When I first clicked the link (i didn't vote, as I didn't watch) the dabate was still going, yet the poll was 13-4 Bush.  So those that actually watched the debate have pushed the results heavily the other direction... 15-3 Kerry since I first looked.

Thats because all the media polls said Kerry won, I would hate to think people's opinions were given to them and not formulated on their own....

When I first clicked the link (i didn't vote, as I didn't watch) the dabate was still going, yet the poll was 13-4 Bush.  So those that actually watched the debate have pushed the results heavily the other direction... 15-3 Kerry since I first looked.

Hmmm

 

What in the world is going on around here when people can't even wait for a debate to end before they vote.

Half the battle in a debate is how you present yourself.

Unfortunately I'm stuck at work and can't listen to all the post-debate commentators...but has anyone mentioned Kerry's nice timeline manipulation on the NKorean deal. He was talking about how a year ago, or whatever, we had cameras and press in the Pyongyang facility and now we don't have anyone there, inspectors have been kicked out. Fact is, the inspectors were kicked out under the Clinton administration and the cameras were allowed in a year ago to show off their new toys to the world to instill fear. I can't believe Bush didn't call him out.

Poland.

 

Kerry mopped the floor with Bush tonight.

Poland.

But...but...what about Poland? You forgot about Poland!

Poland.

 

Kerry mopped the floor with Bush tonight.

And not one mention of us in the alliance. How dare they.

I dont really get the whole thing where Poland is some type of Joke.....

 

I mean there part of the EU and slowly but surely becoming a power in Europe.

 

Granted they're not a major power like France or Germany, but their nothing to just disregard..... sorry I just dont get it. But the DailyShow made fun of that comment so it must have substance right? (regardless of that last comment I do really enjoy that show.)

 

On top of that, the polish population is quite large in the United States....so to disregard Poland is political mistake.

I dont really get the whole thing where Poland is some type of Joke.....

 

I mean there part of the EU and slowly but surely becoming a power in Europe.

 

Granted they're not a major power like France or Germany, but their nothing to just disregard..... sorry I just dont get it. But the DailyShow made fun of that comment so it must have substance right? (regardless of that last comment I do really enjoy that show.)

 

On top of that, the polish population is quite large in the United States....so to disregard Poland is political mistake.

When you think of european countries and world powers, Poland just doesn't spring to mind. I think to call them a major part of the alliance, is a big mistake, but that's just me.

I dont really get the whole thing where Poland is some type of Joke.....

 

I mean there part of the EU and slowly but surely becoming a power in Europe.

 

Granted they're not a major power like France or Germany, but their nothing to just disregard..... sorry I just dont get it. But the DailyShow made fun of that comment so it must have substance right? (regardless of that last comment I do really enjoy that show.)

 

On top of that, the polish population is quite large in the United States....so to disregard Poland is political mistake.

Well, I most definitely get the joke, as I've been completely surrounded by Polish people for my entire life here on the northwest side of Chicago.

 

And yeah, I did tune into the Jon Stewart show afterwards (although I rarely ever watch it) and I was laughing my ass off for quite a while there...

The point is nobody mopped the floor with anybody tonight.

 

Debates are hard to win but they're very easy to lose. Al Gore sighing or GHWB looking at his watch. These are the kinds of things that people remember and none of them really happened tonight.

 

As far as material, both these guys had their rehearsed lines and memorized figures and repeated the hell out of them. I do think the material gave Kerry a slight edge towards the end where it seemed like Dubya was somewhat unprepared to have an in-depth discussion on Korea. Still, nobody won a decisive victory of any kind tonight. Hopefully the next debate we'll see some more candidate interaction.

I dont understand that appearance definitely counts for something when people decide who was better and Bush was a stumbling, bumbling, and innarticulate.... but I really feel sorry for anyone who would totally base their opinion just on that. Kerry's arguements were often wrong, and he even contradicted himself a few times. Kerry may have been a more coehesive speaker.... but my god LISTEN TO WHAT IS COMING OUT HIS MOUTH! It was complete garbage.

Ya, but in general the public doesn't make decisions based upon stuff like that, imo. I think in general the democratic party (this is me genearlizes) has a platform that can rally more people then the republican party.

 

However, that doesn't mean they are right...hell I'm a republican cause It goes much more along my lines of belief.

I dont really get the whole thing where Poland is some type of Joke.....

 

I mean there part of the EU and slowly but surely becoming a power in Europe.

 

Granted they're not a major power like France or Germany, but their nothing to just disregard..... sorry I just dont get it. But the DailyShow made fun of that comment so it must have substance right? (regardless of that last comment I do really enjoy that show.)

 

On top of that, the polish population is quite large in the United States....so to disregard Poland is political mistake.

If Poland is a political power in Europe, half of the Balkans rule Europe with an iron fist.

 

In European powers it goes GB, France, German, Russia, no one. Italy has close to no power at all, and the Balkan states are too busy killing off each other to exert some amount of power over the EU.

 

Face it, Poland is just a country of outcasted Germans during the Crusades.

I DO understand that appearance definitely counts for something when people decide who was better and Bush was a stumbling, bumbling, and innarticulate.... but I really feel sorry for anyone who would totally base their opinion just on that. Kerry's arguements were often wrong, and he even contradicted himself a few times. Kerry may have been a more coehesive speaker.... but my god LISTEN TO WHAT IS COMING OUT HIS MOUTH! It was complete garbage.

 

edited: Do was replaced instead of Don't... that was a mistake.

Well other than bumbling and stumbling and rolling his eyes throughout the debate what did he have going for him???

 

"I Know how the world works"

 

For all those people who constantly call Bush an idiot they were certainly provided with some more proof to back that up tonight... Like they needed it.

15-7 in favor of bush???

 

Look at the polls heads had up this summer, I voted for bush.

 

Anyone who thinks bush won this debate either A-did not watch or B-is blinded by their own opinions

Nope i just hate people that belly up under presure and cant tell me what they are really thinking making his word worthless, bush may not have the best beliefs in stim cell research etc. but hey at least he hasnt flip flopped about it.

Nope i just hate people that belly up under presure and cant tell me what they are really thinking making his word worthless, bush may not have the best beliefs in stim cell research etc. but hey at least he hasnt flip flopped about it.

Bush got beat tonight, get over it.

Ya, but in general the public doesn't make decisions based upon stuff like that, imo.  I think in general the democratic party (this is me genearlizes) has a platform that can rally more people then the republican party. 

 

However, that doesn't mean they are right...hell I'm a republican cause It goes much more along my lines of belief.

The General public doesn't make decisions based on stuff like that? What would you call the Howard Dean meltdown speech?

 

The public is very superficial and it's a shame...

Good analysis. One thing as a Bush supporter that I'm hoping for is for people to take notice of how Kerry continued to point out about Saddaam and what not and how the war wasn't right and then near the end he completely contradicted himself. I don't want to give any quotes cause I Don't have the exact quote in front of me but I was just like, what the hell.

To claify Kerry's political stance on the Iraqi War, Kerry said Saddam Hussein removal from power was warranted, but should have been postponed until the cooperation of United Nations was present. Unless he provided other conflicting points (Sox game was occuring simultaneously) this is what I gathered.

 

Another thing that really stood out that I heard none of the pundits talk about was Kerry of all people talking about the lack of bullet proof vests and what not for the troops.  This is coming from the guy that made his big political stance on the 87 billion dollar initiatve that he voted against, after saying how anyone that wouldn't vote for this was a fool (once again, dont' hvae the exact quote so if someone does post it ).  Where the hell was BUsh capitalizings on this.

 

If this is an example of a Kerry Flip Flop then its Bush's loss for failing to take advantage of his oppenets undecisive beliefs. In all honestly, spending money on bullet proof vests in a volitile war-zone is completely useless. Teflon vests would only shield the soliders from low caliber bullet fragments while offering no protection from the usual terrorist weapons (Ideally the AK-47). Ammunition from a Kalishnakov would tear through the vest like a stick a budda.

The General public doesn't make decisions based on stuff like that? What would you call the Howard Dean meltdown speech?

 

The public is very superficial and it's a shame...

I'll definitely agree with you on that one..

Nope i just hate people that belly up under presure and cant tell me what they are really thinking making his word worthless, bush may not have the best beliefs in stim cell research etc. but hey at least he hasnt flip flopped about it.

Yeah man, Hitler had some pretty strong beliefs and wasn't backing down from no one. He may have been wrong but hey at least he didn't change his opinions over time.

Yeah man, Hitler had some pretty strong beliefs and wasn't backing down from no one. He may have been wrong but hey at least he didn't change his opinions over time.

I'm just gonna throw out a question here; What would you rather have? A man who has the wrong beliefs but doesn't change them, or a man who changes his beliefs but COULD have the right beliefs?

I'm just gonna throw out a question here; What would you rather have? A man who has the wrong beliefs but doesn't change them, or a man who changes his beliefs but COULD have the right beliefs?

right now? a sandwich. I'm hungry.

Kerry won the debate, although it was nothing impressive, he did win hands down.

 

The funny thing to me is how people from both sides are trying to make less of the others characteristics.

 

Kerry is a guy who apparently can't stick with a decision and Bush is a guy who is too stubburn to admit when he's f***ed up. both are major flaws, neither is worse than the other.

Thats because all the media polls said Kerry won, I would hate to think people's opinions were given to them and not formulated on their own....

No it was because Bush is a bumbling fool. Kerry owned last night.

I thought they were going to kiss right there on stage. Kind of a Madonna, Britney thing.