1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

No, actually Getz took over a team who won 20+ more games. 

It's hilarious to watch people pretend there's no difference between a 40 win team and a 60 win team and somehow that 20 additional losses were the creation of Rick hahn.Hahn.

No one would ever excuse someone taking over a 100 win team and turning them into an 80 win team so no idea why 60 to 40 should be any different. Actually even worse imo.

The funniest part is when you guys pretend that Getz was left with a 60+ win team. Coming out of the 2023 season, they had no pitching rotation. They had no bullpen. I'm not sure how you hear that anybody's "blaming" KW and Hahn for that. They were fired in August. 

I guess it's self-validating to pretend that you would have gone out there and forced the best players in the league to take less money to play for your team. LOL. Getz took over a husk of a 60 win team. 

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The funniest part is when you guys pretend that Getz was left with a 60+ win team. Coming out of the 2023 season, they had no pitching rotation. They had no bullpen. I'm not sure how you hear that anybody's "blaming" KW and Hahn for that. They were fired in August. 

I guess it's self-validating to pretend that you would have gone out there and forced the best players in the league to take less money to play for your team. LOL. Getz took over a husk of a 60 win team. 

Yeah, it’s a shame that Getz didn’t help develop more players in his previous role so the cupboard wouldn’t be as barren as it was when he was gifted the role of GM by Jerry.

4 hours ago, oldsox said:

Lets see how this looks in 9 months.  We gave up a guy who could very well be the best pitcher in the league.

Which is completely worthless to the Sox.  Dude was on the team last year, and they lost the most games in the baseball history.  Sox would win more games with Crochet in 2025, but they'd still be a terrible 110+ loss team.  Sitting on that asset while it depreciates (and has significant risk of injury) is outrageously stupid. 

I don't care if Crochet wins the CY in 2025; in fact, I hope he does.  It doesn't change anything. 

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by ChiSox59

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yeah, it’s a shame that Getz didn’t help develop more players in his previous role so the cupboard wouldn’t be as barren as it was when he was gifted the role of GM by Jerry.

2 pitchers who should be in the 2025 rotation were in the system, developed, but injured at the beginning of 2024. Jonathan Cannon did step into the rotation and looked solid. Yeah, I guess it's bad Getz couldn't take a bunch of schlubs and turn them into a 100 win team overnight. 

13 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

2 pitchers who should be in the 2025 rotation were in the system, developed, but injured at the beginning of 2024. Jonathan Cannon did step into the rotation and looked solid. Yeah, I guess it's bad Getz couldn't take a bunch of schlubs and turn them into a 100 win team overnight. 

Why did the former Director of Player Personnel and Assistant GM have such a collection of schlubs to begin with?

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

11 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Why did the Director of Player Personnel and Assistant GM have such a collection of schlubs to begin with?

His hands were completely tied don't you know. And then when given control he engineered the worst team in modern history. But that wasn't his fault either.

Ugh.

9 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

His hands were completely tied don't you know. And then when given control he engineered the worst team in modern history. But that wasn't his fault either.

Ugh.

Meanwhile, the Giants are out there DFA’ing better players than the White Sox have on their roster…

“Giants designated C/OF Blake Sabol for assignment.

The move is necessary after the Giants signed Justin Verlander and needed room on the 40-man roster. Sabol, 27, should see interest on the waiver wire as a player who can play in the outfield as well as catch, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if he was claimed or if the Giants were able to work out a trade for the backup backstop.”

30 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Why did the former Director of Player Personnel and Assistant GM have such a collection of schlubs to begin with?

Why don't you ask somebody who drafts players and signs them. Is that the head of development? 

29 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The funniest part is when you guys pretend that Getz was left with a 60+ win team. Coming out of the 2023 season, they had no pitching rotation. They had no bullpen. I'm not sure how you hear that anybody's "blaming" KW and Hahn for that. They were fired in August. 

I guess it's self-validating to pretend that you would have gone out there and forced the best players in the league to take less money to play for your team. LOL. Getz took over a husk of a 60 win team. 

I don't want to keep going back and forth and I haven't dug in this deep, but you just clearly miss the big picture. It's really hard to lose 20 more games. It wasn't a shell problem, it was Getz. Terrrible bullpens are how you end up with historic badness. Getz work there was next level bad.

Getz traded Bummer for 5 players, 4 of which played in the bigs for 215 combined games. They combined accumulated .8 fWAR which was less than Bummers 1.1 in 56 games.

From a cumulative perspective you're talking about a -4 win impacting trade.

12/28 he releases Declan Cronin who goes on to have a 1.3 fWAR season.

He Signs Tim Hill who they release. Signs John Brebbia. Had jesse Chavez in camp and released him and he goes on to have a nice year in Atlanta.

Then he targeted Steven Wilson in his prized trade as the bullpen piece and he was not pitchable.

I'm ignoring everything but for the bullpen where Getz easily lost 15 games last year alone and he did it entirely to himself.

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't want to keep going back and forth and I haven't dug in this deep, but you just clearly miss the big picture. It's really hard to lose 20 more games. It wasn't a shell problem, it was Getz. Terrrible bullpens are how you end up with historic badness. Getz work there was next level bad.

Getz traded Bummer for 5 players, 4 of which played in the bigs for 215 combined games. They combined accumulated .8 fWAR which was less than Bummers 1.1 in 56 games.

From a cumulative perspective you're talking about a -4 win impacting trade.

12/28 he releases Declan Cronin who goes on to have a 1.3 fWAR season.

He Signs Tim Hill who they release. Signs John Brebbia. Had jesse Chavez in camp and released him and he goes on to have a nice year in Atlanta.

Then he targeted Steven Wilson in his prized trade as the bullpen piece and he was not pitchable.

I'm ignoring everything but for the bullpen where Getz easily lost 15 games last year alone and he did it entirely to himself.

Sure. But he came into 2024 with no bullpen, and had to build it from scratch. It was hit and miss. Mostly miss. But it's not like he was gifted a stellar bullpen that he wrecked. Guys got injured. Vets like Brebbia, Leone and Tim Hill suddenly forgot how to pitch.

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Sure. But he came into 2024 with no bullpen, and had to build it from scratch. It was hit and miss. Mostly miss. But it's not like he was gifted a stellar bullpen that he wrecked. Guys got injured. Vets like Brebbia, Leone and Tim Hill suddenly forgot how to pitch.

Leone didn’t exactly having recent signs of much success in his prior two seasons.

13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't want to keep going back and forth and I haven't dug in this deep, but you just clearly miss the big picture. It's really hard to lose 20 more games. It wasn't a shell problem, it was Getz. Terrrible bullpens are how you end up with historic badness. Getz work there was next level bad.

Getz traded Bummer for 5 players, 4 of which played in the bigs for 215 combined games. They combined accumulated .8 fWAR which was less than Bummers 1.1 in 56 games.

From a cumulative perspective you're talking about a -4 win impacting trade.

12/28 he releases Declan Cronin who goes on to have a 1.3 fWAR season.

He Signs Tim Hill who they release. Signs John Brebbia. Had jesse Chavez in camp and released him and he goes on to have a nice year in Atlanta.

Then he targeted Steven Wilson in his prized trade as the bullpen piece and he was not pitchable.

I'm ignoring everything but for the bullpen where Getz easily lost 15 games last year alone and he did it entirely to himself.

And Kopech…really, Banks was the only halfway decent move.  Trading closer Santos hardly paid off for either team…and Leasure went from closer candidate to whatever he ended the season as.

25 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Why don't you ask somebody who drafts players and signs them. Is that the head of development? 

Sorry, I had Getz’s previous job title wrong.  He was the director of player development.

14 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And Kopech…really, Banks was the only halfway decent move.  Trading closer Santos hardly paid off for either team…and Leasure went from closer candidate to whatever he ended the season as.

The Eloy and DeJong trades were fine. Santos brought a draft pick that brought Blake Larson. 

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't want to keep going back and forth and I haven't dug in this deep, but you just clearly miss the big picture. It's really hard to lose 20 more games. It wasn't a shell problem, it was Getz. Terrrible bullpens are how you end up with historic badness. Getz work there was next level bad.

Getz traded Bummer for 5 players, 4 of which played in the bigs for 215 combined games. They combined accumulated .8 fWAR which was less than Bummers 1.1 in 56 games.

From a cumulative perspective you're talking about a -4 win impacting trade.

12/28 he releases Declan Cronin who goes on to have a 1.3 fWAR season.

He Signs Tim Hill who they release. Signs John Brebbia. Had jesse Chavez in camp and released him and he goes on to have a nice year in Atlanta.

Then he targeted Steven Wilson in his prized trade as the bullpen piece and he was not pitchable.

I'm ignoring everything but for the bullpen where Getz easily lost 15 games last year alone and he did it entirely to himself.

Bummer had a 6 era when he was moved. Getz struck out in his reliever flip signings, but they were relievers and we all know they're fickle. None of them were signed to win games. They were signed to build trade value. Luckily, he nailed Crochet as a flip candidate and turned a reliever with absolutely no value into a starter with ace value.

 

17 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

And Kopech…really, Banks was the only halfway decent move.  Trading closer Santos hardly paid off for either team…and Leasure went from closer candidate to whatever he ended the season as.

Kopech has pitched 2 good months in 5 years. Let's not pretend he was a commodity.

6 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Kopech has pitched 2 good months in 5 years. Let's not pretend he was a commodity.

His 2021 and 2022 seasons say that you are full of s%*#.  The Dodgers thought he was a commodity.

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

Would anybody be shocked if Leasure and Wilson are lights out this year and suddenly have value? This is the nature of relievers with good stuff.

7 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Would anybody be shocked if Leasure and Wilson are lights out this year and suddenly have value? This is the nature of relievers with good stuff.

No on Wilson.  He has at least shown some history of success.  Yes on Leasure.  But neither one throws enough strikes.  They both walk the world.

Edited January 12, 20251 yr by WhiteSox2023

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

His 2021 and 2022 seasons say that you are full of s%*#.  The Dodgers thought he was a commodity.

5 WAR over 400 IP. Lol, man.

The Fedde trade looks bad right now, be it's not because of Kopech. Although people are really undervaluing Albertus and Perez.

11 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

The Fedde trade looks bad right now, be it's not because of Kopech. Although people are really undervaluing Albertus and Perez.

It’s a shame Getz didn’t just trade Kopech for Albertus and Perez and dealt Fedde in a separate deal.

22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It’s a shame Getz didn’t just trade Kopech for Albertus and Perez and dealt Fedde in a separate deal.

Agreed. I'm still fine with giving Vargas another year. I do like the tools. He looks mentally broken though.

4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Agreed. I'm still fine with giving Vargas another year. I do like the tools. He looks mentally broken though.

The big difference between us is that I'm going to pull for Vargas like hell, and you're going to hope he fails. You'd rather hate everything White Sox and be "right" and I'd rather have the White Sox just be good. It's the nature of this message board now.

2 hours ago, ChiSox59 said:

Which is completely worthless to the Sox.  Dude was on the team last year, and they lost the most games in the baseball history.  Sox would win more games with Crochet in 2025, but they'd still be a terrible 110+ loss team.  Sitting on that asset while it depreciates (and has significant risk of injury) is outrageously stupid. 

I don't care if Crochet wins the CY in 2025; in fact, I hope he does.  It doesn't change anything. 

That's where some of you differ from some of us. You say Crochet is worthless to the Sox. If you have a great player some of us think it's fun to watch him wear our jersey and win a few games. If you keep your Crochets, Cease's and some of the other guys let go in "rebuilding" you might actually be able to win the old fashioned way. But let's just keep dumping all our good players in the name of a tank/rebuild job. Ridiculous. And this last one didn't work and some of you still like tanking/rebuilding rather than keeping your good players.