Sean Burke optioned to AAA; Owen White called up

[WhiteSox2023]

 

[Princess Dye]

interesting that we'll manage a promising guy's innings even if he's Needed ..in the rotation.  and not specifically a Crochet situation.

[Jake]

Not totally clear on what they're trying to accomplish here. I'm not a big Burke fan but seems like this can't be purely performance-related.

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, Jake said:

Not totally clear on what they're trying to accomplish here. I'm not a big Burke fan but seems like this can't be purely performance-related.

Tyler Osik told the org that Sean Burke likes to play too much Settlers of Catan.

Actual guess: He's gassed.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

Tyler Osik told the org that Sean Burke likes to play too much Settlers of Catan.

Actual guess: He's gassed.

I am sure it is this.  Again, none of these guys have gone through a full major league season.  Burke has gone over 100 innings in a season once in his college/MiLB/MLB career until this year.  He hit 108 innings in 2022, and it is over 117 this year.  He made it through 71 2/3 last year, and 36 in 2023.

Again, this is why we needed more pitchers.  

[oldsox]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

Tyler Osik told the org that Sean Burke likes to play too much Settlers of Catan.

Actual guess: He's gassed.

Early Wynn and Warren Spahn just turned over in their urns.

[WestEddy]

From the MLBTR article:

White Sox Option Sean Burke - MLB Trade Rumors

Quote

It also might not be a total coincidence that Burke is just shy of getting to one year of service time. He came into this season with 20 service days. By my count, he has added 144 days to that so far in 2025, bringing him to 164. A year rolls over at 172, so Burke is eight days away from that line.

 

[Quin]

31 minutes ago, oldsox said:

Early Wynn and Warren Spahn just turned over in their urns.

And Cy Young and Ed Walsh thought that they were weak bitches.

Times change.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

From the MLBTR article:

White Sox Option Sean Burke - MLB Trade Rumors

 

If they're playing service tricks with a guy whose more likely to be out of the league than in it in 6 years, shame on them.

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, Quin said:

And Cy Young and Ed Walsh thought that they were weak bitches.

Times change.

Those dudes also threw slow pitch softball speeds.

[mac9001]

I don't hate the idea of making guys earn the playing time at the big league level, but there's probably two guys in the rotation less deserving of innings.

Edited August 19 by mac9001

[joejoesox]

lol just saw this

how does katz still have a job 

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

lol just saw this

how does katz still have a job 

I am just going to say it outloud, none of these guys are ever going to be that great of pitchers.  Outside of maybe Shane Smith, this rotation is loaded with guys who could top out in the middle of a rotation, but are probably back end guys at best.  I know Keith Law had a Burke crush, but he's never looked like a front end guy.   The bullpen is full of garbage and Grant Taylor.  Taylor is learning on the job, and everyone else is doing what they do.  Look at career numbers for these guys and tell  me who is really out of line for that span.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am just going to say it outloud, none of these guys are ever going to be that great of pitchers.  Outside of maybe Shane Smith, this rotation is loaded with guys who could top out in the middle of a rotation, but are probably back end guys at best.  I know Keith Law had a Burke crush, but he's never looked like a front end guy.   The bullpen is full of garbage and Grant Taylor.  Taylor is learning on the job, and everyone else is doing what they do.  Look at career numbers for these guys and tell  me who is really out of line for that span.

Yeah I feel like most of the SP are at their ceilings (Burke, Cannon, Martin)

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah I feel like most of the SP are at their ceilings (Burke, Cannon, Martin)

Burke is interesting because I could see him being a pretty good high leverage reliever - he has very good stuff. No idea if given his injury history that doesn't work and I certainly am not saying they should move him to the pen - he's a solid starter - but if they ended up with real starting depth - I could see him being very successful out of the pen.  

[oldsox]

I would stick both Burke and Cannon in the bullpen.

[Jake]

FWIW, I just don't feel like Burke's recent pitching gives an obvious explanation for this demotion. Maybe it's service time games or load management, IDK. But this is a weird time for a demotion and it's not like there's a surplus of pitching on the squad.

As for the "what's their ceiling discussion," I tend to feel like Davis Martin might be the most talented of the young guys who have pitched in this year's rotation. But he's also older and has had significant injury history, so it's harder to make optimistic assumptions about his development. He's also kind of small which people tend to hold against pitchers. I like that Martin is a guy who is really willing to geek out on his pitching which gives him some room to reinvent himself if things don't work. It's a trait many of us liked and saw pay off for the more-talented Lucas Giolito.

Burke and Cannon have the big guy thing going for them. Cannon has never been seen as a high-upside guy and I think that's pretty easy to agree with, despite having a good build and flashing some velo at times. I think he has some aptitude for generating glove-side break but he's always walking a bit of a tight rope. Last year he suffered at times for not having a good 4-seamer. This year he has at times shown some good performance from the 4-seam, but everything else has been less consistent and his sinker hasn't been as productive for him. He's another guy who seems extremely detail-oriented and willing to tinker until he finds something that works.

Burke is simpler...good body and good fastball shape even though its velo doesn't really hold up over the long term as a starter. The good shape of his 4-seamer compensates for that though. Everything else he throws basically sucks and as we know he doesn't command anything very well either. His curveball has become a bit of a comfort pitch for him but it's hard to get by with a curve-heavy attack nowadays. I concede that a fastball that people tend to whiff at even when poorly-located and not that fast is a pretty good platform to build from. It's also something that might make him more appealing as a bullpen guy, but there's no free lunches; Jordan Leasure has an absolutely fantastic fastball but as a reliever with a two-pitch mix batters too frequently figure out how to line him up when they know what's coming. I'd guess Burke would similarly simplify to two pitches as a reliever.

Shane Smith gets to boast of the best production so far of these young players, which is good for him because I think the rest of it is hard to interpret as high-ceiling. Pitching continues to be too complicated to be able to perfectly measure a guy's stuff, but to the extent we can measure it, Shane doesn't really have it. The changeup is the exception but it seems to me that he's had real trouble sustaining it and frequently loses confidence. Shane without the changeup is a much different and less exciting pitcher (ask the Brewers). At the level of measurables, his 4-seamer seems like it should be perfect cannon fodder. It's a bit faster than most righty starters but not enough for that to be a big deal on its own. And it doesn't have a good movement profile. It's basically the average righty 4-seamer in both movement and speed, which is usually a ticket to getting killed. But the actual results are pretty good with it! So that's a reason for optimism and I think it might be explained by his kind of unconventional delivery. His slider shows some signs of being a solid pitch too even if it doesn't have anything remarkable about it. His curveball has been important for grabbing strikes against lefties (like Burke) but is also a pitch he gets hurt on a lot (like Burke). I'm guessing he sticks with it partly because otherwise his whole arsenal would be in the 89-95 range. I'll be curious what Shane looks like after an offseason of rest and time to apply some lessons learned after a first season as an everyday starter whose best pitch is a changeup.

But really, none of these guys are very high-ceiling in my view. I'm not really that upset about it. They all have potential to be pretty useful major league starters. You need a lot of those guys in order to survive. The ones with very high ceilings aren't always going to hit them and sometimes those ceilings come crashing down. Every year the Dodgers seem to have 12 MLB-quality starters but sooner or later they're running some bullshit guys out there because they ran out of arms. It comes for every team. 

Edited August 20 by Jake

[Lip Man 1]

Overall I think guys like Smith, Burke, Martin are possibly capable back of the rotation guys. As they get more experience they should be able to keep you in most games and give you a chance.

But they aren't ace material that's pretty clear.

If Schultz, Smith or Taylor don't turn into one (or two) top of the line guys the Sox are going to have to spend big money when Ishbia takes over to solve this situation. 

[GreenSox]

Burke, Cannon, Martin....yes, these guys are 3s at best, probably 4s once they work everything out.  And it does take some experience...we're seeing that on the position side.  Sox just seem to have a longer leash on AAAA and 30 year old + talent than young players.....and that was true with the prior 2 regimes as well.

I figured 1 or 2 of BCM would end up in the pen...but that's because at least 2 of Schultz, Taylor and Smith will head the rotation.  Well that plan isn't going too well, for various reasons on all 3.  
We also have the Shirley  (speaking of a guy who gets a pass) specials like  Kelley and Palette, who might end up being decent relievers.
There  certainly is room in the pen.  The top 3 guys each gave up 2 in KC on Sunday; the second teamers gave up 3 each v. the Braves on Tuesday.  

[oldsox]

I noticed yesterday that Qwen White is already gone, as is Elvis Peguero. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

I think most people in this thread are far too high on Burke. I don't think he's a MLB starter. He has one average pitch and then four below average offerings. 

With Cannon, he at least has two possible + offerings. I think he could be worked with to be serviceable possibly. 

Martin is like 40 years old.

[Bob Sacamano]

35 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I think most people in this thread are far too high on Burke. I don't think he's a MLB starter. He has one average pitch and then four below average offerings. 

With Cannon, he at least has two possible + offerings. I think he could be worked with to be serviceable possibly. 

Martin is like 40 years old.

Davis Martin, not Martin Perez

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

21 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Davis Martin, not Martin Perez

I know, I'm speaking of Davis Martin. He's not literally 40, but he's not a young arm. The guy will be 29 in a few months. 

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I know, I'm speaking of Davis Martin. He's not literally 40, but he's not a young arm. The guy will be 29 in a few months. 

Yeah if there was a team that wanted him in the offseason, I'd sell him.

[southsider2k5]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah if there was a team that wanted him in the offseason, I'd sell him.

Pretty much outside of Shane Smith, I'd listen on any pitcher currently on the staff.