https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/baseball-americas-2025-scout-survey-evaluators-fear-games-direction-amid-doom-and-gloom-offseason/

We'very been hearing for months now about how the White Sox have cut into veteran scouts about as deeply as any organization out there...scary, because what exactly is replacing it?

Just JR Getz Shirley Bannister Barfield and TLR in the old KW "War Room" with the big whiteboard?

 

"Not to knock the romanticized history of scouting, but traditional scouting is just guessing. It is imperfect and capable of being heuristically silly. But that humanity is what makes the industry compelling. This is an entertainment industry and storytelling is a part of that entertainment. I doubt Vin Scully would have been as beloved as he was if the story he told about a player coming into an org was as bland as ‘The team ran his Trackman feed through its model and the model flagged his spin rates and exit velos.’ We’re losing that storytelling ability. The broader industry wants games to be done with as fast as possible. To identify players with a single click of a refresh button on its internal dashboard. And to employ as few people as possible whether that is to help hoard resources or remove the risk of dissenting opinion. MLB: The Show has a simulation feature, and it would be nice if that were enough to satiate those who are too impatient to endure and enjoy the ride.”

Edited January 7, 20251 yr by caulfield12

Ah yes the old, it was better back in my day people.  Literally the old trope of humanity.

• “Scouts’ voices are being marginalized in favor of analysts and the results are no better.”

I don’t think this is the dig that the person who said it thinks it is.  

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/baseball-americas-2025-scout-survey-evaluators-fear-games-direction-amid-doom-and-gloom-offseason/

We'very been hearing for months now about how the White Sox have cut into veteran scouts about as deeply as any organization out there...scary, because what exactly is replacing it?

Just JR Getz Shirley Bannister Barfield and TLR in the old KW "War Room" with the big whiteboard?

 

"Not to knock the romanticized history of scouting, but traditional scouting is just guessing. It is imperfect and capable of being heuristically silly. But that humanity is what makes the industry compelling. This is an entertainment industry and storytelling is a part of that entertainment. I doubt Vin Scully would have been as beloved as he was if the story he told about a player coming into an org was as bland as ‘The team ran his Trackman feed through its model and the model flagged his spin rates and exit velos.’ We’re losing that storytelling ability. The broader industry wants games to be done with as fast as possible. To identify players with a single click of a refresh button on its internal dashboard. And to employ as few people as possible whether that is to help hoard resources or remove the risk of dissenting opinion. MLB: The Show has a simulation feature, and it would be nice if that were enough to satiate those who are too impatient to endure and enjoy the ride.”

Thanks for posting this. I'll probably get to reading it tonight. 

Which Organizations Are The Worst At Identifying Talent?

24 scouts responded to this question. Below are the results sorted by descending order of percentage, with vote totals included in parentheses.

• White Sox — 50% (12)
• Athletics — 46% (11)
• Angels/Marlins — 38% (9)
• Rockies — 33% (8)
• Blue Jays — 21% (5)
• Guardians — 17% (4)
• Cubs/Nationals/Reds/Red Sox — 13% (3)
• Astros/Braves/Brewers/Giants/Mets — 8% (2)
• Cardinals/Mariners/Orioles/Pirates/Rays/Royals/Twins/Yankees— 4% (1)
• Diamondbacks/Dodger/ Padres/Phillies/Rangers/Tigers — 0% (0)

A number of clubs got more detailed feedback in this category: the Guardians with high school players; the Astros, Cubs and Braves as teams trending down at talent identification; one scout who viewed the Nationals and White Sox as being “way behind.”

One scout didn’t mention a specific team but said more generally: “Any org that relies only on data or still fully on a scout’s opinion. There is room for a blend and discussion on players.”

I hope someone sends that to Jeremy Haber.  LOL

40 minutes ago, Tony said:

Which Organizations Are The Worst At Identifying Talent?

One scout didn’t mention a specific team but said more generally: “Any org that relies only on data or still fully on a scout’s opinion. There is room for a blend and discussion on players.”

SHOTS FIRED

It's not mutually exclusive, that's what limited minds want to think I guess. Like no org is using only metrics or only in person scouting. It's always a blend. This article feels quite dated, like something that would have come out 20 years ago during the start of the Moneyball consciousness. We are long past this point in the evolution of evaluating players.

Edited January 7, 20251 yr by chitownsportsfan

6 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It's not mutually exclusive, that's what limited minds want to think I guess. Like no org is using only metrics or only in person scouting. It's always a blend. This article feels quite dated, like something that would have come out 20 years ago during the start of the Moneyball consciousness. We are long past this point in the evolution of evaluating players.

The problem is our scouting experience/networks were once considered the strength of the organization...but we're now something like Bottom 3-5 in baseball in terms of sheer numbers of scouts remaining, right?  With almost all of the veteran scouts shown the door...Vegan wrote about this pretty extensively.

So what are our strengths as an organization at this point?

Seems like talent recommendations are coming mostly most hitting and pitching coaches, Barfield, etc.

59 minutes ago, Tony said:

Which Organizations Are The Worst At Identifying Talent?

24 scouts responded to this question. Below are the results sorted by descending order of percentage, with vote totals included in parentheses.

• White Sox — 50% (12)
• Athletics — 46% (11)
• Angels/Marlins — 38% (9)
• Rockies — 33% (8)
• Blue Jays — 21% (5)
• Guardians — 17% (4)
• Cubs/Nationals/Reds/Red Sox — 13% (3)
• Astros/Braves/Brewers/Giants/Mets — 8% (2)
• Cardinals/Mariners/Orioles/Pirates/Rays/Royals/Twins/Yankees— 4% (1)
• Diamondbacks/Dodger/ Padres/Phillies/Rangers/Tigers — 0% (0)

A number of clubs got more detailed feedback in this category: the Guardians with high school players; the Astros, Cubs and Braves as teams trending down at talent identification; one scout who viewed the Nationals and White Sox as being “way behind.”

One scout didn’t mention a specific team but said more generally: “Any org that relies only on data or still fully on a scout’s opinion. There is room for a blend and discussion on players.”

How in God's name would the Guardians be anywhere near the top (bottom) when they are one of the very best with young pitching as well as in Latin America?

Former scouts no longer with the team voting out of jealousy...?

Edited January 7, 20251 yr by caulfield12

1 hour ago, Tony said:

Which Organizations Are The Worst At Identifying Talent?

24 scouts responded to this question. Below are the results sorted by descending order of percentage, with vote totals included in parentheses.

• White Sox — 50% (12)
• Athletics — 46% (11)
• Angels/Marlins — 38% (9)
• Rockies — 33% (8)
• Blue Jays — 21% (5)
• Guardians — 17% (4)
• Cubs/Nationals/Reds/Red Sox — 13% (3)
• Astros/Braves/Brewers/Giants/Mets — 8% (2)
• Cardinals/Mariners/Orioles/Pirates/Rays/Royals/Twins/Yankees— 4% (1)
• Diamondbacks/Dodger/ Padres/Phillies/Rangers/Tigers — 0% (0)

A number of clubs got more detailed feedback in this category: the Guardians with high school players; the Astros, Cubs and Braves as teams trending down at talent identification; one scout who viewed the Nationals and White Sox as being “way behind.”

One scout didn’t mention a specific team but said more generally: “Any org that relies only on data or still fully on a scout’s opinion. There is room for a blend and discussion on players.”

The Sox being the worst shouldn't be a surprise. The proof is on the field. 

 

 

we dont sign the players we need, we sign the players we can. and there ends up being a reason for that.. no one is fighting us for them. the draft and trades could similarly be interpreted that way as well

On 1/7/2025 at 1:21 PM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I hope someone sends that to Jeremy Haber.  LOL

why dont you send it yourself? You have his number after all, he bought a Jeep!

23 hours ago, Fielder Jones said:

we dont sign the players we need, we sign the players we can. and there ends up being a reason for that.. no one is fighting us for them. the draft and trades could similarly be interpreted that way as well

I'm not following. Are you saying that the people we draft nobody else wants?

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

I'm not following. Are you saying that the people we draft nobody else wants?

It's just a dynamic that seems to follow all portions of our player acquisition. Jacob Gonzalez and Keenyn Walker rumor has it were results of the higher up contramanding the department that is supposed to make these decisions. These were guys the MLB community had lower, but we took them and had no one fighting us for them at all.

On 1/7/2025 at 9:05 AM, southsider2k5 said:

Ah yes the old, it was better back in my day people.  Literally the old trope of humanity.

I think analytics and efficiency maximization have hurt baseball and basketball and it's not because of any age old tropes. It's because they've fundamentally changed how the game is played and evaluated in ways that have harmed uniqueness and diversities of skill sets. 

Sometimes the most efficient way is more boring and less entertaining and this is entertainment after all.

18 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think analytics and efficiency maximization have hurt baseball and basketball and it's not because of any age old tropes. It's because they've fundamentally changed how the game is played and evaluated in ways that have harmed uniqueness and diversities of skill sets. 

Sometimes the most efficient way is more boring and less entertaining and this is entertainment after all.

I agree. More efficient, will beat the old way over time, but everyone attempts to play the same way. I used to love the NBA. I like watching Curry hoist up 3s, but it's all everyone does anymore. Baseball, same, although they did bring steals back. Hopefully, they can find more than one or two ways to efficiently win. All players are pretty much evaluated the same as well. 

46 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think analytics and efficiency maximization have hurt baseball and basketball and it's not because of any age old tropes. It's because they've fundamentally changed how the game is played and evaluated in ways that have harmed uniqueness and diversities of skill sets. 

Sometimes the most efficient way is more boring and less entertaining and this is entertainment after all.

Is the goal to entertain or to win?

48 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Is the goal to entertain or to win?

Well, according to KW and JR, to finish second or third and put lots of homers on the board/exploding fireworks.

They cut the fireworks costs pretty considerably the last two years due to their inept offenses.