i hate this he k's to much and he has way to many errors, garland did a good job today but i dont think our pitching staff is good enough to get over these errors on most days, when he was gone there was really error free deffense for the most part and i loved it, but valentine will get an error every 4 games or so.

I don't know this Valentine you speak of, he sounds quite fetching.

Didn't we trade Joe Valentine to Oakland? I think he's in Cincinnati

Who needs a ride in a PLS from Valentine?

Ozzie Guillen is our manager, not Bobby.

He just got an rbi single is his return to the Sox. I don't think trading Jose is a good idea, he will come through when you need him a lot of the time. Maybe not last year, but in the past he has and will continue to this year.

What blows my mind is that we gave him $5MM when we didn't have to. No one else was going to give it to him. To use a phrase from the Frank Thomas notebook, Jose's skills have diminished.

Didn't we trade Joe Valentine to Oakland?  I think he's in Cincinnati

Yup we already got rid of valentine

lol, "can we pls get 'ride' of 'valentine'"? Do you not like St. Valentine's day or something? Geez man, don't celebrate it if you don't like it.

i hate this he k's to much and he has way to many errors, garland did a good job today but i dont think our pitching staff is good enough to get over these errors on most days, when he was gone there was really error free deffense for the most part and i loved it, but valentine will get an error every 4 games or so.

You don't need to be picked on for your opinion, but I strongly disagree with your statement. It is getting old real fast with this demand that we trade a player that has a bad game or makes an out when we expect a homerun every time up. Jose is back in the lineup after 2 weeks and got an rbi hit. He mad ean error I see, but did it lead to a run? I don't know because I don't have the opportunity to watch teh gamer. I see the Garland gave up 2 homers accounting for 4 runs. Maybe we should get rid of him too? Loaiza had a bad outing: trade him too? Buerhle signed a 6-7 million dollar a year contract and is 1-1 and giving up lots of hits. Should we trade him too? My advice is to relax and support our team. It is early in the season.

the difference is garland is young and loaiza won 21 games last year valentin hasnt really pulled his weight since 2000.....and that rbi he got could of been done by anyone... guy on 3rd base with no outs all he had to do was hit the ball really.

i wouldnt totally agree soxfan... granted he had a low ba, but he has been a huge clubhouse man and he also comes through when you need it. He was as clutch as anyone for the last few years. To say he hasnt pulled his weight is just wrong. I'm a firm believer in the fact that a good clubhouse and good team chemistry can often times make up for a certain degree of talent. I'm with elrockin on this one

i hate this he k's to much and he has way to many errors, garland did a good job today but i dont think our pitching staff is good enough to get over these errors on most days, when he was gone there was really error free deffense for the most part and i loved it, but valentine will get an error every 4 games or so.

valentin hasnt really pulled his weight since 2000

What did you expect for $3-4 mill a year? Did you expect him to hit 25 homers, hit .275, drive in 90 every year?

 

For the price, we have gotten some pretty damn good results. Good power numbers, underrated defense, good baserunning, leadership, clutch hitting...all for under $5 mill? He's been pulling his weight just fine, thank you very much.

underrated defense

Range Factor.

 

He makes a good amount of errors a year(probably less then mediocre). 20-25 errors a year for him are almost guaranteed, and in 2000 he even made 36. Not good. But he gets to more balls then most SS's.

 

As an example, in 2000, while committing 36 errors, his range factor was 5.12, compared to the league average of 4.71. I can't tell you how many more balls that is that he got to, but it is a good amount.

 

Last year, his range factor was 4.63 compared to the league average of 4.54, and that is at the age of 34, when players are supposed to start to decline and get slower. He's still above the league average. As a comparison, Alex Rodriguez had a range factor of exactly 4.54 last year, and he won the gold glove. As another comparison, Edgar Renteria, the NL Gold Glove winner, had a range factor of 4.15, compared to the NL league average of 4.52. He was considerably lower then most. And he still made 16 errors. Jose Valentin made 20 errors. So honestly, who played better defense?

 

Given, I have not done a lot of research on these statistics, and these statistics can be inflated or deflated, depending on where the team plays, what type of offenses are in their division, what type of pitching staff his team has, who is around him defensively, where his manager plays him, etc, etc, etc. Brando seems to know a little more about this. He can probably help support this argument.

What witesoxfan probably meant with that remark is something along these lines:

 

Defense 101

Defense 101.5

his range factor was 5.12, compared to the league average of 4.71. I can't tell you how many more balls that is that he got to, but it is a good amount.

 

Over the course of a 162-game season, about 800 "reachable" balls (both groundball and flyball variety) are hit in a SS's direction, about 700-750 of them are of low or medium difficulty.

 

Forgetting about RangeFactor for a second.....Theoretically, a SS whose range is just 5% better than his counterpart, will "save" up to 30-40 bases. Something to think about when chiding Jose for making 5 to 10 more errors than an average SS in a given year.

Over the course of a 162-game season, about 800 "reachable" balls (both groundball and flyball variety) are hit in a SS's direction, about 700-750 of them are of low or medium difficulty.

 

Forgetting about RangeFactor for a second.....Theoretically, a SS whose range is just 5% better than his counterpart, will "save" up to 30-40 bases.    Something to think about when chiding Jose for making 5 to 10 more errors than an average SS in a given year.

 

That helps

Speaking of "20-25 errors".....Ozzie Smith had 6 seasons with 20+ errors. Aparicio had 10 seasons with 20+ errors, including 2 with 30+.......Those two happen to be HOF'ers.

 

Having said that, there is no excuse for taking your eye off the ball. Delgado was half way down the line and with the shift, the 1B bag was right there. When he made a tough play on a line-drive in the very next inning, I was like, "The tough one you make, but the routine grounder is dropped"....lmao

 

That reminds me of Willie Harris not getting his ass over to 1B in Baltimore. Complacecy kills.

Having said that, there is no excuse for taking your eye off the ball. Delgado was half way down the line and with the shift, the 1B bag was right there.    When he made a tough play on a line-drive in the very next inning, I was like, "The tough one you make, but the routine grounder is dropped"....lmao

That s*** doesn't surprise me at all. In fact, I notice that kind of stuff happens to me all the time when I'm playing sports.

 

You concentrate on harder plays, and lose focus on easier, routine plays.

 

Given, he is a professional and is making $5 mill a year. Just saying it is easy as hell to lose focus on the easy ones.

Of course I am another who would love to see him gone. I wouldn't mind at all a Valentin for Carlos Guillen trade (once the tigers are out of it of course.)

Damn right he's underrated defensively.

I'm certain this will be Valentin's last season with the White Sox due to the emergence of Juan Uribe. This offseason we coudl hav serious payroll flexibility with Koch also leavin and of course dpendin what happens with Maggs. I still think we make a run a Orlando Cabrera howeva, would be a great pickup for our infield.

You don't need to be picked on for your opinion, but I strongly disagree with your statement. It is getting old real fast with this demand that we trade a player that has a bad game or makes an out when we expect a homerun every time up. Jose is back in the lineup after 2 weeks and got an rbi hit. He mad ean error I see, but did it lead to a run? I don't know because I don't have the opportunity to watch teh gamer. I see the Garland gave up 2 homers accounting for 4 runs. Maybe we should get rid of him too? Loaiza had a bad outing: trade him too? Buerhle signed a 6-7 million dollar a year contract and is 1-1 and giving up lots of hits. Should we trade him too? My advice is to relax and support our team. It is early in the season.

I agree with you. I think it's dumb that everytime a player has a bad game there's 3 - 4 - 5 threads about the same BS. Trade so and so, Release so and So.

 

Fine so when Maggs or Frank has a bad game i'm starting a thread calling for them to be traded...