Being bad doesn't = Rebuilding

[77 Hitmen]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

If this had been 10 years ago the Sox would have already had the 4th pick in the 24 draft, the #1 pick in the 25 draft, and be on their way to the #2 pick in 2026.

Instead we got 5th, 10th and TBA.

Typical White Sox luck. 😠

On the other hand, they did have the #4 and #3 picks in 2018-19 and we all know how that turned out.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

At the time, 2019 or so, they had some quality hitters.  Couldn’t really stay healthy but maybe there is a world where they take their health more seriously in a serious organization.

But you are right about NL players.  I was one of the idiots who thought Dunn would be a good compliment to the rest of the hitters the Sox had.  Mea culpa.  Who else has there been?  Grandal?  Rios was a bum but he came from Toronto.  The third baseman that played for the Reds (can’t think of his name.)

Todd Frazier

[Lip Man 1]

16 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I do miss those times.   Since 2005, even when the team is good, they really seemed like underachievers.  In the 3 seasons they made the playoffs since 2005:

2008:  Had a 6 game lead in June and a 2.5 game lead on Sept. 21, choked it away and needed the Blackout Game to salvage the division title.  
2020:  Had a 3 game lead with 8 games remaining and blew it and had to settle for a wild card.
2021:  Played only slightly above .500 in the 2nd half and looked like the weakest of the 10 playoff teams heading into the post-season.

 

 

You forgot the choke job at the end of the 2012 season.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

23 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

I do miss those times.   Since 2005, even when the team is good, they really seemed like underachievers.  In the 3 seasons they made the playoffs since 2005:

2008:  Had a 6 game lead in June and a 2.5 game lead on Sept. 21, choked it away and needed the Blackout Game to salvage the division title.  
2020:  Had a 3 game lead with 8 games remaining and blew it and had to settle for a wild card.
2021:  Played only slightly above .500 in the 2nd half and looked like the weakest of the 10 playoff teams heading into the post-season.

 

 

Blackout game was awesome. 

Leury Garcia game was awesome. 

Those teams didnt win it all, but those were fantastic moments made possible by fielding competitive teams. They lost that series, but it was a great experience with friends and family of mine. I think i even claimed I wouldn't rip leury ever again after that which lasted 6 months. 

[chitownsportsfan]

Playing competitive games is all you can ask for as a fan. It's something we've been denied most of the last 20 years. It's hard to care too much about Colson's accomplishments or Garrett's last year in the face of so many losses. In a way it robs both fans and players of the bond that should be created over time.

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, Tony said:

I'd put it another way. 

"Losing is a choice" 

The White Sox, Pirates, A's...if you gave their owners a lie detector test and asked them if they wanted to win, I believe all would answer yes, and they'd be telling the truth. I think every owner wants to win. But in the case of the teams listed out...winning is not their main priority, and it's viewed as a "nice to have, not need to have" 

Being an owner of a professional sports franchise is an incredibly lucrative investment, no matter where you finish in the standings. That's the easy part. The hard part is the willingness to make capital investments in scouting, talent acquisition, player development, etc. And when you have 29 other teams trying hiring from a very similar pool of qualified candidates, it becomes challenging and often times expensive. Owners then have to make a choice. "Do I want to find the best candidate for the job? Do I want to invest X amount of millions in a Latin American complex? Do I want to outbid my rival on Free Agent X?" Those choices are everything, and unfortunately we know how Jerry chooses to answer them. 

Have to add the Marlins and now the Rockies to that basket of teams...

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Nobody could complain if the Sox were contracted. Not trying to win would be the accusation that caused a harsh penalty of contraction. But no admonishment to Jerry from the commish office. All quiet. Sad the Sox aren't publicly reprimanded for such ineptitude.

The Twins were threatened with contraction in 2001 in order to get their new stadium.

What they did this past trade deadline might be almost worse than anything Reinsdorf has done.

The Pohlads lost Ishbia...couldn't find another buyer at $1.6 billion with $500 million of attached debt, and just deliberately blew their franchise up.

Not sure there's any recovery from that.

 

And that about the only real current hope for the Sox...for the time being the AL Central is their greatest strength but other teams like CLE DET and KC have simply been more efficient or "luckier" like KC with Witt, Jr.

That and Braden Montgomery being a highly likeable All-Star (auto correct tried to change his name to "Broken" lol).

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

You forgot the choke job at the end of the 2012 season.

But at least they were competitive...everyone knew the Tigers were better on paper, and that team was relying on way too many rookies.

2010 was a lot of fun in the middle of that summer...

Same with 2003 and 1990.

You remember the years and those teams decades later, like the SouthSide Hitmen or 1983's Jerry Dybzinski/Tito Landrum.  1959 GoGo Sox or 1983's Winnin' Ugly.

Those teams had genuine/authentic identities and later specially reserved places in our memories...all set to a James Earl Jones monologue.

We recenot fans only got Covid Year, TLR, 2021 and finally the Field of Dreams game after waiting patiently for half a decade.

Edited September 26 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Nobody could complain if the Sox were contracted. Not trying to win would be the accusation that caused a harsh penalty of contraction. But no admonishment to Jerry from the commish office. All quiet. Sad the Sox aren't publicly reprimanded for such ineptitude.

You have said this a lot and I wish you would stop.  It’s incredibly insulting to the fanbase and it’s one of your worst, least thought out theories.  And that is saying a lot 

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, greg775 said:

Nobody could complain if the Sox were contracted. Not trying to win would be the accusation that caused a harsh penalty of contraction. But no admonishment to Jerry from the commish office. All quiet. Sad the Sox aren't publicly reprimanded for such ineptitude.

Especially not you...

[caulfield12]

It's pretty preposterous to surrender the Chicago market without any viable alternatives.

Plus Ishbia's pretty well ensconced on terclast of his mansion/career in Chicagoland as well.

Baseball makes a lot more money off expanding to 32 teams 

The only one in?favor of Sox leaving is Ricketts and 95% of Cubs' fans.

Edited September 27 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

6 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

At the time, 2019 or so, they had some quality hitters.  Couldn’t really stay healthy but maybe there is a world where they take their health more seriously in a serious organization.

But you are right about NL players.  I was one of the idiots who thought Dunn would be a good compliment to the rest of the hitters the Sox had.  Mea culpa.  Who else has there been?  Grandal?  Rios was a bum but he came from Toronto.  The third baseman that played for the Reds (can’t think of his name.)

I trace it back to Jake Peavy who they traded for.  Sometimes history works better than a spread sheet.

[tray]

22 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

It's pretty preposterous to surrender the Chicago market without any viable alternatives.

Plus Ishbia's pretty well ensconced on terclast of his mansion/career in Chicagoland as well.

Baseball makes a lot more money off expanding to 32 teams 

The only one in?favor of Sox leaving is Ricketts and 95% of Cubs' fans.

Michael Reinsdorf has said recently that the Sox would be worth more out of town. (I don't have a link but I could probably find it). 

Ishbia might agree. Let the value tank first. Then he will know what to do. That's his business.

[kitekrazy]

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Playing competitive games is all you can ask for as a fan. It's something we've been denied most of the last 20 years. It's hard to care too much about Colson's accomplishments or Garrett's last year in the face of so many losses. In a way it robs both fans and players of the bond that should be created over time.

That is only if it is a habitual losing team.  I doubt fans think that way in NY, LA.  Fans have higher standards.  So what is ours? Not lose 100 games then maybe 500.   

[kitekrazy]

5 minutes ago, tray said:

Michael Reinsdorf has said recently that the Sox would be worth more out of town. (I don't have a link but I could probably find it). 

Ishbia might agree. Let the value tank first. Then he will know what to do. That's his business.

LOL just LOL! The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[caulfield12]

Being bad means blowing an 8-1 lead to the Nationals...

Being equally bad means committing four errors and giving the game right back.

Edited September 27 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

56 minutes ago, tray said:

Michael Reinsdorf has said recently that the Sox would be worth more out of town. (I don't have a link but I could probably find it). 

Ishbia might agree. Let the value tank first. Then he will know what to do. That's his business.

You do realize a part of a sales agreement is a price, right?

[greg775]

If not contraction, if it's too harsh, I wish the commish would at least admonish the teams that consistently lose 100 games. Unacceptable. That means our team really is on another level, like just a tad about minor league baseball.

[tray]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You do realize a part of a sales agreement is a price, right?

My God. Get an education and a job instead of spending endless hours trying to prove something as an internet troll.

 

[Grindersrule]

8 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

You have said this a lot and I wish you would stop.  It’s incredibly insulting to the fanbase and it’s one of your worst, least thought out theories.  And that is saying a lot 

I hardly post here, only lurk but....

Please Stop with this line of trolling

[Grindersrule]

That was really unclear. LOL

I was trying to respond to Greg with the previous reply.

The quote from Kyle was a response to Greg which I was in agreement with.

[nrockway]

10 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Playing competitive games is all you can ask for as a fan. It's something we've been denied most of the last 20 years. It's hard to care too much about Colson's accomplishments or Garrett's last year in the face of so many losses. In a way it robs both fans and players of the bond that should be created over time.

“Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say ‘Wow, we got a shot. We’re in it!’ But there’s always the carrot left” - Jerry Reinsdorf

I think you can ask for much more as a fan. Losing begets winning, this is just how it works in sports. If the appropriate processes are in place, that is. Nobody seems to care about "the process" besides 76ers fans. Are the neo processes in place any good? I haven't heard a convincing argument that they are not. I could be convinced, I'm tellin ya. Arturas Karnisovas convinced me that the processes he put in place were worse than those of GarPax. I'm not sure the same is true of the current regime. I was hyped on Poles but he seems to be a total disaster...jury is still out but I'm skeptical to say the least.

Really seems like JR is checked out of both teams which is good for the Sox and bad for the Bulls in my mind.

Edited September 27 by nrockway

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 hours ago, nrockway said:

“Finish in second place every single year because your fans will say ‘Wow, we got a shot. We’re in it!’ But there’s always the carrot left” - Jerry Reinsdorf

I think you can ask for much more as a fan. Losing begets winning, this is just how it works in sports. If the appropriate processes are in place, that is. Nobody seems to care about "the process" besides 76ers fans. Are the neo processes in place any good? I haven't heard a convincing argument that they are not. I could be convinced, I'm tellin ya. Arturas Karnisovas convinced me that the processes he put in place were worse than those of GarPax. I'm not sure the same is true of the current regime. I was hyped on Poles but he seems to be a total disaster...jury is still out but I'm skeptical to say the least.

Really seems like JR is checked out of both teams which is good for the Sox and bad for the Bulls in my mind.

Teams trying to come in second place will inherently come in first with some frequency.

A team who doesnt even care about producing an MLB product will not come in first ever.

This is entertainment. Some fans may have unreasonable expectations but it doesn't take away from the fact that competitive teams play way more entertaining games, which is the name of the game. Fans that are bitching about not winning the world series every year are still engaged and watching games all year..theyre expectations dont make them disinterested. Thats what losing does and having no meaningful games throughout the entire year. 

I always love how youre so critical of Arturas and other GMs in the city while you stan for Getz. Arturas failed trying to actually win. Investing in the team but with the wrong guys. Thats far better than not even trying which is what the Sox are doing today.

Edited September 27 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[Kyyle23]

I cannot figure out for the life of me why JR checking out is good for the Sox.  They are about to run a sub 50M payroll.  Getz has already said they aren’t gonna be doing much in free agency.  Trades aren’t gonna be bringing in stars.  

[caulfield12]

It all comes down to getting a star with that upcoming 1-1, 1-2, 1-3 draft pick.

And/or Braden becoming a consistent 25-30 homer 100 rbi force in the middle of the order.