greg775 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Seems like the traffic on here is down. Maybe I'm just dazed, bored and gloomy on a sleepy Sunday, or depressed we still can't prevent the Twinks from winning this division ... but do you see any reason for real hope for our Sox next year? We still are slow afoot. We have a lot of marginal players that we're kind of excited about, who frankly aren't championship quality (Uribe, Timo, Ben Davis, Burke, the guy playing ss now), young guys like Crede and Borchard who have somwhat disappointed. Contreras doesn't look like he's all that and we know all about Garland's inconsistencies, which means our starting staff still has severe Q marks. Oz we've learned apparently isn't a savior. Maggs is aching and may be gone. Hurt isn't getting any younger. My question is ... can anybody cheer me up or do we look like a franchise that has seen it's best days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Their is definately hope, but lets see what happens in the offseason. Sox seem to be preparing themselves for a busy offseason and have been giving a few hints that they got some ideas and a definate plan in mind. Attendance was up this year and JR and the other owners seem to be willing to up the payroll a bit. I feel a lot better for the franchise today, then I did last year at the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 here is what has me down. The Twinkies have no more payroll than us. In fact, for most of the last four seasons, I would guess they have less. They have lost Milton, Mays, Reed, Rogers, Guardado and Hawkins from their pitching staff over the last few years. They have lost A.J., Mienky, Ortiz from their lineup over the last few years. They have survived injuries to Mauer and Shannon Stewart this year. And they still kick our butt -- relentlessly. It's more than talent. It's total superiority as an organization. And what is scary is they have more good young players coming -- and their GM knows how to put together a team. It's hurts to say it, but it's the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Did Minnesota not have more payroll than us this season? I could have sworn they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 1 New York Yankees $184,193,950 2 Boston Red Sox $127,298,500 3 Anaheim Angels $100,534,667 4 New York Mets $96,660,970 5 Philadelphia Phillies $93,219,167 6 Los Angeles Dodgers $92,902,001 7 Chicago Cubs $90,560,000 8 Atlanta Braves $90,182,500 9 St. Louis Cardinals $83,228,333 10 San Francisco Giants $82,019,166 11 Seattle Mariners $81,515,834 12 Houston Astros $75,397,000 13 Arizona Diamondbacks $69,780,750 14 Colorado Rockies $65,445,167 15 Chicago White Sox $65,212,500 16 Oakland Athletics $59,425,667 17 San Diego Padres $55,384,833 18 Texas Rangers $55,050,417 19 Minnesota Twins $53,585,000 20 Baltimore Orioles $51,623,333 21 Toronto Blue Jays $50,017,000 22 Kansas City Royals $47,609,000 23 Detroit Tigers $46,832,000 24 Cincinnati Reds $46,615,250 25 Florida Marlins $42,143,042 26 Montreal Expos $41,197,500 27 Cleveland Indians $34,319,300 28 Pittsburgh Pirates $32,227,929 29 Tampa Bay Devil Rays $29,556,667 30 Milwaukee Brewers $27,528,500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Did Minnesota not have more payroll than us this season? I could have sworn they did. No but they did last season... And they still have Cy Mays under contract... He will be back pitching for them next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 25 Florida Marlins $42,143,042 All the more reason to root for the Marlins to win the Wild Card. Back on topic, the reason my posts are down a bit is: 1. Busier at work/busier at home 2. Sox are frustrating right now, win or lose - when they play like they did today, it's depressing and when they win 8 of 11, the "too little too late" factor drives me nuts. 3. Lots of family events this month keeping me out of the house or busy otherwise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Did Minnesota not have more payroll than us this season? I could have sworn they did. Coming into this season, I believe so. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=chw Total Team Salary : 68,262,500 But take off; Escobar, Garcia, Davis, Hairston, Sadler, Roberto, Carl, and 4.5 million for the difference between Loaiza's and Contreras' contracts, and you're left with $49,211,066 The Twins' roster is missing some people, but according to ESPN.com, their payroll is still higher. $53,585,000 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/teams/salaries?team=min Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 OK, say the payrolls are essentially a wash. They still do a better job of shedding players and replacing them, finding bargain bin pitchers and developing players in the minor leagues. As long as the Sox are going to hardline guys on salary (which is fine with me) they HAVE to do a better job in player development. The washout of most of our top pitching prospects have to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 here is what has me down. The Twinkies have no more payroll than us. In fact, for most of the last four seasons, I would guess they have less. They have lost Milton, Mays, Reed, Rogers, Guardado and Hawkins from their pitching staff over the last few years. They have lost A.J., Mienky, Ortiz from their lineup over the last few years. They have survived injuries to Mauer and Shannon Stewart this year. And they still kick our butt -- relentlessly. It's more than talent. It's total superiority as an organization. And what is scary is they have more good young players coming -- and their GM knows how to put together a team. It's hurts to say it, but it's the truth. the key is, they have a gm who knows what he is doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 yes, they do. Just does his job and doesn't run his mouth. doesn't get the pub of Billy Beane or Epstein or even Kenny Williams, but for my money the guy (Terry Ryan) is as good as anybody in the American League. He beat us in 2001 with one team -- and now he's reworked half that team and he's still beating us. Guy lost most of his bullpen and didn't miss a step. I tip my cap to the Twinkies and shake my head at the Sox ineptitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 doesn't it seem that kw loves the media and imo love to see him name in the press??? i am just wondering Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babybearhater Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 Im honestly ready to rebuild this team again. The first white flag trade left us all with a sour taste in our mouths, but I'd rather do that and develop and actual team, than try to buy a bunch of washed up vets (everett, alomar). Thats why minnesota is so good, they develop players, and when they want big contracts, they replace them with the next prospect. It would make alot of us happy to see our team be made up with people we have had in the organization for more than year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 agreed. With both the previous two posts. KW does like to see his name in the papers. Reinsdorf never talks so KW fills the vacuum. Also agree that it's time to get away from the washed up vets. We've traded five prospects for Carl Everett -- and now we're probably looking for a way to dump Everett. That's silly. Roberto's tank is empty. So is Sandy's. So was Mike Jackson. The problem we'll have building with young players is we don't have many (if any) ready for the bigs next season. We had nothing at Charlotte except Borchard -- and we know how that has worked out. The position players at Birmingham are at least a year away, the guys at Winston Salem two years away. Unless we're going to get one big money free agent outfielder to replace Maggs, another pitcher and make some wise moves on some less expensive guys, we're not going to challenge Minnesota again next season either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 here is a thought, how many players has minny depended on that came from the farm and that contributed???? now how many came from the sox??? i alway thought that the sox pitching phil was good in the lower level yet they look at what panned out. is the problem with the talent evulation and drafting or what Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 off the top of my head Twins home grown Morneau Rivas Koskie Ford Hunter Jones Mauer Cuddyer Restovich I'm not as certain about the pitchers. I believe Radke is home grown. As are Balfour and Romero. IMPORTS Stewart from Toronto Guzman from the Yankees Santana came through their system, but was part of a complicated Rule Five deal involving the Marlins and Astros, I believe. Nathan is from the Giants. Lohse from the Cubs. Silva from Philly, I believe. Not sure about Rincon. As for us Homegrown Crede Rowand Lee Ordonez Thomas Borchard Buehrle Imports R. Alomar S. Alomar Konerko -- Dodgers/Reds Harris -- Orioles Valentin -- Brewers Davis -- Mariners/Padres Everett -- Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, Expos, Rangers Gload -- Cubs, Rockies, I believe Uribe -- Rockies Garcia -- Astros, Mariners Contreras -- Yankees Garland -- Cubs (that explains it) Marte -- Yankees, Pirates Politte -- Blue Jays, Phillies, I believe Grilli -- Giants, Marlins. Burke -- Angels Takatsu -- Japan Adkins -- As Cotts - As Subtract Thomas and Ordonez and the record is very, very lame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangekrush88 Posted September 13, 2004 Share Posted September 13, 2004 15 Chicago White Sox $65,212,500 Right in the middle of payroll and also right in the middle of the league talent and record wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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