qwerty Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Well I didn't count the Twins gm that he started. Everybody knows he was set up to fail. Other than tonight i've been very pleased with Neal outta the pen. His era was below 3 from what I can remember. Yeah your right, i would not really count his start either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Jordanfan Cotts has already lost us 3 games on his own Anyone can pitch when we have a 5 run lead, which is the position he pitches in most of the time Show me something with the game on the line when you have to make pitches...he has shown me squat there Like I said earlier. I don't count the Twins game. He was set up to fail. Before tonight. His era was below 3 when pitching outta the pen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 He still needs some seasoning IMO. I say put him done for a little while and try wuncsh again. I'm not saying to keep him done for ever but just let him work on a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 And yet, another one of these threads show up... :headshake :puke :banghead Amazing isn't it? :headshake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 ....and that's supposed to be done in the minors. You can't learn to be a major league pitcher in the minors. It's a whole different ballgame in the show and there will be a learning curve for damn near everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxAce Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Amazing isn't it? :headshake Everytime Yasny, everytime.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 You can't learn to be a major league pitcher in the minors. It's a whole different ballgame in the show and there will be a learning curve for damn near everyone. I agree with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Anyone can pitch when we have a 5 run lead, which is the position he pitches in most of the time No you must have him confused with Adkins and Politte. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Show me something with the game on the line when you have to make pitches...he has shown me squat there Sox Losing 5-4 Man on second 2 outs. NY YANKEES 5TH -Bottom of the 5th inning -B Williams hit by pitch. -A Rodriguez flied out to left. -J Giambi grounded out to second, B Williams to second. -G Sheffield doubled to deep center, B Williams scored. -N Cotts relieved D Wright. -H Matsui struck out swinging. 1 run, 1 hit, 0 errors Chicago Sox 4, NY Yankees 5 CHICAGO SOX 6TH -Top of the 6th inning -P Konerko singled to center. -J Crede grounded into double play, second to shortstop to first, P Konerko out at second. -A Rowand struck out swinging. 0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors Chicago Sox 4, NY Yankees 5 NY YANKEES 6TH -Bottom of the 6th inning -J Posada grounded out to third. -B Crosby grounded out to second. -E Wilson grounded out to shortstop. 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors Chicago Sox 4, NY Yankees 5 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -Top of the 7th inning -M Olivo struck out swinging. -G White relieved M Mussina. -W Harris bunt grounded out to first. -J Valentin tripled to right. -T Gordon relieved G White. -M Ordonez flied out to center. 0 runs, 1 hit, 0 errors Chicago Sox 4, NY Yankees 5 NY YANKEES 7TH -Bottom of the 7th inning -D Jeter singled to left. -B Williams grounded into double play, shortstop to second to first, D Jeter out at second. -A Rodriguez doubled to deep left. -J Giambi flied out to right. 0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors Chicago Sox 4, NY Yankees 5 Sox up two winning run at the plate -- nobody out. TORONTO 7TH -A Rowand in center field. -Top of the 7th inning -C Woodward doubled to deep right center. -N Cotts relieved E Loaiza. -H Clark struck out swinging. -R Johnson hit for F Catalanotto. -R Johnson reached on bunt single to pitcher, C Woodward to third. -V Wells struck out swinging. -C Delgado grounded out to first. 0 runs, 2 hits, 0 errors Toronto 4, Chicago Sox 6 CHICAGO SOX 7TH -H Clark in left field. -R Johnson in right field. -J Speier relieved J Frasor. -Bottom of the 7th inning -F Thomas walked. -C Lee grounded into fielder's choice to third, F Thomas out at second. -P Konerko struck out swinging, C Lee tagged out at second. 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors Toronto 4, Chicago Sox 6 Tie Game -- 9th inning TAMPA BAY 9TH -N Cotts relieved S Takatsu. -Top of the 9th inning -J Cruz flied out to right. -T Martinez struck out swinging. -G Blum flied out to center. 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors Tampa Bay 2, Chicago Sox 2 1-0 game BALTIMORE 8TH -M Olivo catching. -N Cotts relieved J Garland. -Top of the 8th inning -B Roberts grounded out to pitcher. -M Mora grounded out to third. -M Tejada grounded out to second. 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors Baltimore 1, Chicago Sox 0 CHICAGO SOX 8TH -Bottom of the 8th inning -C Lee struck out swinging. -R Gload grounded out to second. -F Thomas flied out to right. 0 runs, 0 hits, 0 errors Baltimore 1, Chicago Sox 0 BALTIMORE 9TH -Top of the 9th inning -R Palmeiro grounded out to second. -J Lopez safe at first on throwing error by pitcher N Cotts. -B Surhoff grounded into fielder's choice to first, J Lopez out at second. -J Hairston Jr ran for B Surhoff. -J Gibbons grounded out to second. 0 runs, 0 hits, 1 error Baltimore 1, Chicago Sox 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshPR Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Give me a f***ing Break. And Give Cotts a f***ing break too. He lost plain and simple, it's part of being a Pitcher. What no one says is that he had Kielty struck out and Hunter Wendelstat didn't ring Kielty up on what was a pitchers pitch in a clutch situation. So until any of the people that are putting cotts down steps on a Major league mound or any mound for that matter they can't talk. I think it's kinds stupid that everytime a player makes a mistake or loses a game 2-3 threads are made putting the player down after the game. Take a f***ing chill pill people. There's 162 games the Sox aren't gonna win them all and s*** is gonna happen. And this is the way you want for Cotts to come post here??? Cotts if you read this keep up the Good Work kid This is f***ing incredible.. :headshake I gotta :banghead at some around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Sox Losing 5-4 Man on second 2 outs. Sox up two winning run at the plate -- nobody out. Tie Game -- 9th inning 1-0 game Nice job, Cheat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 I've always meant to mention this, don't know if it's been mentioned before since i was gone a while. I don't know if any of you read Baseball Prospectus, but i'm going to type out Neal's entry from this year's book: Cotts has two big strikes against him: First, high walk rates that show he's not ready for prime time, and second, a whipping, violent delivery that places a tremendous amount of strain on his elbow. BP's Will Carroll, who has a book coming out on pitching mechanics, is as down on Cott's delivery as any in pro ball. Those two problems might well be related, since the essence of a good delivery is that it's repeatable, and the essence of good control is being able to hit one's spots on demand. Certainly, Cotts has some things going for him-his fastball moves well, he keeps the ball down, and changes speeds effectively-but he's in a higher risk bracket than those kids from Jackass. ***** I'm just throwing that out there for discussion because i found it interesting when i read that this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Give me a f***ing Break. And Give Cotts a f***ing break too. He lost plain and simple, it's part of being a Pitcher. What no one says is that he had Kielty struck out and Hunter Wendelstat didn't ring Kielty up on what was a pitchers pitch in a clutch situation. So until any of the people that are putting cotts down steps on a Major league mound or any mound for that matter they can't talk. I think it's kinds stupid that everytime a player makes a mistake or loses a game 2-3 threads are made putting the player down after the game. Take a f***ing chill pill people. There's 162 games the Sox aren't gonna win them all and s*** is gonna happen. And this is the way you want for Cotts to come post here??? Cotts if you read this keep up the Good Work kid This f***ing incredible.. :headshake I gotta :banghead at some around here That's what i'm talkin about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Give me a f***ing Break. And Give Cotts a f***ing break too. He lost plain and simple, it's part of being a Pitcher. What no one says is that he had Kielty struck out and Hunter Wendelstat didn't ring Kielty up on what was a pitchers pitch in a clutch situation. So until any of the people that are putting cotts down steps on a Major league mound or any mound for that matter they can't talk. I think it's kinds stupid that everytime a player makes a mistake or loses a game 2-3 threads are made putting the player down after the game. Take a f***ing chill pill people. There's 162 games the Sox aren't gonna win them all and s*** is gonna happen. And this is the way you want for Cotts to come post here??? Cotts if you read this keep up the Good Work kid This is f***ing incredible.. :headshake I gotta :banghead at some around here You're right. Cotts came up aces a lot earlier in the year. But in the last 3 weeks, he's just become so one-dimensional. Cost a few games. He'll be more than fine in the future, but I can see where some people can be super-pissed, myself included. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 In the last 3 weeks, Neal singlehandedly lost 3 games for the Sox. In Toronto. In Minnesota. In Oakland. When the game is on the line, his curve all but disappears, change-up stays up and fastball either misses by a foot or is put on a T for a hitter to hammer. A headcase in a Sox organization? You don't say. But to be fair, Sox deserved to lose this game any way: from Konerko's baserunning blunder that had him doubled up in 2nd....to Rowand's 2 bobbles and 0-fer at plate.....to Valentin failing to get down a bunt.....to Konerko chasing a change-up in the dirt with 2 aboard......to Crede DP-happy ineptitude and "slipping" while fielding a grounder.....to Olivo choking in front of Billie Beane.....to Timo Perez's worthlessness.......to Gload not paying attention and failing to take advantage of Crosby's wild throw.....to Ozzie sending Gload.....to Loaiza's TOTAL ineptitude.....to Marte losing his s*** in the 10th. Just wanted to reply to your comments to why we lost the game. 1) Konerko's baserunning blunder? That ball was hit hard and fast. Maclamore (SP) jumped pretty damn high to get that. Tip your hat. Paul is slow leaning to the wrong base and got caught. A's got doubled up as well in what the fourth or ffith. 2) Val at bat wasn't so much of getting down the bunt, but for attempting with two strikes that bothered me, and Olivo attempting after him THe oakland annoucers where questioning that one. 3) Crede slipping. Maybe its because I have the luxary to listen to the Oakland broadcasts, but that is the same truf that the Raiders would play on, and the annoucers mentioned that Raiders players would splt a lot and went to longer spikes to grip. Chulk this one up on the " we didn't do enough research" 4) Olivo choking in front of BB: Come on I so sure Olivo is thinking you know I going to show BB what I am today, because they don't have the luxary of sports reports, cable, stats, etc. here in oakland and he doesn't know what I am doing. So when bradford came in, who by the way gave up two runs, said I am going to show KW what I am made of. Dude Whatever 5) The gload miscue from the highlights here he was turning, but he did run pretty damn far after reaching first. I think he was in Right field 6)Loiaza's ineptitude: His last few outings have been good. He was getting hit hard today, but hey show me a pitcher that can go out and be stellar every outing. Not going to happen. Oakland came with a plan. Swing for the opposite field and husle. They did and won. 7) Marte losing his s*** in the 10th: Correct me if I am wrong, but Oakland didn't score right, so what is the problem Just my comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Just wanted to reply to your comments to why we lost the game. 1) Konerko's baserunning blunder? That ball was hit hard and fast. Maclamore (SP) jumped pretty damn high to get that. Tip your hat. Paul is slow leaning to the wrong base and got caught. A's got doubled up as well in what the fourth or ffith. 2) Val at bat wasn't so much of getting down the bunt, but for attempting with two strikes that bothered me, and Olivo attempting after him THe oakland annoucers where questioning that one. 3) Crede slipping. Maybe its because I have the luxary to listen to the Oakland broadcasts, but that is the same truf that the Raiders would play on, and the annoucers mentioned that Raiders players would splt a lot and went to longer spikes to grip. Chulk this one up on the " we didn't do enough research" 4) Olivo choking in front of BB: Come on I so sure Olivo is thinking you know I going to show BB what I am today, because they don't have the luxary of sports reports, cable, stats, etc. here in oakland and he doesn't know what I am doing. So when bradford came in, who by the way gave up two runs, said I am going to show KW what I am made of. Dude Whatever 5) The gload miscue from the highlights here he was turning, but he did run pretty damn far after reaching first. I think he was in Right field 6)Loiaza's ineptitude: His last few outings have been good. He was getting hit hard today, but hey show me a pitcher that can go out and be stellar every outing. Not going to happen. Oakland came with a plan. Swing for the opposite field and husle. They did and won. 7) Marte losing his s*** in the 10th: Correct me if I am wrong, but Oakland didn't score right, so what is the problem Just my comments Come on, I gave you no less than 10 reasons why Sox looked like they "didn't have it". It wasn't meant to be. 1) Sorry, there is no such thing as "accidentally" gettting doubled off in my book. Notice how I don't blame Rowand for the DP - he did his job by hitting the ball hard. 2) Val blew it. No excuse. 3) Again, I don't buy it. Crede had the ball stuck in his glove 3 times this year. That's an error in my book. Slipping on a non-wet surface is too. In either instance, an out should have been recorded and it wasn't. End of story. 4) I was being facetious, but whatever. Olivo had a crappy day, highlighted by a GIDP off a lefty - and he kills lefties this year. 5) Yeah, he turned his head and reacted too late. With their vast foul ground, he could have made it to 2nd if he had picked up on the fact that Crosby totally airmailed it. Tough to hold it against the baserunner, but it's funny how Sox always had so many similar excuses back in 2002 and 2003, while Minnesota and other good team always managed to take advabtage seemingly of every fundamental miscue comitted by the Sox..... 6) Uribe made a brilliant play and Loaiza helped himself on a liner DP. Another A got caught in the run-down. Chavez juuuuust mised a 3-run homer. In short, Loaiza looked BAD. I understand it happens, but it's still one of the reasons why Sox didn't "deserve" to win. 7) Yeah, cuz Shingo TOTALLY bailed his ass out. I do give Marte judos for pitching 2 scoreless innnings before. Obvisouly there were other reasons for losing as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 My thoughts on the Gload incident. He was busting ass down the first base line to try and beat the throw after the diving stop. He had it in his mind to to beat it out and he had to haul ass and run through the bag hard. He did exactly what he should have done and I don't fault him for not picking up on the fact the ball was overthrown soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 2, 2004 Author Share Posted June 2, 2004 The Cheat Thanks for the facts.....I guess I was too hard on him. I was wrong. But I still have issues with his constant walks and wild pitches....I have cooled down since being mad at losing this game.....let's see what he does going forward.....but he better not walk lead off men in tight games anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 The Cheat Thanks for the facts.....I guess I was too hard on him. I was wrong. But I still have issues with his constant walks and wild pitches....I have cooled down since being mad at losing this game.....let's see what he does going forward.....but he better not walk lead off men in tight games anymore It will happen again. Hopefully not often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 You can't learn to be a major league pitcher in the minors. It's a whole different ballgame in the show and there will be a learning curve for damn near everyone. Just like Hawk & DJ said last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 ....and that's supposed to be done in the minors. You cannot completely learn Major league baseball by not playing in the Major League. Almost every player takes a season or two at that level to get adjusted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzietheairedale Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 So until any of the people that are putting cotts down steps on a Major league mound or any mound for that matter they can't talk. Well, I guess we can all turn our computers off and stop criticizing pitchers because JoshPR has decided that if we haven't been on the mound we should just shut up. For that matter, 99% of the baseball commentators in the world should just shut up because JoshPR has decided that they don't know anything either. Of course, his opinions should be listened to by everybody. What really makes me want to :puke is people like JoshPR, YASNY and JReedfan who keep taking it upon themselves to decide what can be criticized and what can't. Stop whining about how much complaining there is about a freakin' game. It's you guys who need to chill out. If you don't like listening to fans do what they've been doing for a century while watching baseball, just stop reading it. But for God's sake, stop whining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 What do people see in this guy? He has to walk someone every inning (and very likely the lead off man).....he has major control issues throwing wild pitches .....and he has no real strike out pitch....he does not throw more than 90 with his fast ball Why the hell is he so hyped up? Look at the other guy the As threw out there ....that guy looked like a young stud with his Zito-esque breaking ball Please...honestly now I see nothing wrong...we got LUCKY to get in extra innings last night...we still are a competitive team...its one game, this is a marathon, not a sprint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 So until any of the people that are putting cotts down steps on a Major league mound or any mound for that matter they can't talk. Well Jas, I guess you should shut this down or only allow big leagers to post. Since clearly no one here is qualified to comment about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted June 2, 2004 Share Posted June 2, 2004 Well Jas, I guess you should shut this down or only allow big leagers to post. Since clearly no one here is qualified to comment about anything. Except for Cotts himself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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