20 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's not a poor comparison. The Vargas trade wasn't "bad", then it became "good" when Vargas started hitting. We all knew what the point of that trade was. Post-hype player, work with him to regain his prospect. To say Vargas stunk during 2025 is ludicrous. He put up 1.9 bWAR in his first full MLB season. That's an average major league player.

But you're doing just what I'm talking about, pretending a trade was bad because what everybody planned on happened. Is there a contest I don't know about where people who are the fastest to declare a trade bad win something? Because I can't think of another reason why people scream about Getz messing up, not knowing talent, then all that garbage, then dig in and declare they were right all along, even as the object of their wrath is hitting home runs in the All Star game.

It is an awful comparison. The Sox acquired Vargas because they weren’t vying for a playoff spot, Vargas had multiple years of control remaining, and they had time to try to fix him.

Castillo was acquired to improve the rotation right now in a playoff run, as well as improve it for next season, because he’s gone after next season. He doesn’t have much time to figure it out. And thus far, he has been awful through 5 starts with 1 good start. There is no guarantee that the Sox are in this same position next season, so Castillo’s starts right now are even more vital to the team since next year is not guaranteed.

It isn’t a good comparison of trades at all.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/shielja02.shtml

Total Sox bWAR -0.3

Well Tatis Jr. and Sosa were cheaters anyway so those two trades don't count and Chicago baseball history can just be rewound/rewritten

And ofc Hahn's kid Jacob (Rice Univ) is now working as an intern in analytics (baseball ops analyst) for the Cubs of all teams. Looks like it turned into a permanent gig.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by caulfield12

Also looks like the Sox need to send just a few more scouts to Curacao.

Jurdrick Profar ... not so good.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by caulfield12

30 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has to be the first defense of the Shields trade in history with the benefit of hindsight. Good lord…

I guess it depends on your definition of 'serviceable' doesn't it? 🙂

Shields 5.31 ERA ranks second only to Jaime Navarro for highest in team history among pitchers allowed to throw at least 400 innings for the club."

From the Sun-Times postgame story Sunday:

No panic for Castillo

"General manager Chris Getz hasn’t exactly gotten what he ordered with trade-deadline prize Luis Castillo, who has posted a 6.45 ERA in five starts for the Sox.

After his latest clunker in Minneapolis on Friday, said his struggles have come when he’s “trying to be perfect with every pitch.”

“Pitching for this team gives me a lot of confidence because I know that I’m on a good team,” Castillo said via interpreter Billy Russo. “Those guys have my back and every time I go there, they’re going to try to perform and do their best with every at-bat.

“I’ve been feeling pretty comfortable here. We’ve created a good relationship with my teammates and the manager and of course the pitching coach. We’re in a good spot and we’re always in communication, trying to get better and improve.”

51 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this has to be the first defense of the Shields trade in history with the benefit of hindsight. Good lord…

Are you saying he didn't throw 204 innings in 2018? When you don't have an argument, you make up things to mock.

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Are you saying he didn't throw 204 innings in 2018? When you don't have an argument, you make up things to mock.

Shields wasn’t acquired to have a mediocre season in the third year of the trade. But then again, you already knew this. It’s actually hard to tell that you aren’t @ron883-rolling me right now with this troll-job, because it is laughable at best.

Edited 27 minutes ago27 min by WhiteSox2023

50 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

The Sox acquired Vargas because they weren’t vying for a playoff spot, Vargas had multiple years of control remaining, and they had time to try to fix him.

Have you gone back and edited the thousands of posts that screamed that Vargas sucked and Getz made a horrible trade to now include this newfound wisdom? Because you never mentioned this in your thousands of posts. I seem to remember your assertion being that Vargas was "bad", would never be "good", and that Getz made a horrible trade because Reinsdorf's cheap. Maybe you can get to this place a little faster for Castillo.

They traded for a guy who as recently as last year had good success. They probably see a few changes that may take a series of starts to implement and get working consistently. The Sox pretty much have a playoff spot sewn up with other pitchers who have been as bad as Castillo's 4 of 5 starts. So he has about another 5 starts to right the ship.

Frankly, I don't get the notion that a bunch of guys here saw a pitcher who sucked all year, and are now surprised that he's struggling to implement his changes.

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Shields wasn’t acquired to have a mediocre season in the third year of the trade. But then again, you already knew this. It’s actually hard to tell that you aren’t @ron883-rolling me right now with this troll-job, because it is laughable at best.

Do you need somebody to congratulate you on noticing that the Shields trade was a "bad" trade"? Attaboy!! I haven't seen somebody take a victory lap in a while over the Shields trade, but sometimes we all need a validating jog.

17 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Have you gone back and edited the thousands of posts that screamed that Vargas sucked and Getz made a horrible trade to now include this newfound wisdom? Because you never mentioned this in your thousands of posts. I seem to remember your assertion being that Vargas was "bad", would never be "good", and that Getz made a horrible trade because Reinsdorf's cheap. Maybe you can get to this place a little faster for Castillo.

They traded for a guy who as recently as last year had good success. They probably see a few changes that may take a series of starts to implement and get working consistently. The Sox pretty much have a playoff spot sewn up with other pitchers who have been as bad as Castillo's 4 of 5 starts. So he has about another 5 starts to right the ship.

Frankly, I don't get the notion that a bunch of guys here saw a pitcher who sucked all year, and are now surprised that he's struggling to implement his changes.

Vargas was bad when he was first acquired, but he was at least still young with several years of control. I’m still not sure what this has to do with Castillo being Shields v2.0. Shields and Castillo were both old and bad when acquired. There’s a difference. The Vargas trade and the trades for Shields and Castillo are not in anyway similar.

Regarding your last paragraph, your comments make the trade and Getz even worse if he acquired a starting pitcher that he didn’t think could help the team for the playoff stretch.

Edited 2 minutes ago2 min by WhiteSox2023

15 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Do you need somebody to congratulate you on noticing that the Shields trade was a "bad" trade"? Attaboy!! I haven't seen somebody take a victory lap in a while over the Shields trade, but sometimes we all need a validating jog.

Yep, and here’s where you start to veer off course as usual because even you are realizing that your argument is weak. I’m not taking a victory lap over the Shields trade. Meanwhile, you are arguing that it wasn’t that bad because he ate some innings in the final season of his career before being forced into retirement. 🤣

Edited just now1 min by WhiteSox2023