LUIS ROBERT TRADED

[GreenSox]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is way too simplistic of an assessment.  First & foremost, the infrastructure of the org was complete garbage.  Look at the initial wave of trades Getz made and how bad they were.  Most of them were small stakes but failed.  He did make the Cease trade and that one looks very uninspiring at the moment.  Holding off on trading a guy who just had an insane year to allow yourself more time to make improvements in pro scouting & R&D and hopefully improve the likelihood of a good return isn’t necessarily a crazy proposition.  We also have no idea what other teams were offering back then.  This idea you can just force a trade is absurd, the market has to be there and that’s not always the case when trading a premium asset whose value is tied heavily to team control.  No doubt he should have traded him using hindsight, but that’s a really bad way to evaluate a decision making process.

Maybe so, isn’t this on along the same lines as those trades? Aren’t most/all Getz trades (except Crochet) kind of similar?  Those tampa trades, low stakes as there were, stand out to me as Getz at peak naivete, just accepting soon-to-be org guys. 
I still get the sense that he evaluates a lot of our return based on what the other GMs tell him.  Listen to him go on about how the Mets hated losing Acuna.  Getz seems awfully trusting of these GMs who are trying to rip him off. 

Edited 2 hours ago by GreenSox

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Do we still even know if Jerry would have approved including cash in a Robert trade to increase the return?  Has he done this before?

And no, I’m not including the Eloy trade in which cash was sent to the Orioles.  That was still a cash dump trade in which the Sox still lowered their payroll for the season without getting anything in return (a reliever that retired).

Rosenthal said we were willing to.  It’s possible that changed after adding Murakami.  It’s also likely in this particular case that a rich club like the Mets weren’t willing to  offer much of anything for $10M of payroll savings.

[WhiteSox2023]

27 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Maybe so, isn’t this on along the same lines as those trades? Aren’t most/all Getz trades (except Crochet) kind of similar?  Those tampa trades, low stakes as there were, stand out to me as Getz at peak naivete, just accepting org guys. 
I still get the sense that he evaluates a lot of our return based on what the other GMs tell him.  Listen to him go on about how the Mets hated losing Acuna.  Getz seems awfully trusting of these GMs who are trying to rip him off. 

Seems like Getz just takes what he can get among a team’s former top prospects that have since lost their shine.  Vargas, Mead, and now Acuna all fit that description and were all right around 24 when acquired.  It’s almost like he pulls the prospect listings for a team from two years prior and sees who has fallen and can be obtained now.  I realize it likely isn’t that simple but it sure seems like it.

I also thought it was funny when Getz said that about the Mets not wanting to give up Acuna in that video.  He seemed like the perfect guy for the Mets to give up for Robert.  Acuna has struggled hitting in the majors thus far, is out of options, and the Mets are loaded with infielders.

Edited 2 hours ago by WhiteSox2023

[Chick Mercedes]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

I will even go out on a limb here.  If the Sox had a choice between the Japanese player and getting nothing for Robert, or no Murakami, but picking up cash to get a major return for Robert, with where the franchise is in 2026 and 2027, I take the later every time.  We are still no where near our window, and these deals in isolation don't help us get there.

Lets just hope Getz told the truth about spending the money. Then with the prospects, and whatever else they buy, there’s a good chance they can come-out ahead once Robert grabs his hammy again. But that’s hard to earmark.

[Chicago White Sox]

7 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Maybe so, isn’t this on along the same lines as those trades? Aren’t most/all Getz trades (except Crochet) kind of similar?  Those tampa trades, low stakes as there were, stand out to me as Getz at peak naivete, just accepting soon-to-be org guys. 
I still get the sense that he evaluates a lot of our return based on what the other GMs tell him.  Listen to him go on about how the Mets hated losing Acuna.  Getz seems awfully trusting of these GMs who are trying to rip him off. 

I don’t know, it’s tough to take anything a GM says at face value.  It’s very possible the Sox really like Acuna, but at the same time only made this trade because Jerry made them dump salary.  Lying to the media is a key part of a GM’s job.

I don’t agree that Getz trading for 40 man roster depth is a bad thing when the cost is practically nothing.  Tristin Peters may end being useless, but he cost us nothing and probably gives us a replacement level floor if needed.  We saw under Hahn the dangers of having zero depth at the AAA level.  As long as the costs are reasonable and they aren’t blocking someone, these are smart moves to make.

[Y2Jimmy0]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is way too simplistic of an assessment.  First & foremost, the infrastructure of the org was complete garbage.  Look at the initial wave of trades Getz made and how bad they were.  Most of them were small stakes but failed.  He did make the Cease trade and that one looks very uninspiring at the moment.  Holding off on trading a guy who just had an insane year to allow yourself more time to make improvements in pro scouting & R&D and hopefully improve the likelihood of a good return isn’t necessarily a crazy proposition.  We also have no idea what other teams were offering back then.  This idea you can just force a trade is absurd, the market has to be there and that’s not always the case when trading a premium asset whose value is tied heavily to team control.  No doubt he should have traded him using hindsight, but that’s a really bad way to evaluate a decision making process.

I’ve often argued that there was no way they should’ve traded Robert that offseason. Coming off a career year with 4 years of control, there’s no way they would’ve gotten a return good enough to actually move him. 

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is entirely untrue.  The Sox went overslot on their 2nd and 4th round picks by a combined $1.1M and had to go multiple spots under slot and were limited how big of a bonus the could pay in rounds 11 & later (mostly capped at $150k).  As such, they only had six total picks with a bonus above Pauley’s and the 5th & 6th round picks within range of Pauley’s payout were generally considered better prospects.  None of that means they didn’t like Pauley at the time of the draft.

100%. Truman Pauley was a 6th round value. Sox probably just chose a couple other guys instead. 

[46DidIt]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s a fucking embarrassment.  I still think they add a bit more, but with Robert gone being close to dead last is inevitable.  Hopefully Jerry’s loser kids use that money on the Bulls one day and sneak into the luxury tax (not happening obviously).

If close to dead last is inevitable with Robert gone, then it was inevitable with Robert here. Derek Hill nearly put up an equal WAR last year in 149 PA as Robert did in each of his last two seasons. Acuńa in 224 career PA has nearly Robert's WAR from twice the PA last year. Had Baldwin played CF last year instead of Robert I doubt the difference would have been more than a game, and I'm not even sure which direction that one win would go

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Seems like Getz just takes what he can get among a team’s former top prospects that have since lost their shine.  Vargas, Mead, and now Acuna all fit that description and were all right around 24 when acquired.  It’s almost like he pulls the prospect listings for a team from two years prior and sees who has fallen and can be obtained now.  I realize it likely isn’t that simple but it sure seems like it.

I actually like the strategy if we’re talking about post hype guys without tons of major league runway.  I ripped the Fedde / Kopech trade at the time, but Vargas alone could make that trade a win if he can take another step next year (and that’s ignoring anything from Perez who’s coming off a really strong season).  I also like the idea of taking a shot on Mead given his past minor league success, although a little less enamored at the moment given our current roster construction.  That being said, Mead came with other pieces and was acquired for a pure rental.

I will admit Acuna is a tougher sell for me as his lack of success in AAA last year is hard to ignore.  There is still a non zero chance he figures something out as he is still relatively young and there are some good tools there, but I have very little conviction that will happen.  Given our meager payroll, extremely unproven OF, and potential upside of Robert, I would have held out for more if I could have but I also get this is Jerry making us dump salary and probably the best we could do.

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

If close to dead last is inevitable with Robert gone, then it was inevitable with Robert here. Derek Hill nearly put up an equal WAR last year in 149 PA as Robert did in each of his last two seasons. Acuńa in 224 career PA has nearly Robert's WAR from twice the PA last year. Had Baldwin played CF last year instead of Robert I doubt the difference would have been more than a game, and I'm not even sure which direction that one win would go

The best thing about the Robert trade was at least getting another potential CF to replace him.  I guess Pereira could have played CF but he is an unknown as well.  But at least we don’t have to watch Hill play the majority of CF in 2026.

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I actually like the strategy if we’re talking about post hype guys without tons of major league runway.  I ripped the Fedde / Kopech trade at the time, but Vargas alone could make that trade a win if he can take another step next year (and that’s ignoring anything from Perez who’s coming off a really strong season).  I also like the idea of taking a shot on Mead given his past minor league success, although a little less enamored at the moment given our current roster construction.  That being said, Mead came with other pieces and was acquired for a pure rental.

I will admit Acuna is a tougher sell for me as his lack of success in AAA last year is hard to ignore.  There is still a non zero chance he figures something out as he is still relatively young and there are some good tools there, but I have very little conviction that will happen.  Given our meager payroll, extremely unproven OF, and potential upside of Robert, I would have held out for more if I could have but I also get this is Jerry making us dump salary and probably the best we could do.

I’m sure you have taken a look at the remaining free agent outfielders.  It’s pretty ugly.  They are mostly too old or bad.  Would you even sign any of them?

At this point, it may be more productive to give the majority of outfield at bats to these guys.

Baldwin

Pereira

Acuna

Kelenic

Edited 1 hour ago by WhiteSox2023

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

If close to dead last is inevitable with Robert gone, then it was inevitable with Robert here. Derek Hill nearly put up an equal WAR last year in 149 PA as Robert did in each of his last two seasons. Acuńa in 224 career PA has nearly Robert's WAR from twice the PA last year. Had Baldwin played CF last year instead of Robert I doubt the difference would have been more than a game, and I'm not even sure which direction that one win would go

I was referring to dead last in payroll.  I expect them to spend some of the $20M in savings, but I’d be surprised if Jerry didn’t pocket some of it at minimum.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The best thing about the Robert trade was at least getting another potential CF to replace him.  I guess Pereira could have played CF but he is an unknown as well.  But at least we don’t have to watch Hill play the majority of CF in 2026.

I’m sure you have taken a look at the remaining free agent outfielders.  Would you even sign any of them?

At this point, it may be more productive to give the majority of outfield at bats to these guys.

Baldwin

Pereira

Acuna

Kelenic

I need to go through the free agent list.  I think they will add a veteran OF in some capacity, whether that is as a NRI or a guaranteed contract.  There is some value in hedging with a vet, especially at one of the corner OF spots.  I’d certainly go into the season with a CF competition between Baldwin, Pereira, & Acuna.  Going out and signing Bader to a multi-year deal after trading for Acuna would be insanity.

[WhiteSox2023]

2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I need to go through the free agent list.  I think they will add a veteran OF in some capacity, whether that is as a NRI or a guaranteed contract.  There is some value in hedging with a vet, especially at one of the corner OF spots.  I’d certainly go into the season with a CF competition between Baldwin, Pereira, & Acuna.  Going out and signing Bader to a multi-year deal after trading for Acuna would be insanity.

Agreed on Bader.  Not exactly the model of consistency and you would be signing him after a big year.  Also on the wrong side of 30.  He’s turning 32 in June.

MLB.com keeps updating this article of free agent transactions:

https://www.mlb.com/amp/news/mlb-free-agents-2025-2026.html

[Chicago White Sox]

The group of post hype OF prospects is something:

• Kelenic (#4 overall in Y21)
• Acuna (#56 overall in Y23)
• Pereira (#69 overall in Y23)

 

[WhiteSox2023]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The group of post hype OF prospects is something:

• Kelenic (#4 overall in Y21)
• Acuna (#56 overall in Y23)
• Pereira (#69 overall in Y23)

 

• Vargas (#37 overall in Y23)
• Mead (#55 overall in Y24)

[chitownsportsfan]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The group of post hype OF prospects is something:

• Kelenic (#4 overall in Y21)
• Acuna (#56 overall in Y23)
• Pereira (#69 overall in Y23)

 

We went from the dumpster in Tucson to the one in Venice Beach.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The best thing about the Robert trade was at least getting another potential CF to replace him.  I guess Pereira could have played CF but he is an unknown as well.  But at least we don’t have to watch Hill play the majority of CF in 2026.

I’m sure you have taken a look at the remaining free agent outfielders.  It’s pretty ugly.  They are mostly too old or bad.  Would you even sign any of them?

At this point, it may be more productive to give the majority of outfield at bats to these guys.

Baldwin

Pereira

Acuna

Kelenic

You throwing kelenic out there is pretty funny. Won't someone just give him a chance?!?!?!

[46DidIt]

11 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The group of post hype OF prospects is something:

• Kelenic (#4 overall in Y21)
• Acuna (#56 overall in Y23)
• Pereira (#69 overall in Y23)

 

Both Acuña and Pereira were ranked higher in '24 than '23. Seems a little disingenuous to cite '23 rankings while describing them as post hype

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You throwing kelenic out there is pretty funny. Won't someone just give him a chance?!?!?!

I’m not trying to be funny and I’m not disagreeing with you.  But he’s 26 years old and I have no doubt that he will get plenty of chances with a team that pretty much has an entire roster full of unproven outfielders if you consider Benintendi primarily a DH going forward.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Except the sunk cost fallacy implies the alternative is better here, which isn't really true, especially when we're talking about perhaps the worst opening day outfield in MLB history here.

In theory, the alternative is Acuna + another $19M player

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Both Acuña and Pereira were ranked higher in '24 than '23. Seems a little disingenuous to cite '23 rankings while describing them as post hype

Here’s the listing I see:

• Kelenic (#4 overall in Y21)
• Vargas (#37 overall in Y23)
• Mead (#55 overall in Y24)
• Acuna (#66 overall in Y24)
• Pereira (#67 overall in Y24)

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

In theory, the alternative is Acuna + another $19M player

The true fallacy is in thinking Jerry will allow Getz to spend the entirety of the money that was freed up by trading Robert.  🤣

Edited 1 hour ago by WhiteSox2023

[Chicago White Sox]

17 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Both Acuña and Pereira were ranked higher in '24 than '23. Seems a little disingenuous to cite '23 rankings while describing them as post hype

According to who?  Those rankings are per Baseball America and each guy’s peak ranking unless I messed something up.  

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The true fallacy is in thinking Jerry will allow Getz to spend the entirety of the money that was freed up by trading Robert.  🤣

That has nothing to do with the comparison. If we’re comparing apples to apples, the alternative is as I described and that’s a superior option imo. Go sign Giolito.

[46DidIt]

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=pereir000eve

Prospect Rankings

 

Baseball America

Pre-2023	#78
Pre-2024	#67

Edited 1 hour ago by 46DidIt

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

That has nothing to do with the comparison. If we’re comparing apples to apples, the alternative is as I described and that’s a superior option imo. Go sign Giolito.

Yes, if the Sox sign the right starter, Acuna plus said starter could very well be more productive than Robert.  There could also be some money left over from that $19 million.  Do I have faith that they will sign a starter like Giolito?  No, I think they will go cheaper on a starter to spread out the remaining freed up money to a reliever or two and a cheap outfielder.  Three or four lower quality players is always better than one or two better players.  It’s the White Sox way.

Edited 1 hour ago by WhiteSox2023