i think if this orgisation is serious about winning now... they will trade from RJ, then sign clement or perez in addition to rj.... with another upgrade in the field added to ofset the loss of rowand

 

that would mean a payrol increase of about 15... putting us around 90 million total

 

so, aint happnin... if we had the angles owner... we'd win the WS this year

I disagree that Vizcaino can come in and replace Marte in the role of lefty hitter stopper. Look at some of the better lefty hitters in our division. Guys like Hafner, J. Jones (if he's still there), and Joe Mauer hit significantly better against rhp than they do lhp. Yes, Vizcaino can be tough vs lefties, but Marte is one of the best 3 lefty relievers in baseball.

if kenny is stupid enough to trade sweeny and or anderson then he is screwing up his "boards" for the next 10 years

 

How long has it been since we've won anything? How many of our great minor leaguers have helped us win our weak division? I am sick and tired of hyping how good or great our minor leaguers are. When we have a chance to land one of the best pitchers if not the best in the game, we should go forward and do it!

 

My best offer for RJ:

 

Garland, Marte, Everett, Anderson and Chris Young

 

However, if AZ asks for Sweeney, then NO DEAL. IMHO, Sweeney is untouchable. He's my Mickey Mantle.

 

It's much easier to replace the Garland, Marte, Everett, Anderson and Chris Young than to acquire a gem in Johnson.

I disagree that Vizcaino can come in and replace Marte in the role of lefty hitter stopper.  Look at some of the better lefty hitters in our division.  Guys like Hafner, J. Jones (if he's still there), and Joe Mauer hit significantly better against rhp than they do lhp.  Yes, Vizcaino can be tough vs lefties, but Marte is one of the best 3 lefty relievers in baseball.

Call me crazy, but a healthy Scho can sure up the pen pretty good. He's not quite Marte, but I think Scho (as a reliever) is one of the best in baseball (in terms of a lefty reliever).

 

Plus having Hermy and Vizcaino who are both gains. You lose a bit from Marte to Scho but gain a lot in Hermy and Vizcaino. Still giving the Sox a very good pen.

I disagree that Vizcaino can come in and replace Marte in the role of lefty hitter stopper.  Look at some of the better lefty hitters in our division.  Guys like Hafner, J. Jones (if he's still there), and Joe Mauer hit significantly better against rhp than they do lhp.  Yes, Vizcaino can be tough vs lefties, but Marte is one of the best 3 lefty relievers in baseball.

They hit better against righties who throw better against righties. Marte may be one of the 3 best lefty relievers, but you're getting Randy Johnson in return. RJ is far more valuable.

 

Vizcaino vs. Lefties: 129 AB - 163 BAA - 245 OBP

Marte vs. Lefties: 98 AB - 143 BAA - 256 OBP

 

Marte has a better batting average against, but his number of walks makes his obp against worse.

i think if we could do that, it would be worth losing rowand, garland, and marte

Your entire deal rests on JR raising payroll 12 million dollars. Which is highly unlikely.

 

If Reinsdorf had 12 million available, Why not KEEP Rowand, KEEP Marte, KEEP Sweeney, KEEP Garland and spend the remainder on Perez, other remaining holes.

 

I wish we can all collectively agree trading important pieces of our team for Johnson is not worth it.

wonder if they would take everett and borchard and marte and garland? --we keep rowand, but give them another player that has 'potential' :headshake

 

OR trade rowand if somehow JR gets greedy and buys beltran... heh yeah right

Call me crazy, but a healthy Scho can sure up the pen pretty good.  He's not quite Marte, but I think Scho (as a reliever) is one of the best in baseball (in terms of a lefty reliever). 

 

Plus having Hermy and Vizcaino who are both gains.  You lose a bit from Marte to Scho but gain a lot in Hermy and Vizcaino.  Still giving the Sox a very good pen.

Crazy.

You're entire deal rests on JR raising payroll 12 million dollars. Which is highly unlikely.

 

If Reinsdorf had 12 million available, Why not KEEP Rowand, KEEP Marte, KEEP Sweeney, KEEP Garland and spend the remainder on Perez, other remaining holes.

 

I wish we can all collectively agree trading important pieces of our team for Johnson is not worth it.

Techinically the Sox have 10 mill available right now, so the 12 mill gained from the salary would increase the Sox budgeted payroll 2 million.

 

Meaning there payroll would be 77 million, 2 million over the alleged 75 mill budget.

I think everyone is overreacting here. In beginning negotaions Arizona has nothing to lose for asking for the moon. They'll come down a bit off their offers, for this I'm sure.

 

Also, we're forgetting something here. If we trade Sweeney, we lose his hot sister. Jason knows what I am talking about...

I didn't say that the Carlos trade created more holes for the Sox.  It just infuriated me that the particular trade didnt help the Sox out by obtaining a middle infielder, catcher, or starting pitcher.  Now, I know the money saved could go to a starting pitcher...but I'll believe that when it happens.  Also, there's quite a big downgrade in talent from Marte to Cotts or Schoeneweis.  Even in his down year last year, Marte was still lights out against lefties.

 

Another thought I have about RJ is that it makes a lot more sense for the Yanks to get him than the Sox cause the Yanks are basically one stud pitcher away from being the favorite to win the WS.  Rather, the Sox need RJ to even have a solid shot at winning the division.

Vizcaino can face both LH and RH hitters in the 8th inning. So the drop off wouldn't be Marte to Cotts but Marte to Vizcaino.

 

The lee trade filled a few needs [bullpen, speed at the top of the order, cash for other needs]. SP is another need I agree. A veteran UTL IF like Miguel Cairo would come cheap. C would be hard to fill anyway, and might be fine w/ Davis and Burke.

 

RJ on the sox could help the sox get to the playoffs. It's not a lock. But once there, the sox would be in a better position to win it all [if some holes are filled by the trade deadline] w/ RJ rather than a Clement or a Perez, right?

Schoeneweis wants to start in the majors, I don't think he'd agree to arbitration if he knows that they want him as a reliever. In today's market, he stands to make more money as a crappy starter than a solid reliever. Also, I thought that Ozzie hated Schoeneweis last year, and that Schoeneweis had some injury problems.

Call me crazy, but a healthy Scho can sure up the pen pretty good. He's not quite Marte, but I think Scho (as a reliever) is one of the best in baseball (in terms of a lefty reliever).

 

Plus having Hermy and Vizcaino who are both gains. You lose a bit from Marte to Scho but gain a lot in Hermy and Vizcaino. Still giving the Sox a very good pen. 

 

you all are assuming with scho that he will accept being in the pen... last year he did not like that at all... was whiny and such... and wasnt he the pitcher that sox management had issues with in spring training?

I think everyone is overreacting here. In beginning negotaions Arizona has nothing to lose for asking for the moon. They'll come down a bit off their offers, for this I'm sure.

 

Also, we're forgetting something here. If we trade Sweeney, we lose his hot sister. Jason knows what I am talking about...

ROFLMAO....I'm sure that crazy guy from WS still thinks I'm a little odd

ROFLMAO....I'm sure that crazy guy from WS still thinks I'm a little odd 

Jason is gayyyyyyyy.

Techinically the Sox have 10 mill available right now, so the 12 mill gained from the salary would increase the Sox budgeted payroll 2 million.

 

Meaning there payroll would be 77 million, 2 million over the alleged 75 mill budget.

Jason, the figure I included in my post was in response to hi8is' proposal of Reinsdorf giving Williams an additional 12 million, after the trade. Here is what I specifically commented on:

 

so jerry, what im asking from you, is for you to give me 12 million more this year.... i want the 7 mil a year its gonna take for oldais perez.... and the other 5 million for some help at upgrading our catcher and bullpen to offset our other losses..

 

Ultimately, trading for Johnson upgrades our staff, yet depletes our OF/RP/minor league system AND leaves absolutely no financial flexibility to fill remaining holes.

Also, we're forgetting something here. If we trade Sweeney, we lose his hot sister. Jason knows what I am talking about...

Holy s***, you popped me big time.

 

I forgot all about that.

 

Oh man. LOL!!!!

Jason is gayyyyyyyy.

That was what he said!

The White Sox haven't won a World Series since 1917, but they could be considered a strong contender now that they have a genuine basestealing threat at the top of the lineup.

 

I was one of the biggest supporters in getting SPod..BUt Even I know that s*** aint true..

 

 

SAY NO TO JOHNSON,, Hudson is much nicer to say.. Plus the fact that him and Frank went to the best College in the world.. Helps a ton..

 

 

WAR EAGLE

All for getting the Unit....but not for their asking price. The Sox can give up far less and aquire Hudson.....or just sing Clement/Perez...and AJ.

I really don't see Kenny wanting to make this deal.

 

I'm just speculating here, but a couple of weeks ago when Kenny said that RJ "won't pitch on the South Side", maybe it wasn't because RJ said he didn't want to play here but that this was the counter offer from the D-Backs and we said no f***ing way.

 

Then again, I'm a bad speculator. So take it for what its worth.

I have a feeling Marte is part of any package and to tell you the truth I feel he is very overrated. Didn't he blow over 50% of his save opportunities.

The acquisitions of Vizcaino and Hermanson make Marte available, thats for sure. I just hope Kenny is adamant about not giving up his boy Rowand.

Think we could pass off Willie as an outfielder? He has played there before.

Think we could pass off Willie as an outfielder?  He has played there before. 

 

Now thats thinking outside the box.