, that fed his ego, and maybe he had fewer people willing to call him out if he pushed up against a line and eventually stepped over it. I think you can see this with the stores and books published about the 1980s, there's a level of "pushing the line" that isn't quite physically violent but isn't ok in those stories. Then there were some down seasons in the mid-80s and that took him to another level, that was when the chair incident happened. That's when a lot of the first incidents between him and the press, between him and his family apparently happened.

What I remember from the 1990s and early 2000s teams is that they had way more talent and were way better put together than their final results would show. They could hang with anyone, but they'd often lose - I think they were legitimately playing scared all the time. I was at one game against Ohio State, the refs were calling the game tough, Indiana was the better team, but they lost because they weren't being aggressive at all, they were hanging back and expecting fouls. They knew if they screwed up that they'd get in real trouble, so they didn't focus on doing their best, they focused on not trying to make their coach angry. That fits with the high number of transfers they were getting in the late 90s from players who came there and wanted to get away from him. They stopped winning, and that was because of him too.

I think a lot of what you said about him getting worse over time rings very true, and I also think once the media got whiff of the abuse tactics, they ceased working for him within his practices because everyone knew it was not right

[South Side Hit Men]

3 hours ago, Quin said:

Bob Knight was a great coach and trash person that probably influenced tons of jagoff high school coaches across the country to abuse athletes trying to have fun in a laundry list of sports because they thought it was the best way to get results.

In conclusion: Good for him that he got results. The fact that you of all people SSHM - with your laundry list rants about TLR's persona during his two year stint - aren't recognizing that Bob Knight was a douchebag, just shows that plenty of people are willing to overlook abuse if it gets a W.

I don't recall Coach RMK having the attributes I criticized TLR, including racist statements, multiple drunk driving incidents, status and any WL success primarily based on cronyism and steroids, hanging on until he was senile and near death, not knowing WTF was going on in the game while coaching (10 years ago with Saint Louis or his entire second tenure here), etc..

Everyone has regretful actions in life, including every poster here, but setting aside all athletic accomplishments, his emphasis on academics and support of players over the years has built the foundation of near universal former player support over the years. I don't agree or condone what happened with Reed, and do support the updated rules allowing players to transfer without adverse consequences and to make money from endorsements and other methods as players.

I don't agree with charging RMK with the actions of others, such as High School coaches you list, because everyone is accountable for their own actions, and high school or younger athletes are children, not young adults. Finally, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when a person dies, I feel it is not a time to focus on negatives. That goes for when Jerry Reinsdorf dies, or Selig, or Manfred, or anyone else I don't agree with how they conducted themselves over time. I will be pleased the White Sox may have the possibility of having a new non Reinsdorf ownership group (until Bob Nightengale kills all hope with a tweet within 14 hours), but will not celebrate the death of the human being who has family and friends that have mutual love, caring and bonding over the years/decades.

[greg775]

4 hours ago, Quin said:

Bob Knight was a great coach and trash person that probably influenced tons of jagoff high school coaches across the country to abuse athletes trying to have fun in a laundry list of sports because they thought it was the best way to get results.

In conclusion: Good for him that he got results. The fact that you of all people SSHM - with your laundry list rants about TLR's persona during his two year stint - aren't recognizing that Bob Knight was a douchebag, just shows that plenty of people are willing to overlook abuse if it gets a W.

This is a pretty good post, at the very least compelling and thought provoking.

He certainly treated many people poorly, very poorly. Seems in his inner circle and to charities, etc., he was a gem of a human. Trash person? Open to discussion. I would tend to agree with your second paragraph more than disagree with it. Bully? For sure. Flat out bad person? Maybe. Somebody who did a lot of good things. Yes. Somebody who did a lot of bad things? Yes.

Complex. But your post is certainly worthy of discussion. I wouldn't disagree with your basic point/premise. 

[caulfield12]

6 hours ago, 3GamesToLove said:

lol "Coach Robert Montgomery Knight"

Vitale-ism.

Hero worship.

Coach K included.

Indiana players from the 70s and 80s swear by him. Late 80s and onward...not so much from the more modern generation of ballplayers starting with the likes of Calbert Cheaney and Jay Edwards.

He was just other version of Normal Dale from Hoosiers.

 

Same issues with the likes of Paterno, Jim Jordan, MSU, Northwestern, Tressel/Meyer, now Harbaugh.

Can't leave out large swathes of Iowa coaches like Chris Doyle and the Ferentzes.

Edited November 2, 2023 by caulfield12

[Quin]

8 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I don't recall Coach RMK having the attributes I criticized TLR, including racist statements, multiple drunk driving incidents, status and any WL success primarily based on cronyism and steroids, hanging on until he was senile and near death, not knowing WTF was going on in the game while coaching (10 years ago with Saint Louis or his entire second tenure here), etc..

Everyone has regretful actions in life, including every poster here, but setting aside all athletic accomplishments, his emphasis on academics and support of players over the years has built the foundation of near universal former player support over the years. I don't agree or condone what happened with Reed, and do support the updated rules allowing players to transfer without adverse consequences and to make money from endorsements and other methods as players.

I don't agree with charging RMK with the actions of others, such as High School coaches you list, because everyone is accountable for their own actions, and high school or younger athletes are children, not young adults. Finally, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when a person dies, I feel it is not a time to focus on negatives. That goes for when Jerry Reinsdorf dies, or Selig, or Manfred, or anyone else I don't agree with how they conducted themselves over time. I will be pleased the White Sox may have the possibility of having a new non Reinsdorf ownership group (until Bob Nightengale kills all hope with a tweet within 14 hours), but will not celebrate the death of the human being who has family and friends that have mutual love, caring and bonding over the years/decades.

lmao

The bullwhip thing is right up your alley.

Or when he told an NBC News reporter that how he handles stress: "“I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”

And my regretful actions in life don't involve assaulting people. Or relishing in berating them.

Tony La Russa's got a charity. He's never assaulted people as far as we're aware.

You think Bob fucking Knight would have been a fan of the "let the kids play" era of MLB? Tony certainly didn't, but at least he seemed to chill on it after Yermin's bomb.

I have plenty of issues with TLR, but he's a beacon of a human being since his regretful action is one of wanton, reckless and dangerous stupidity and not sober, constant, intentional harm to people.

 

[SoxAce]

SSHM of all people white knighting (no pun intended) over Bobby Knight is... certainly something I did not see coming.

[South Side Hit Men]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

lmao

The bullwhip thing is right up your alley.

Or when he told an NBC News reporter that how he handles stress: "“I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.”

And my regretful actions in life don't involve assaulting people. Or relishing in berating them.

Tony La Russa's got a charity. He's never assaulted people as far as we're aware.

You think Bob fucking Knight would have been a fan of the "let the kids play" era of MLB? Tony certainly didn't, but at least he seemed to chill on it after Yermin's bomb.

I have plenty of issues with TLR, but he's a beacon of a human being since his regretful action is one of wanton, reckless and dangerous stupidity and not sober, constant, intentional harm to people.

 

Well, I don't get worked up over his battles with the mostly worthless or worse media. And here is the entire quote, not a correction made down to road by a PR lacky or talking points given to La Russa at his press conference, just days before his latest publicly known DUI.

Quote

'I think that if rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it.' That's just an old term that you're going to use. The plane's down, so you have no control over it. I'm not talking about that, about the act of rape. Don't misinterpret me there. But what I'm talking about is, something happens to you, so you have to handle it - now.''

Perhaps you're not old enough to know who Connie Chung is beyond possibly knowing she is married to Maury Povich, and or do not remember the full interview. The clumsy language was critiqued, but in no way did RMK condone rape as you're limited quote out of context suggests.

Tony's beloved charity you praise was sued, and his wife and daughter disavowed any affiliation with it after being sued for both racist and age discriminatory practices by their CEO hired and defended by Tony, a court case which I believe is still ongoing in or around Oakland.

Must not have heard of the thousands of charities Robert Montgomery Knight was involved in over the years. Now you're concocting imaginary stances of RMK's thoughts of professional athlete celebrations? LOL

Funny, you also seem to forget numerous acts of in the Jerry Reinsdorf & Tony La Russa era, starting with Tony La Russa, yes that fucking Tony La Russa, bringing a coaching posse, because he wasn't man enough to do it alone, to physically threaten a 50 something year old JImmy Piersall for calling out his inept management and team. Tony has physically threatened announcers as recently as his previous stint before his latest publicly known DUI when he threatened the Pittsburgh Pirates broadcast team. Also haven't heard you say squat about the Reinsdorf's C Suite violent rampages, including John Paxson literally choking Vinny Del Negro and Kenny Williams' reported attack on Greg Walker which even Ozzie was too scared to discuss or help defend his staff.

We get it, you and the usual suspects hate Robert Montgomery Knight. Most of our exchanges, whether we agree or disagree over my time here, have been cordial and fact based. If you have anything else left to piss on RMK's grave while it is still above ground or after it is lowered, try to aim using actual statements and actions in your attempt to feel good berating the dead while the family and greater community mourns. Be a better person.

1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

SSHM of all people white knighting (no pun intended) over Bobby Knight is... certainly something I did not see coming.

In the first post, I had two videos, commented on his strong support among his players over the decades and quoted his remarks on Patrick Knight's Senior Night, a tradition RMK started and made sure was telecast each season following the final home game across the Indiana University Television Network.

The second post address Quin's non factual statement that my criticisms of TLR were consistent with appropriate criticisms of Coach Knight, and stated that when a person dies, it is best to either honour the person or remain silent, regardless of whether you may agree with a person over the years or not. And now we are at post three, where again, Quin's attacks are either inaccurate and or omitting key facts / omitting context of entire statements, so sadly I must spend my time correcting the record versus mourning with the Indiana University faithful and the World at large.

Quin and at most times Balta will at least engage in good faith conversations or debates, so I will respond where appropriate. At times I will use hyperbole to make a point, but when it comes to Robert Montgomery Knight, Anthony La Russa Junior, and Jerry Michael Reinsdorf, I can assure you I am being completely earnest.

Steve Alford breaks down remembering Coach Knight

 

One of three legitimate / non tainted perfect NCAA Men's Basketball D1 Championship Seasons in NCAA history (joining North Carolina and San Francisco)

 

OG One Shining Moment - 1987

 

 

[Kyyle23]

Quin, you are on post 3.  Don’t you dare get to post four

[Milkman delivers]

I agree that it’s in poor taste to s%*# on someone who just died, unless they were absolute monsters. But it’s a fashionable thing to do now. People need to be edgy.

I don’t understand using full names so much though 😆

Edited November 3, 2023 by Milkman delivers

[Kyyle23]

19 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

I agree that it’s in poor taste to s%*# on someone who just died, unless they were absolute monsters. But it’s a fashionable thing to do now. People need to be edgy.

I don’t understand using full names so much though 😆

Nobody is being edgy.  Knight has plenty of crap in his past that make him a very conflicted figure in public.  

[Milkman delivers]

3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

Nobody is being edgy.  Knight has plenty of crap in his past that make him a very conflicted figure in public.  

I’d say s%*#-talking a person who just died is, in itself, an attempt at being edgy.

Edit: Especially in a thread created to eulogize the person.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Milkman delivers

[Kyyle23]

Just now, Milkman delivers said:

I’d say s%*#-talking a person who just died is, in itself, an attempt at being edgy.

Is it s%*# talking if you say what happened 

[Milkman delivers]

1 minute ago, Kyyle23 said:

Is it s%*# talking if you say what happened 

Yes, when someone created a thread to remember the person fondly.

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

Yes, when someone created a thread to remember the person fondly.

Well, I guess when you post something about a public figure with a lot of baggage you should expect some alternate opinions

[SoxAce]

5 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

Yes, when someone created a thread to remember the person fondly.

If this was Rocky Wirtz who died, SSHM would be the first one ridiculing him... because he's done it before. And I honestly didn't have a problem with it at all either (same with the Bobby Hull stuff).

You reap what you sow. Bobby Knight should be no different. He did alot of good for the game but you can't ignore his past either. 

[South Side Hit Men]

On 11/3/2023 at 8:11 PM, SoxAce said:

If this was Rocky Wirtz who died, SSHM would be the first one ridiculing him... because he's done it before. And I honestly didn't have a problem with it at all either (same with the Bobby Hull stuff).

You reap what you sow. Bobby Knight should be no different. He did alot of good for the game but you can't ignore his past either. 

Hate to be the bearer of bad news for you, but Rocky Wirtz died a few months ago.

My condolences to you for your loss.

[Dick Allen]

Any word if the family is going to adhere to his wishes?

 

When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass!

Bobby Knight

[caulfield12]

22 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Any word if the family is going to adhere to his wishes?

 

When my time on earth is gone, and my activities here are passed, I want they bury me upside down, and my critics can kiss my ass!

Bobby Knight

past?

or passed on to kids?

[Dick Allen]

12 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

past?

or passed on to kids?

I'm sure it's past.