Cannon to 15-day IL, Caleb Freeman up from Charlotte

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

4 hours ago, ptatc said:

I'm sure they are monitoring those metrics . Typically they are related to arm issues. Bit the same ideas apply. Are they changing due to fatigue? Just mechanics today? He was able to work through it the last couple of starts. This time he couldn't so he goes on the IL.

He was complaining of back issues. Talked his way into pitching. The team proceeds to start him and let him throw lesser stuff for 4+ innings. 

In my opinion, that's 3 innings too many.

[kitekrazy]

Since they have a habit of working players in different positions maybe they should do that with the mound

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He was complaining of back issues. Talked his way into pitching. The team proceeds to start him and let him throw lesser stuff for 4+ innings. 

In my opinion, that's 3 innings too many.

That could be. Could also have been after the 2 previous outings where he handled it well, he said he would be fine again. He showed he could do it before. This time he couldn't so they decided to IL him.

Injuries and pain aren't a dichotomy, injured or not, in most cases. Most pitchers have some sort of pain after a month if they're lucky. It's a constant battle of what can they deal with and still perform and what needs time off.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

58 minutes ago, ptatc said:

That could be. Could also have been after the 2 previous outings where he handled it well, he said he would be fine again. He showed he could do it before. This time he couldn't so they decided to IL him.

Injuries and pain aren't a dichotomy, injured or not, in most cases. Most pitchers have some sort of pain after a month if they're lucky. It's a constant battle of what can they deal with and still perform and what needs time off.

I agree with almost everything you say about player injuries and the true decision makers being the players.

That said, it is absolutely the teams job to protect a player from himself. When you're aware of a situation and then see supporting evidence indicating it's negative impact, you need to stop listening to the player and react immediately. That doesn't mean forcing treatment but it absolutely means removing him from the game when you see things like large Velo declines, lesser RPM's, variance in release point. 

Amazingly enough often times metrics will show fatigue or injury sooner than the person will express the condition. 

[southsider2k5]

18 hours ago, ptatc said:

Sure. Every team has issues just look around the league. They may have more than others but they aren't alone.

To say its only the white sox and that they should ignore everything players say is just wrong.

If a players says he's fine, what tests do you perform, strength, facet, nerve tension tests? You can only tests where there may be some issues.

Eventually, the players have responsibilities as well.

What happened here was he had some issues, they gave him extra time, he thought he was good to go, pitched, didn't recover well so they are now giving him more time to recover.

When it is obvious to fans on TV that something is wrong how is it NOT obvious to those paid to do those jobs?  Like last when Luis Robert was out there swinging with one arm, the whole world knew something was up.  They repeatedly runs players who are hurt out there.  Of course people are going to question it, especially with the crazy amount of injuries we keep seeing. 

[nrockway]

I didn't watch his start, was he clearly out there pitching injured? or is the commentary because he skipped that start last week for the same problem?

I dunno what "lower back tightness" means regarding baseball, but I'd speculate it isn't like "elbow inflammation", ie the precursor to a more serious injury. Maybe he needs 2 weeks off to get right and we're not a competitive team regardless, but is there any evidence to indicate his manager, coaches, trainers are destroying his career? If the guy says he's fine regarding what is probably a strained muscle, what are you really gonna do about it? My completely uninformed medical opinion is that you either play through it or rest it for a couple of weeks. I can't imagine this guy is getting surgery or missing time. 

My question is: was there anybody already on the 40man to take his spot? I guess Freeman already was. Also Elko's back...Sosa got hurt?!

Edited June 4 by nrockway

[caulfield12]

9 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I didn't watch his start, was he clearly out there pitching injured? or is the commentary because he skipped that start last week for the same problem?

I dunno what "lower back tightness" means regarding baseball, but I'd speculate it isn't like "elbow inflammation", ie the precursor to a more serious injury. Maybe he needs 2 weeks off to get right and we're not a competitive team regardless, but is there any evidence to indicate his manager, coaches, trainers are destroying his career? If the guy says he's fine regarding what is probably a strained muscle, what are you really gonna do about it? My completely uninformed medical opinion is that you either play through it or rest it for a couple of weeks. I can't imagine this guy is getting surgery or missing time. 

My question is: was there anybody already on the 40man to take his spot? I guess Freeman already was. Also Elko's back...Sosa got hurt?!

Back spasms are a whole world away from just a strained muscle...sometimes they go away completely in 2-3 days, or 3-5, or it could be much longer, like what Colson Montgomery experienced in ST.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, nrockway said:

I didn't watch his start, was he clearly out there pitching injured? or is the commentary because he skipped that start last week for the same problem?

I dunno what "lower back tightness" means regarding baseball, but I'd speculate it isn't like "elbow inflammation", ie the precursor to a more serious injury. Maybe he needs 2 weeks off to get right and we're not a competitive team regardless, but is there any evidence to indicate his manager, coaches, trainers are destroying his career? If the guy says he's fine regarding what is probably a strained muscle, what are you really gonna do about it? My completely uninformed medical opinion is that you either play through it or rest it for a couple of weeks. I can't imagine this guy is getting surgery or missing time. 

My question is: was there anybody already on the 40man to take his spot? I guess Freeman already was. Also Elko's back...Sosa got hurt?!

Riley Gowens at AA is probably the closest thing to a starter they could promote, and he's really a year away. Jesse Scholtens is throwing rehab starts at AAA, but he doesn't look ready at all. At this point, their best options might be a 2-headed, 5-inning monster of Vasil/Shuster, or waiver wire churn. The guys they have starting at AAA are really just depth. Chris Rodriguez and Owen White would be worse than what's on the big league squad. 

Edited June 4 by WestEddy
spelling

[nrockway]

Just now, WestEddy said:

Riley Gowens at AA is probably the closest thing to a starter they could promote, and he's really a year away. Jesse Scholtens is throwing rehab starts at AAA, but he doesn't look ready at all. At this point, their best options might be a 2-headed, 5-inning monster or Vasil/Shuster, or waiver wire churn. The guys they have starting at AAA are really just depth. Chris Rodriguez and Owen White would be worse than what's on the big league squad. 

Yeah it's concerning to me how bad the minor league pitching is. Obviously there are a lot of injuries, but basically every healthy pitcher has taken a step back in some way or their health concerns have manifested and turned them into relievers. Nasty Nick almost looked like a MLB starter, now his ERA is like 8 at Charlotte. I thought Schweitzer was gonna have a big season, guess not.

Surprised we haven't seen Karinchak yet. His stats look pretty good (besides 7BB/9, but he was doing than in MLB too) and he has a track record of being a good MLB reliever before the injury. I haven't watched him in a Sox uniform, maybe his velocity fell off a cliff, his K% this year is lower than it ever was in MLB, but I think I would've preferred him over spending international bonus $ on Castro. Castro, Altavilla, Karinchak all basically seem like the same player to me. Pretty decent AAAA depth in consideration of all the injuries, just see no value in giving up an asset for a player like that, even a minor one.

How do we account for this though: Charlotte by far leads the International League in walks issued. Birmingham is tied for first in their league. The Dash and Cannon Ballers are marginally better at 3rd and 6th, but I think it's concerning that it's such an issue at the upper levels. 

[WestEddy]

29 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Yeah it's concerning to me how bad the minor league pitching is. Obviously there are a lot of injuries, but basically every healthy pitcher has taken a step back in some way or their health concerns have manifested and turned them into relievers. Nasty Nick almost looked like a MLB starter, now his ERA is like 8 at Charlotte. I thought Schweitzer was gonna have a big season, guess not.

Surprised we haven't seen Karinchak yet. His stats look pretty good (besides 7BB/9, but he was doing than in MLB too) and he has a track record of being a good MLB reliever before the injury. I haven't watched him in a Sox uniform, maybe his velocity fell off a cliff, his K% this year is lower than it ever was in MLB, but I think I would've preferred him over spending international bonus $ on Castro. Castro, Altavilla, Karinchak all basically seem like the same player to me. Pretty decent AAAA depth in consideration of all the injuries, just see no value in giving up an asset for a player like that, even a minor one.

How do we account for this though: Charlotte by far leads the International League in walks issued. Birmingham is tied for first in their league. The Dash and Cannon Ballers are marginally better at 3rd and 6th, but I think it's concerning that it's such an issue at the upper levels. 

Schweitzer did great at AA, then got promoted to a tougher level, playing in a bandbox. I think that the injuries making room for lesser pitchers is one factor that accounts for some of the walks. Then a guy like Christian Oppor dominates at low-A, gets promoted, and can't throw strikes. I would think him getting hammered when he's in the zone causes him to start nibbling and missing. 

I have no idea what happened to Nastrini and Iriarte. 

[chitownsportsfan]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Schweitzer did great at AA, then got promoted to a tougher level, playing in a bandbox. I think that the injuries making room for lesser pitchers is one factor that accounts for some of the walks. Then a guy like Christian Oppor dominates at low-A, gets promoted, and can't throw strikes. I would think him getting hammered when he's in the zone causes him to start nibbling and missing. 

I have no idea what happened to Nastrini and Iriarte. 

It's pitching. TINSTAAPP. Key is always just massive volume of guys that you think you can project. Many will fail, almost all will fail, regardless of how good your scouting is. Also helps to resign the studs you find but this is the White Sox we don't do that here.

[caulfield12]

Prediction

Ryan Cusick will get closing opportunities before the end of the season for the Sox.

 

BA Scouting Report

Scouting Grades: Fastball: 70. Slider: 55. Changeup: 40. Control: 40

Scouting Report: Scouts loved Cusick’s power potential in college (Wake Forest, same school as Shane Smith) harbored concerns about his inconsistent command. That assessment has held true so far as a pro. His plus fastball sat more in the 95-97 mph range in 2022 and the metric-savvy righthander worked with the A’s to tweak the grip on his fastball to restore some induced vertical break. He’s still working to find a consistent feel for his breaking ball. The Braves worked with Cusick to throw a harder, vertically-breaking slider. The pitch sat 85-86 and has above-average potential, but was inconsistent in both shape and command. He rarely turns to his firm, low-90s changeup that needs considerable refinement. There’s some reliever risk in Cusick’s delivery, although his injury may have contributed to his strike-throwing woes in 2022.

[DoUEvenShift]

 

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

 

5.24 ERA and 1.52 WHIP in Charlotte, but I guess they need an arm…

[Timmy U]

I hope to God they're not inserting White into the rotation. White's numbers are buoyed by a relatively strong start. It's been pretty rough for him over the last month.

[caulfield12]

31 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I hope to God they're not inserting White into the rotation. White's numbers are buoyed by a relatively strong start. It's been pretty rough for him over the last month.

He's a WS champ with the Rangers.

Albeit less than 10 IP that year w/ Texas.