12 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

There's a certain irony to using "don't trust Coors production" against Doyle...and then citing Adell's stats immediately after they've been inflated by playing there.

Adell went 6-14 at Coors and is otherwise 10-48 (.208 average) as a Guardian.

Go back a tick further and he was hitting .167 before getting to play another one of the worst teams in baseball where he got 3 hits against a 7 ERA LHP in SF.

That one game + a Coors series accounts for 9 of his 16 hits (and 2 of his 4 HR) for Cleveland. He's 7-42 since the deadline when not playing the NL's bottom 2 clubs.

He doesn't play CF. He would be worse than Braden on defense (and prior so his Coors trip, offense too). He's a worse platoon corner bat than Grichuk.

I would have been content to keep Adams and Pereira personally, but of all the reasons to dislike the Doyle trade, not getting Adell instead is not one that makes sense to me.

It's funny how the guys who always scream that "Jerry Reinsdorf loves his rebuilds!! Haw-haw-haw" wanted Getz to trade away every prospect for iffy rentals, get knocked out in the first round, then start rebuilding again this off-season.

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's funny how the guys who always scream that "Jerry Reinsdorf loves his rebuilds!! Haw-haw-haw" wanted Getz to trade away every prospect for iffy rentals, get knocked out in the first round, then start rebuilding again this off-season.

No one said this

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

It's funny how the guys who always scream that "Jerry Reinsdorf loves his rebuilds!! Haw-haw-haw" wanted Getz to trade away every prospect for iffy rentals, get knocked out in the first round, then start rebuilding again this off-season.

Why didn't the White Sox trade for each guy who has a hot streak post deadline, but only while that hot streak is happening? Are they stupid?

I said at the time that I don't think these deals really help the team overall much. Maybe raise the floor, not so much the ceiling. Though, I may have been in denial and thought that was best case scenario.

5 minutes ago, almagest said:

Pereira is hurt again - not his fault necessarily (hit on the hand), but still. I'm not going to bemoan the loss of a guy who can't stay healthy and has only been able to play in 38 of 130 games.

Wow, I guess I missed him landing on the IL again. Really unfortunate, kid just can't catch a break this season.

1 minute ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Wow, I guess I missed him landing on the IL again. Really unfortunate, kid just can't catch a break this season.

Yeah this one and when he hit his head trying to catch that one ball is unlucky for sure

14 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

You mean fail and have the worst record in baseball?

No, call up Adams and use him in the rotation. Instead, we have a past his prime and expensive “ace” that has pitched one good start out of four.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by WhiteSox2023

11 minutes ago, almagest said:

Why didn't the White Sox trade for each guy who has a hot streak post deadline, but only while that hot streak is happening? Are they stupid?

Of the four players Getz acquired, one got injured in 3 games and the other three players have performed worse with the Sox than their previous team. Bad luck or bad targets?

1 minute ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Of the four players Getz acquired, one got injured in 3 games and the other three players have performed worse with the Sox than their previous team. Bad luck or bad targets?

You completely missed the point about small sample sizes

19 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

No one said this

8 minutes ago, almagest said:

You completely missed the point about small sample sizes

Isn’t that part of the formula with the deadline though? Bringing in guys you have to fix while trying to win is a very risky strategy.

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn’t that part of the formula with the deadline though? Bringing in guys you have to fix while trying to win is a very risky strategy.

Yeah, Doyle and Castillo were definitely odd because of how bad they had been, and then brining them in and hoping to fix them in a pennant race. Honestly, it's what told me they weren't going for it this year more than the bare minimum.

3 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn’t that part of the formula with the deadline though? Bringing in guys you have to fix while trying to win is a very risky strategy.

Yes, it is. Castillo has not been good all season and Doyle has been an awful hitter for 2 straight seasons at a hitter’s haven. Where are these small sample sizes again? Getz targeted two players on the downswing, rather than what most teams do — target players in the middle of good seasons.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by WhiteSox2023

During Braves game last night, announcers said Braves wanted Mahle because they saw improvements in his fastball the last few starts before the deadline, and they implied the Rangers catchers stink.

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

During Braves game last night, announcers said Braves wanted Mahle because they saw improvements in his fastball the last few starts before the deadline, and they implied the Rangers catchers stink.

You mean Giants? He barely pitched when he was in Texas and his numbers when he did are actually good there.

I think the issue is that general managers don't want to trade real prospects anymore without getting back premium, controllable talent. You have the lockout situation and the uncertainty of the new CBA that play a part as well.

We would all be up in arms if somebody like Bonemer was sent out for Deitmers.

The other thing is the third wild card: although bring more teams into the fold, it definitely makes it a sellers' market. If there were two wild cards, you may have teams like the Twins, Mariners, Rangers, Reds, and Pirates more willing to sell. However, It's hard to trade your average players for average prospects if you feel there is a chance.

So what you have is a bunch of "maybe he will better for you trades".

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

You mean Giants? He barely pitched when he was in Texas and his numbers when he did are actually good there.

Ha yes

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Isn’t that part of the formula with the deadline though? Bringing in guys you have to fix while trying to win is a very risky strategy.

Someone here said buying at the deadline is a sucker's bet and I think that's true. There's too much variance in ~60 games to bet on rentals unless they're absolute studs like Skubal. And even then if he has a couple bad starts it looks like a bad move.

I can see the vision behind buying "low" at the deadline on guys with control and having a full offseason with them. It's what they did with Vargas. Not that Doyle is gonna turn into him all of a sudden, but I do want to see what they can do with him after working with him for that long.

Castillo I'm less enthused about. I think he is what he is at this point. I think with him they had some financial flexibility, wanted to get rid of Dominguez, and didn't value Boston Smith that highly internally. Maybe he dead cat bounces and they get a couple more serviceable starts out of him - I'd bet on that being more likely than Mason Adams doing the same.

I also think it's a clear sign that the Sox want to be cautious to not over index on this year being an all in opportunity. Trading guys they felt had a good shot to be integral pieces in the future would be a mistake to them, and I can't blame them for that approach. The minor league system needs a talent infusion to continue to be competitive, and the guys they'd have to trade to acquire true impact talent - likely one or more of Bonemer, Carlson, Hagen Smith, Noah Schultz or Braden Montgomery - seems too expensive for a team in their position. They also don't have the quality of mid-ranked farm talent (besides Smith and Adams) that teams wanted at this deadline.

2 minutes ago, almagest said:

Someone here said buying at the deadline is a sucker's bet and I think that's true. There's too much variance in ~60 games to bet on rentals unless they're absolute studs like Skubal. And even then if he has a couple bad starts it looks like a bad move.

I can see the vision behind buying "low" at the deadline on guys with control and having a full offseason with them. It's what they did with Vargas. Not that Doyle is gonna turn into him all of a sudden, but I do want to see what they can do with him after working with him for that long.

Castillo I'm less enthused about. I think he is what he is at this point. I think with him they had some financial flexibility, wanted to get rid of Dominguez, and didn't value Boston Smith that highly internally. Maybe he dead cat bounces and they get a couple more serviceable starts out of him - I'd bet on that being more likely than Mason Adams doing the same.

I also think it's a clear sign that the Sox want to be cautious to not over index on this year being an all in opportunity. Trading guys they felt had a good shot to be integral pieces in the future would be a mistake to them, and I can't blame them for that approach. The minor league system needs a talent infusion to continue to be competitive, and the guys they'd have to trade to acquire true impact talent - likely one or more of Bonemer, Carlson, Hagen Smith, Noah Schultz or Braden Montgomery - seems too expensive for a team in their position. They also don't have the quality of mid-ranked farm talent (besides Smith and Adams) that teams wanted at this deadline.

Great post…the poor development of so many of the pitching prospects really tied Getz’s hands at the deadline.

29 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Of the four players Getz acquired, one got injured in 3 games and the other three players have performed worse with the Sox than their previous team. Bad luck or bad targets?

Bad expectations.

4 minutes ago, fathom said:

Great post…the poor development of so many of the pitching prospects really tied Getz’s hands at the deadline.

Yeah, if anything that's what I take issue with on the Sox. Maybe it's hard to be good at both (Cleveland is obviously amazing at pitching development and pretty awful at hitting), but Oppor cratering, McDougal and Schultz looking awful in the majors plus Hagen Smith's control issues really hurts the pitching depth. I'd expect them to be aggressive in FA and trades this offseason to get more pitching. Hopefully Castillo doesn't limit their budget here. Lord knows they SHOULD have payroll room given how they cleaned house this offseason.

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Bad expectations.

Oh come on. The Sox even said Castillo was brought in due to his ability to provide innings as a starter, yet 3 of his 4 starts have been short.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by fathom

1 minute ago, almagest said:

Yeah, if anything that's what I take issue with on the Sox. Maybe it's hard to be good at both (Cleveland is obviously amazing at pitching development and pretty awful at hitting), but Oppor cratering, McDougal and Schultz looking awful in the majors plus Hagen Smith's control issues really hurts the pitching depth. I'd expect them to be aggressive in FA and trades this offseason to get more pitching. Hopefully Castillo doesn't limit their budget here. Lord knows they SHOULD have payroll room given how they cleaned house this offseason.

Castillo is their big add

2 minutes ago, fathom said:

Castillo is their big add

I tend to agree given the labor uncertainty and all the unknowns for next year. Plus we know JR's philosophy towards pitching.

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Castillo is their big add

He'd better not be. Skubal is almost certainly staying with the Dodgers (unless they can't afford him given their recent money and legal woes), but even if not I doubt the Sox would pay him 50+ mil/yr or whatever he'll get. The second tier has some guys worth considering though, like Michael King (opt out), Jose Berrios, Casey Mize and Shota Imanaga. Then grab a reclamation project or two and I'd feel pretty good.