Say what you want about this team. We're not going anywhere unless this guy takes his head out his ass. He wants more money? He wants Garica money? EARN IT. Prove to everybody last year wasn't a fluke. Buehrle and Garcia just shut down one of the best offensive line-ups in baseball. Loaiza is pitching tomorrow. Will he step up like a TRUE ace should? Or will he continue to pitch Loaiza style pre-2003? Will find out soon enough.

Loaiza didn't pitch that badly on Sunday. Except for Crosby's 2 run shot that just cleared the wall, Estaban only gave up 2 runs in 6 innings.

Loaiza didn't pitch that badly on Sunday.  Except for Crosby's 2 run shot that just cleared the wall, Estaban only gave up 2 runs in 6 innings.

That came after we gave him a 2 run lead. He's been doing way to much of that this season. A true ace shuts the opposition down when you get him a lead. Not go right back out there after getting a lead and givin it up the next inning. That 4.79 era of his needs to go down. Period.

That 4.79 era of his needs to go down.  Period.

To about a four.

By all means, I wouldn't call Loaiza an ACE! He's our third best pitcher right now! Last year WAS a fluke. There's no way he's going to win 20 games again at this rate. But we don't need a #3 starter to win 20 games. What we need him to do is get AT LEAST 6 innings in (closer to 7 would be better) and get the game to the bullpen with a LEAD. He hasn't been able to do this lately, as he seems to lose concentration and then any lead our offense has given him completely vanishes!

 

Could there be a problem with his throwing arm that nobody knows about? I'm starting to wonder...

By all means, I wouldn't call Loaiza an ACE!  He's our third best pitcher right now!  Last year WAS a fluke.  There's no way he's going to win 20 games again at this rate.  But we don't need a #3 starter to win 20 games.  What we need him to do is get AT LEAST 6 innings in (closer to 7 would be better) and get the game to the bullpen with a LEAD.  He hasn't been able to do this lately, as he seems to lose concentration and then any lead our offense has given him completely vanishes!

 

Could there be a problem with his throwing arm that nobody knows about?  I'm starting to wonder...

I agree that he's not an ace. But didn't he say he wanted Garcia money? If he wants 9 or 10 million a year he needs to pitch a hell of a lot better than he is now.

Loaiza is not our ace.....he's a quality #3 pitcher, hopefully he'll be more tommorow

I agree that he's not an ace.  But didn't he say he wanted Garcia money?  If he wants 9 or 10 million a year he needs to pitch a hell of a lot better than he is now.

He can want 30 million per year but that does not mean a team has to pay him.

Loaiza is behind Garland in my book until he proves otherwise. Hopefully he can keep this ship smooth sailing tomorrow, because this could be a huge hot streak that vaults us into a nice lead in the division

Loaiza is behind Garland in my book until he proves otherwise.

Jon "Big Inning" Garland? Care to explain why?

His numbers are better...and watching them pitch all year, i think Jon is the better pitcher. Loaiza has had nothing for a while now.

Jon "Big Inning" Garland?  Care to explain why?

Jon has not had a "big inning" that rivals anything MB or EL have thrown out there this season... MB has had a 5 run and 7 run first, and EL has given up a 6 run fifth, that he didn't get out of...Those two are allowed to have bad innings without getting nicknames...

 

JG has had only one bad game, and that was on a day where he said he was going to "take one for the team" versus the Phillies... And on that night I don't think anybody could have kept the ball in the park... The ball was f***ing jumping...

 

Plain and simple, JG has been the MOST CONSISTENT of our starters this season, whether you want to believe it or not.

IMO, Garcia has been the most consistant since he's came here. He has not given up more than 4 earned runs yet. Loaiza is just a #3 (more of a solid #4 at best) 7 quality innings is all I'm asking from him.

Could there be a problem with his throwing arm that nobody knows about?  I'm starting to wonder...

He has a tendon injury in his shoulder or elbow which is causing the lack of velocity, he's trying to nurse it through the season.

He has a tendon injury in his shoulder or elbow which is causing the lack of velocity, he's trying to nurse it through the season. 

Wow. Thanks DBAH0. This does explain alot. No wonder he's not getting the bite on his pitches this year.

Wow. Thanks DBAH0. This does explain alot. No wonder he's not getting the bite on his pitches this year.

I heard it from Steff from a thread about a month or 2 ago when Loaiza started to struggle. Shows you why he's pitching in the high 80's and not the 90's though.

Even though he could stop getting the big inning, maybe this will stop people for getting on his ass THIS much.

I don't understand the hate of Loaiza.

Especially if he's pitching hurt.

What gives?

Did he refuse to sign for you or what??

Somehow I doubt that ELo is all shaken up that a poster at soxtalk has called him out.

 

I am not even sure what this is supposed to mean.

 

And it seems to me that whether he wins or loses or gets a no decsion tomorrow that he will be pitching the best he can and will do the same every game he pitches.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE HE DOESN'T HAVE THAT KILLER INSTINCT THAT HE HAD LAST YEAR........OTHER THEN HIS GAME IN TAMPA EARILER IN THE SEASON

I don't understand the hate of Loaiza.

Especially if he's pitching hurt.

What gives?

Did he refuse to sign for you or what??

Hate? You gotta be kidding me. I didn't start this thread because I hate Loaiza. I started this thread because we need him to STEP UP. Garcia has been great since he's been here. Buehrle is starting to get it going after a little rough patch. Do you really believe we can get by with just those two pitching well? If we didn't need Loaiza to pitch well to win this division, I wouldn't even worry about him. But, we do need him. I've all but thrown out the possiblty of him ever getting back to his 2003 level. Still, we can't have him with an era close to 5 either.

Once again, look at the numbers - they don't lie.

 

Estaban Loaiza's last 4 years:

 

2001 - 190.0 IP, 239 H, 106ER, 27 HR, 110 K, 11-11, 5.02 ERA

 

2002 - 151.1 IP, 192 H, 96 ER, 18 HR, 87 K, 9-10, 5.74 ERA

 

2003 - 226.1 IP, 196 H, 73 ER, 17 HR, 207 K, 21-9, 2.90 ERA

 

2004 - 127.2 IP, 141 H, 68 ER, 19 HR, 74 K, 8-5, 4.79 ERA

 

 

The guy is mediocre. He had his career year last year. But if you want to believe otherwise, or think that he's "hurt," so be it. It's a free country.

Once again, look at the numbers - they don't lie.

 

Estaban Loaiza's last 4 years:

 

2001 - 190.0 IP, 239 H, 106ER, 27 HR, 110 K, 11-11, 5.02 ERA

 

2002 - 151.1 IP, 192 H, 96 ER, 18 HR, 87 K, 9-10, 5.74 ERA

 

2003 - 226.1 IP, 196 H, 73 ER, 17 HR, 207 K, 21-9, 2.90 ERA

 

2004 - 127.2 IP, 141 H, 68 ER, 19 HR, 74 K, 8-5, 4.79 ERA

 

 

The guy is mediocre.  He had his career year last year.  But if you want to believe otherwise, or think that he's "hurt," so be it.  It's a free country.

I can see the numbers fine. But I can also see the numbers on the radar gun. His speeds are down 6-7 mph over last year.

Did anyone really expect Loaiza to match last year? This is about what I expected from him. It's like with Konerko, I never expected him to have another horrid season like last year. Konerko's long term performance suggested that he'd rebound this year. Loaiza's long term performance suggested he had a "career" year.

Elo wins go down, MB wins go up, even from last year. We needed to replace Colon and we did (finally). Garland has improved from last season. We are starting to get some help from the #5 spot. All in all, I think we are ahead of last season in the starting rotation.

 

I'd like to have kept Flash. I think our bullpen is down a bit for long relief and set up, better at closer.

 

You can never have too much pitching, but there are not many staffs I would trade lock, stock, and barrel for. (whatever the hell that means, and I'll bet someone here knows)