PaleAleSox Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Couldn't work with Colas, can't fix Robert....so therefore can't be successful with Canario, lol? Seems like an associative theory or math thread, if A=B and B=C, then...other than occasional successes on the pitching front, they still haven't defined what their niche or wheelhouse even is, exactly. It's always these arguments where there's a handful of Romy Gonzalezes and Alex Calls out there, so maybe they simply drafted the wrong players, or couldn't develop the players they did draft or sign, so which is it, precisely? You love bringing up Romy Gonzalez like he set the world on fire last year. He was…fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 17 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said: You love bringing up Romy Gonzalez like he set the world on fire last year. He was…fine. A .723 OPS would have led the White Sox (of the players left by season's end), lol. Sure, it's a LOW LOW bar, and it was only 200+ at-bats, but I'm not sure that's more of an indictment of the talent level of the players brought into the Sox system or an indictment of the development side. Or probably 50/50. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/callal02.shtml Maybe the biggest success story, and that's not saying a whole helluva lot, in the overall scheme of things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: A .723 OPS would have led the White Sox (of the players left by season's end), lol. Sure, it's a LOW LOW bar, and it was only 200+ at-bats, but I'm not sure that's more of an indictment of the talent level of the players brought into the Sox system or an indictment of the development side. Or probably 50/50. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/callal02.shtml Maybe the biggest success story, and that's not saying a whole helluva lot, in the overall scheme of things. Romy Gonzalez is 28. I've had it beaten into my head that he's too old, and won't be here for the next "competitive window", thus disqualifying him. All Baseball players must be 23 or they're bums. That's the rule. LOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 40 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Romy Gonzalez is 28. I've had it beaten into my head that he's too old, and won't be here for the next "competitive window", thus disqualifying him. All Baseball players must be 23 or they're bums. That's the rule. LOL. Well, that’s probably accurate. It doesn’t make Romy a bum. It just makes him a bit too old for what is looking like will be a 5+ year Sox rebuild. I doubt Romy will still be a productive player into his mid 30’s. Unless you think the Sox rebuild will be shorter? Edited April 29 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 10 hours ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.mlb.com/stats/ops?page=2 Arguably 15 of these players could have been or were White Sox at one point or another. The problem is we'll bring up a Ben Rice or Austin Hays or whoever and it will always be he wouldn't be willing to sign with an AL Central team or JR won't authorize new contracts over $5 or we don't have the trade capital to pull it off...there can always be some sort of excuse or defense. That was Hahn...that was KW. If we're now relegated to puff pieces on Colson's athleticism for SS when he's hitting around .170 or whatever...it's a bit worrisome since this rebuild seems largely based on the young prospects becoming stars rather than big-time FA spending. Give him some time. Can't waste even a single year. But time keeps ticking away. Minus major major changes it's going to be four years of 100+ loss teams...and a product we can't even give away for free in the face of the Cubs having one of the most entertaining teams in baseball. Even the burst of Ishbia excitement has been been dampened. Arguably 15 of those guys could have been or were White Sox at one point or another ? Wait what ? I don't see a single ex White Sox among the current 25-50 OPS leaders . If you're arguing that 15 of those 25 guys could have been drafted by the Sox instead what's your point ? That kind of thing happens all the time .Mike Trout was passed up by a lot of teams. If 3rd round or later draft picks become stars every team passes on them multiple times. Just out of curiosity can you name the 15 players you are talking about and please point out the ex Sox I can't see among the 25. If you're talking about international players again only 1 team ends up with them and the rest don't. Same thing with free agents or guys traded. I'm trying to see a point but I'm failing. You just took the top 25-50 OPS leaders, went through the list, and determined the Sox could have had 15 of them of the 25 ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Arguably 15 of those guys could have been or were White Sox at one point or another ? Wait what ? I don't see a single ex White Sox among the current 25-50 OPS leaders . If you're arguing that 15 of those 25 guys could have been drafted by the Sox instead what's your point ? That kind of thing happens all the time .Mike Trout was passed up by a lot of teams. If 3rd round or later draft picks become stars every team passes on them multiple times. Just out of curiosity can you name the 15 players you are talking about and please point out the ex Sox I can't see among the 25. If you're talking about international players again only 1 team ends up with them and the rest don't. Same thing with free agents or guys traded. I'm trying to see a point but I'm failing. You just took the top 25-50 OPS leaders, went through the list, and determined the Sox could have had 15 of them of the 25 ? Were either original White Sox property or could have been acquired within the past six years Tatis Jr. obviously... Jonathan Aranda for sure coming into 2025 Aranda was optioned to Triple-A Durham to begin the 2023 season.[14] In 34 games for the Rays, he batted .230/.340/.368 with two home runs and 13 RBI.[15] In 2024, Aranda was poised to make the Opening Day roster after a strong spring. However, on March 20, 2024, he suffered a broken right ring finger while fielding a ground ball, and underwent surgery that ruled him out for four–to–six weeks.[16] Goldschmidt FA E.Suarez FA The Mariners received right-hander Carlos Vargas and veteran catcher Seby Zavala for Suarez, who has belted at least 21 home runs in each of the past seven full seasons. K.Campbell could have been drafted before 4th round Pages Andy What Joc Pederson didn’t realize then, and was only reminded of recently: Pages was once almost traded by the Dodgers, reportedly part of a 2020 deal (nixed By Arte Moreno) that would have sent Pederson, Ross Stripling and a then-teenage Pages to the Angels to the Angels for infielder Luis Rengifo and two Minor Leaguers to clear payroll space for Betts/Price. Nootbaar drafted 8th round StL Goodman 4th round 2021 $600k Hoskins FA K.Carpenter drafted quite late by DET, 19th round in fact Edman traded last year Harper FA if interested in 2019....never made a serious/legit run at him that's just #26-50 without going through all of #10-25 Edited April 29 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 1 hour ago, caulfield12 said: Were either original White Sox property or could have been acquired within the past six years Tatis Jr. obviously... Aranda for sure coming into 2025 Goldschmidt FA Suarez FA Campbell could have been drafted before 4th round Pages intl FA Cuba Nootbaar FA Japan Goodman Hoskins FA Carpenter drafted late by DET Edman traded last year Harper FA if interested 2019....never made a serious/legit run at him that's just #26-50 without going through all of #10-25 My dude this is one of your biggest stretches of the year. Hawk is yelling “get back there! STRETCH!” And the outfielder is moving -in-. Not your finest argument 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 7 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Well, that’s probably accurate. It doesn’t make Romy a bum. It just makes him a bit too old for what is looking like will be a 5+ year Sox rebuild. I doubt Romy will still be a productive player into his mid 30’s. Unless you think the Sox rebuild will be shorter? It's still good to have some guys here producing that you can either extend or trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 6 hours ago, Kyyle23 said: My dude this is one of your biggest stretches of the year. Hawk is yelling “get back there! STRETCH!” And the outfielder is moving -in-. Not your finest argument It's not even the biggest stretch of the last 12 hours 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 16 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: It's not even the biggest stretch of the last 12 hours Shane Smith is not THE story of this White Sox season...called on March 9th? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 13 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Shane Smith is not THE story of this White Sox season...called on March 9th? Tim Elko and the City Connect jerseys seem to have relegated him to "Shane Who"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 12 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Tim Elko and the City Connect jerseys seem to have relegated him to "Shane Who"? https://www.mlb.com/news/tobias-myers-standout-rookie-season-brewers Former White Sox/Charlotte Knight "flameout" Tobias Meyers vs. former Brewers' prospect Shane Smith on Wed is the match up the entire baseball world has been secretly waiting for. Revenge Game. It's on like Ping Pong in Hong Kong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: https://www.mlb.com/news/tobias-myers-standout-rookie-season-brewers Former White Sox/Charlotte Knight "flameout" Tobias Meyers vs. former Brewers' prospect Shane Smith on Wed is the match up the entire baseball world has been secretly waiting for. Revenge Game. It's on like Ping Pong in Hong Kong. They might even have the one guy in the Sox' organization who remembers Meyers throw out the first pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 (edited) 8 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Were either original White Sox property or could have been acquired within the past six years Tatis Jr. obviously... Jonathan Aranda for sure coming into 2025 Aranda was optioned to Triple-A Durham to begin the 2023 season.[14] In 34 games for the Rays, he batted .230/.340/.368 with two home runs and 13 RBI.[15] In 2024, Aranda was poised to make the Opening Day roster after a strong spring. However, on March 20, 2024, he suffered a broken right ring finger while fielding a ground ball, and underwent surgery that ruled him out for four–to–six weeks.[16] Goldschmidt FA E.Suarez FA The Mariners received right-hander Carlos Vargas and veteran catcher Seby Zavala for Suarez, who has belted at least 21 home runs in each of the past seven full seasons. K.Campbell could have been drafted before 4th round Pages Andy What Joc Pederson didn’t realize then, and was only reminded of recently: Pages was once almost traded by the Dodgers, reportedly part of a 2020 deal (nixed By Arte Moreno) that would have sent Pederson, Ross Stripling and a then-teenage Pages to the Angels to the Angels for infielder Luis Rengifo and two Minor Leaguers to clear payroll space for Betts/Price. Nootbaar drafted 8th round StL Goodman 4th round 2021 $600k Hoskins FA K.Carpenter drafted quite late by DET, 19th round in fact Edman traded last year Harper FA if interested in 2019....never made a serious/legit run at him that's just #26-50 without going through all of #10-25 Tatis isn't on the list . 8 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Were either original White Sox property or could have been acquired within the past six years Tatis Jr. obviously... Jonathan Aranda for sure coming into 2025 Aranda was optioned to Triple-A Durham to begin the 2023 season.[14] In 34 games for the Rays, he batted .230/.340/.368 with two home runs and 13 RBI.[15] In 2024, Aranda was poised to make the Opening Day roster after a strong spring. However, on March 20, 2024, he suffered a broken right ring finger while fielding a ground ball, and underwent surgery that ruled him out for four–to–six weeks.[16] Goldschmidt FA E.Suarez FA The Mariners received right-hander Carlos Vargas and veteran catcher Seby Zavala for Suarez, who has belted at least 21 home runs in each of the past seven full seasons. K.Campbell could have been drafted before 4th round Pages Andy What Joc Pederson didn’t realize then, and was only reminded of recently: Pages was once almost traded by the Dodgers, reportedly part of a 2020 deal (nixed By Arte Moreno) that would have sent Pederson, Ross Stripling and a then-teenage Pages to the Angels to the Angels for infielder Luis Rengifo and two Minor Leaguers to clear payroll space for Betts/Price. Nootbaar drafted 8th round StL Goodman 4th round 2021 $600k Hoskins FA K.Carpenter drafted quite late by DET, 19th round in fact Edman traded last year Harper FA if interested in 2019....never made a serious/legit run at him that's just #26-50 without going through all of #10-25 Tatis Jr isn't on that list and I have no idea who Aranda is but he isn't on that list either, so there are, as I said, no ex Sox property on that list. The rest is just garbage conjecture that can apply to any team in baseball for those players,unless it was a 1st rd pick where the Sox especially had an earlier pick which would also apply to numerous teams depending on the player and where they were drafted. Do the words draft and crapshoot and hardest sport to assess talent mean anything to you ? I'm not absolving the White Sox or Getz or Hahn or KW of having bad scouts or development people through the years of Reinsdorf's reign but wow just wow. That is some, umm, abstract thinking or just plain Yellow Journalism. Edited April 29 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 50 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Tatis isn't on the list . Tatis Jr isn't on that list and I have no idea who Aranda is but he isn't on that list either, so there are, as I said, no ex Sox property on that list. The rest is just garbage conjecture that can apply to any team in baseball for those players,unless it was a 1st rd pick where the Sox especially had an earlier pick which would also apply to numerous teams depending on the player and where they were drafted. Do the words draft and crapshoot and hardest sport to assess talent mean anything to you ? I'm not absolving the White Sox or Getz or Hahn or KW of having bad scouts or development people through the years of Reinsdorf's reign but wow just wow. That is some, umm, abstract thinking or just plain Yellow Journalism. Tatis is Top 4-5 in MLB ops and will be in the MVP conversation until the Padres fall out of playoff convention due to injuries and NL West competition. He's now back to the .957 career ops guy he was prior to the 2023 season. But yeah...JR would have just traded him anyway. Harper we can argue for days but he would have been the smartest marketing and on field addition over Machado. But Boras.... Aranda any team in the majors could have acquired coming off his last two years. The White Sox have Quero/Hahn, Shane Smith, Crochet and Fedde...the point is not that ANY organization besides the Didgers could pull off those moves...it's just that we don't do it nearly enough for a team that won't ever spend its way into competitiveness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 3 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Tatis is Top 4-5 in MLB ops and will be in the MVP conversation until the Padres fall out of playoff convention due to injuries and NL West competition. He's now back to the .957 career ops guy he was prior to the 2023 season. But yeah...JR would have just traded him anyway. Harper we can argue for days but he would have been the smartest marketing and on field addition over Machado. But Boras.... Aranda any team in the majors could have acquired coming off his last two years. The White Sox have Quero/Hahn, Shane Smith, Crochet and Fedde...the point is not that ANY organization besides the Didgers could pull off those moves...it's just that we don't do it nearly enough for a team that won't ever spend its way into competitiveness. Make a point then don't make up stuff and say Sox are on a list when they aren't when you give a link to that list. And saying the Sox could've had 15 of the 25 on the list is a big fat nothing, when all other teams theoretically could've had them too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Make a point then don't make up stuff and say Sox are on a list when they aren't when you give a link to that list. And saying the Sox could've had 15 of the 25 on the list is a big fat nothing, when all other teams theoretically could've had them too. That's theoretically true...it's just that Sox fans don't get to have nice things. Or almost never. Or we briefly have them but they don't last long. So Colson's on the horizon...but he's actually an oasis, and now he's literally IN the desert. Metaphorically as well. Keith Law was the first to hype Tatis into an MiLB Top Ten and the first to cast Colson out of the Top 100. Somehow fitting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 On 4/28/2025 at 2:18 PM, caulfield12 said: Brooks Baldwin has been on a nice little run recently but he's still hardly into plus fWAR territory due to his issues on the defensive side of the ball. He does have good speed...but it's unclear yet if he's going to be more than?a super utility player. You do know that small sample defensive stats stats for super utility guys are almost always bad because you need a large sample size of plays to get a true read on a player. Even when Vaughn was playing LF in the midst of all the Vaughn fawning, people where saying ooh he's not doing so bad out there. He's like an average LFer. I was like you people gotta be kidding me. There is no way he will ever be a full time OF who is average defensively. The more he plays the more he will be exposed. Point is you need bigger sample sizes to get an accurate defensive picture and even then his value is in his utility ability to play the positions passably with his offensive switch hitting ability . Everybody has flaws . Let's not blow them up. We're trying to avoid the players with lots of flaws and little upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 34 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You do know that small sample defensive stats stats for super utility guys are almost always bad because you need a large sample size of plays to get a true read on a player. Even when Vaughn was playing LF in the midst of all the Vaughn fawning, people where saying ooh he's not doing so bad out there. He's like an average LFer. I was like you people gotta be kidding me. There is no way he will ever be a full time OF who is average defensively. The more he plays the more he will be exposed. Point is you need bigger sample sizes to get an accurate defensive picture and even then his value is in his utility ability to play the positions passably with his offensive switch hitting ability . Everybody has flaws . Let's not blow them up. We're trying to avoid the players with lots of flaws and little upside. Baldwin, if he could hit 15-18 bombs and steal 30-40 bases, suddenly becomes much more viable....but half those numbers is what I would more realistically expect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted April 29 Share Posted April 29 10 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Baldwin, if he could hit 15-18 bombs and steal 30-40 bases, suddenly becomes much more viable....but half those numbers is what I would more realistically expect. Give him a chance. I don't think he a 30-40 base stealer. Improvements he could make is probably chase rate.Im good with how he's been doing. He getting used to the big leagues.He's doing fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) What is the point of Rojas on this team anyway? I the Sox could do with more roster churn. Not sure what the theory of Joshua Palacios on this roster is (nor Amaya, Taylor et al). Edited April 30 by GreenSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 (edited) 1 hour ago, GreenSox said: What is the point of Rojas on this team anyway? I the Sox could do with more roster churn. Not sure what the theory of Joshua Palacios on this roster is (nor Amaya, Taylor et al). It’s funny because I remember when Rojas was signed, some people questioned adding him when the roster was full of infielders already. Now I really don’t see the need for him. The sad thing is, Getz loaded up on all of these one year vets and I don’t see any of them being traded for anything of consequence at the deadline. Edited April 30 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It’s funny because I remember when Rojas was signed, some people questioned adding him when the roster was full of infielders already. Now I really don’t see the need for him. Sosa, Meidroth, Baldwin and Vargas weren't sure things coming into the season. Rojas was veteran insurance in the case of a complete collapse like last year. If Vargas is indeed hitting, there isn't any real need for Rojas. If Ramos starts hitting, there really isn't any need for Rojas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 17 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It’s funny because I remember when Rojas was signed, some people questioned adding him when the roster was full of infielders already. Now I really don’t see the need for him. The sad thing is, Getz loaded up on all of these one year vets and I don’t see any of them being traded for anything of consequence at the deadline. I didn't really want them to sign an infielder, but since they did I thought a guy like Jorge Polanco would have been a better fit. See if he can hit enough and trade to a contender at least. Looks like he's bounced back nicely so far looking at his numbers. Granted, he wouldn't have signed for the same dollar amount, even though payroll is so cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted April 30 Share Posted April 30 7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: I didn't really want them to sign an infielder, but since they did I thought a guy like Jorge Polanco would have been a better fit. See if he can hit enough and trade to a contender at least. Looks like he's bounced back nicely so far looking at his numbers. Granted, he wouldn't have signed for the same dollar amount, even though payroll is so cheap. Polanco is having a nice bounce back year so far at the plate, but can't play the field or hit right handed yet, nor can he play every day as he works his way back to full strength. He was so bad last year though that picking him up as a flip candidate would have been risky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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