1 minute ago, ron883 said:

So we traded for a pitcher who is worth -1.0 bWAR. He was worth -0.7bWAR when we traded for him. He was one of the worst pitchers in the league when we traded for him and he continues to be one of the worst. He is 33 years old. He is under contract for $24 million next session. The guy we traded isn't a blue chip prospect, but he's on fire, leads the minors in OPS and appears to have a legit bat.

Minus Sir Anthony's contract, we owe him $14m next season. That is literally 15% of our current payroll. We have a notoriously cheap owner.

But somehow you can't see how that was a bad trade. I'm assuming you're trolling at this point with the senseless positivity.

I'm assuming you're trolling, actually. Senseless? The team's in first place. Their winning pct is better after the TDL than before.

Why do you need me to validate your narrative? The team obviously had a plan on how to change his pitch selection. He needs to execute. All the rest is meaningless. I don't care how much money Jerry Reinsdorf pays these guys. I find it's the guys who scream about how cheap JR is that suddenly scream about JR spending money. Y'all scream when he doesn't spend money, then y'all scream when he takes money on. Pick a lane.

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I'm assuming you're trolling, actually. Senseless? The team's in first place. Their winning pct is better after the TDL than before.

Why do you need me to validate your narrative? The team obviously had a plan on how to change his pitch selection. He needs to execute. All the rest is meaningless. I don't care how much money Jerry Reinsdorf pays these guys. I find it's the guys who scream about how cheap JR is that suddenly scream about JR spending money. Y'all scream when he doesn't spend money, then y'all scream when he takes money on. Pick a lane.

46 minutes ago, ron883 said:

Lane C

An actual star.

See Machado 2019 Harper Z.Wheeler, etc.

Unfortunately, Skubal is it for for FA.

But there's always Sato and two Japanese starters.

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I'm assuming you're trolling, actually. Senseless? The team's in first place. Their winning pct is better after the TDL than before.

Why do you need me to validate your narrative? The team obviously had a plan on how to change his pitch selection. He needs to execute. All the rest is meaningless. I don't care how much money Jerry Reinsdorf pays these guys. I find it's the guys who scream about how cheap JR is that suddenly scream about JR spending money. Y'all scream when he doesn't spend money, then y'all scream when he takes money on. Pick a lane.

You keep doing this but tying the Sox winning percentage to Castillo is ridiculous. He isn’t helping and the team is winning despite his awful performances. You know this as well, yet you keep making this nonsensical argument. Yes, it can still be a bad trade just because the Sox are in first place.

Also, no one wants Jerry to continue paying for old washed-up has-been’s and retreads that are nearing retirement. This has been the Sox way for ages. Lip makes this argument all the time and he’s right. Baseball is a young man’s game. Stop acquiring the James Shields of baseball that are on the steps to retirement.

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by WhiteSox2023

51 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You keep doing this but tying the Sox winning percentage to Castillo is ridiculous. He isn’t helping and the team is winning despite his awful performances. You know this as well, yet you keep making this nonsensical argument. Yes, it can still be a bad trade just because the Sox are in first place.

Also, no one wants Jerry to continue paying for old washed-up has-been’s and retreads that are nearing retirement. This has been the Sox way for ages. Lip makes this argument all the time and he’s right. Baseball is a young man’s game. Stop acquiring the James Shields of baseball that are on the steps to retirement.

Hopefully this Castillo guy can find the lost magic. He's likely to be the guy that opens the playoff series. Can't afford him to get rocked.

8 minutes ago, greg775 said:

Hopefully this Castillo guy can find the lost magic. He's likely to be the guy that opens the playoff series. Can't afford him to get rocked.

Burke as of today

4 hours ago, ron883 said:

"I posted a gif of somebody laughing. Therefore, that invalidates your argument. Tee-hee."

Be better.

2 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You keep doing this but tying the Sox winning percentage to Castillo is ridiculous. He isn’t helping and the team is winning despite his awful performances. You know this as well, yet you keep making this nonsensical argument. Yes, it can still be a bad trade just because the Sox are in first place.

Also, no one wants Jerry to continue paying for old washed-up has-been’s and retreads that are nearing retirement. This has been the Sox way for ages. Lip makes this argument all the time and he’s right. Baseball is a young man’s game. Stop acquiring the James Shields of baseball that are on the steps to retirement.

We don't know if it's a bad trade. Was Miguel Vargas a bad trade? You certainly told us it was, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, and you know what? You were wrong each time you did that. Because they didn't trade for a prospect to plug him in and have him bat .400. They wanted a hitting prospect who they could work with. Same with Castillo. They're working with him on pitch selection, probably a few tweaks to his delivery. They're going to make the post-season. Maybe they get him repurposed by then.

You screaming at the first 5 games is ridiculous. Keep doing it, I don't care. But that's not an accurate reading of the trade.

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

We don't know if it's a bad trade. Was Miguel Vargas a bad trade? You certainly told us it was, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, and you know what? You were wrong each time you did that. Because they didn't trade for a prospect to plug him in and have him bat .400. They wanted a hitting prospect who they could work with. Same with Castillo. They're working with him on pitch selection, probably a few tweaks to his delivery. They're going to make the post-season. Maybe they get him repurposed by then.

You screaming at the first 5 games is ridiculous. Keep doing it, I don't care. But that's not an accurate reading of the trade.

Vargas was just 24-25 and a year removed from Top 100 lists, Castillo on the descent side of his 30’s and paid far more than his production level. 2022-23 were his last objectively strong/solid seasons.

Two totally different trades.

It doesn’t automatically mean that they have the Midas touch all of a sudden.

Especially with pitching.

Edited 13 hours ago13 hr by caulfield12

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Vargas was just 24-25 and a year removed from Top 100 lists, Castillo on the descent side of his 30’s and paid far more than his production level. 2022-23 were his last objectively strong/solid seasons.

Two totally different trades.

It doesn’t automatically mean that they have the Midas touch all of a sudden.

Especially with pitching.

And if they did have the Midas touch with pitching, Castillo may have never been needed in the first place. See Shane Smith, Schultz, Cannon, Sandlin, etc.

53 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

And if they did have the Midas touch with pitching, Castillo may have never been needed in the first place. See Shane Smith, Schultz, Cannon, Sandlin, etc.

Now the argument will be turned around to starters are unimportant.

They can just turn McDougal Hagen Shane and Noah into a super pen....despite not really producing any major league relievers from draft to pen in 2026 except for Pallette.

Hagen Smith will be deemed a "development victory" despite an unsustainable 10 walks in 11 ip with a 1-5 pick.

You can probably add 2026 pick Volchko with his unorthodox delivery.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by caulfield12

9 hours ago, WestEddy said:

"I posted a gif of somebody laughing. Therefore, that invalidates your argument. Tee-hee."

Be better.

You're using the teams record to insinuate that a trade for a pitcher who has been worth a whopping -0.3 WAR in 5 starts wasn't a bad trade. You aren't being serious, so I didn't give a serious response.

Be better.

4 minutes ago, ron883 said:

You're using the teams record to insinuate that a trade for a pitcher who has been worth a whopping -0.3 WAR in 5 starts wasn't a bad trade. You aren't being serious, so I didn't give a serious response.

Be better.

It's completely unserious to judge this trade after 5 starts.

12 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You keep doing this but tying the Sox winning percentage to Castillo is ridiculous. He isn’t helping and the team is winning despite his awful performances. You know this as well, yet you keep making this nonsensical argument. Yes, it can still be a bad trade just because the Sox are in first place.

Also, no one wants Jerry to continue paying for old washed-up has-been’s and retreads that are nearing retirement. This has been the Sox way for ages. Lip makes this argument all the time and he’s right. Baseball is a young man’s game. Stop acquiring the James Shields of baseball that are on the steps to retirement.

You mean like Ken Griffey, Jr. ? 😂

2 hours ago, tray said:

You mean like Ken Griffey, Jr. ? 😂

Band-aid solutions with big name vets on the decline.

KW Specials

Just now, WestEddy said:

It's completely unserious to judge this trade after 5 starts.

We have a whole season worth of data from him. He's been absolute dogshit the entire year. He's also 33 and his stuff is declining.

It's completely unserious to ignore his track record for the entire year.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by ron883

2 minutes ago, ron883 said:

We have a whole season worth of data from him. He's been absolute dogshit the entire year.

It's completely unserious to ignore his track record for the entire year.

I will never understand how they thought he would work out well here

4 minutes ago, ron883 said:

We have a whole season worth of data from him. He's been absolute dogshit the entire year. He's also 33 and his stuff is declining.

It's completely unserious to ignore his track record for the entire year.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/luis-castillo/15689/stats/pitching

You don't sink all the way to 0.4 from previous heights for no reason (and lose your rotation spot with that $108 million contract.)

SEA was the #1 run suppressing environment on the planet for at least three years running.

And he will be 34 at the beginning of next season...yet seems to possess the very opposite of Chris Sale's fountain of youth.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by caulfield12

10 minutes ago, ron883 said:

We have a whole season worth of data from him. He's been absolute dogshit the entire year. He's also 33 and his stuff is declining.

It's completely unserious to ignore his track record for the entire year.

Who's ignoring his track record? Just last season he was fine. Seems like you're doing the heavy lifting on the ignoring.

They probably saw him get away from what brings him success. The Reds' game was proof of concept. Now they're just working to get him back there consistently. Seems like you need something to focus your anger on, and Castillo is that. For all the people who told us that the Vargas trade sucked, over and over and over and over and over, weird how they don't come back and tell us how wrong they were, over and over and over and over and over. I'd imagine that when Castillo's dominating through the 6th inning of World Series game 2, you'll begrudgingly admit once that the trade wasn't as bad as you thought, then silence.

11 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Who's ignoring his track record? Just last season he was fine. Seems like you're doing the heavy lifting on the ignoring.

They probably saw him get away from what brings him success. The Reds' game was proof of concept. Now they're just working to get him back there consistently. Seems like you need something to focus your anger on, and Castillo is that. For all the people who told us that the Vargas trade sucked, over and over and over and over and over, weird how they don't come back and tell us how wrong they were, over and over and over and over and over. I'd imagine that when Castillo's dominating through the 6th inning of World Series game 2, you'll begrudgingly admit once that the trade wasn't as bad as you thought, then silence.

The Vargas trade did stink for 1.5 seasons. It took him that time to improve. But you are once again making another poor comparison. Castillo does not have the same time as Vargas did to improve as he’s only here for one more season. Castillo is also almost ten years older than Vargas. Players don’t get better nearing their mid 30’s. Thats retirement time. You seem to be thinking like KW and Hahn with Castillo — that an aging veteran starter is going to bring the magic back. It looks like the Shields trade all over again.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by WhiteSox2023

20 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Who's ignoring his track record? Just last season he was fine. Seems like you're doing the heavy lifting on the ignoring.

They probably saw him get away from what brings him success. The Reds' game was proof of concept. Now they're just working to get him back there consistently. Seems like you need something to focus your anger on, and Castillo is that. For all the people who told us that the Vargas trade sucked, over and over and over and over and over, weird how they don't come back and tell us how wrong they were, over and over and over and over and over. I'd imagine that when Castillo's dominating through the 6th inning of World Series game 2, you'll begrudgingly admit once that the trade wasn't as bad as you thought, then silence.

With all due respect, all I hear is excuses for how bad Castillo has been. First, he was brought in to provide innings…huge fail. He has the feel of a guy who’s going to get DFA in June of next year. The stuff isn’t good and the command stinks. It’s unbelievable how much he reminds me of James Shields.

32 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Vargas trade did stink for 1.5 seasons. It took him that time to improve. But you are once again making another poor comparison. Castillo does not have the same time as Vargas did to improve and Castillo is a full ten years older. Players don’t get better nearing their mid 30’s. Thats retirement time.

It's not a poor comparison. The Vargas trade wasn't "bad", then it became "good" when Vargas started hitting. We all knew what the point of that trade was. Post-hype player, work with him to regain his prospect. To say Vargas stunk during 2025 is ludicrous. He put up 1.9 bWAR in his first full MLB season. That's an average major league player.

But you're doing just what I'm talking about, pretending a trade was bad because what everybody planned on happened. Is there a contest I don't know about where people who are the fastest to declare a trade bad win something? Because I can't think of another reason why people scream about Getz messing up, not knowing talent, and all that garbage, then dig in and declare they were right all along, even as the object of their wrath is hitting home runs in the All Star game.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by WestEddy

I happened to watch a recap of the ALCS and World Series last year. Dominguez was in for 2 blow ups. Shoulda known that he sucked then, but I somehow forgot about them even though I watched pretty much every game during the ALCS and WS.

43 minutes ago, fathom said:

With all due respect, all I hear is excuses for how bad Castillo has been. First, he was brought in to provide innings…huge fail. He has the feel of a guy who’s going to get DFA in June of next year. The stuff isn’t good and the command stinks. It’s unbelievable how much he reminds me of James Shields.

And James Shields pulled it back to become a serviceable innings-eater.

"The dog ate my homework" is an excuse. "He stopped throwing his change-up and keeps changing arm angles" is a reason.

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

And James Shields pulled it back to become a serviceable innings-eater.

"The dog ate my homework" is an excuse. "He stopped throwing his change-up and keeps changing arm angles" is a reason.

Ladies and gentlemen, this has to be the first defense of the Shields trade in history with the benefit of hindsight. Good lord…