More dominos to fall?

[CanOfCorn]

I think you guys are way off. Harris is not going to be traded. Noone on the Sox has even seen Iguchi play yet. They have to sure of himbefore they can even think of trading Harris.

 

Also think about this, if Crede, Uribe or Iguchi goes down, who is going to fill in if Harris is gone. Just about all of the utility men and infielders are gone. Noone wants Aurilia. Larkin will probably retire unless someone promises him a starting job.

 

I say the Sox keep Harris and with good reason.

 

But as has been said earlier in this thread...Uribe can play 2B, SS and 3B, Crede can only play 3B, Harris: 2B and CF, Iguchi: 2b...where's the backup SS?

 

If Valdez is the backup, that's a lot of IF on the roster. It's a good problem to have, but I think Harris is going to have to be traded or released or sent down, if possible.

[YASNY]

if Willie was really a big distraction he would of been gone b4 this trade i think this supposed bad character that people make him out to be is getting kind of ridiculous.  Yeah him and Ozzie seemed at odds last year but hell Ozzie and Frank used to piss each other off so should we trade Frank away too?  And maybe Ozzie was just more dissapointed than mad at Willie.    Regardless Willie is a great bench player and good insurance if Iguchi falters unless you want to see robbie alomar or wilson valdez your starting 2B.

 

 

I don't know why the powers that be soured on Willie. But to compare a Willie Harris attitude problem to a Frank Thomas attitude problem is, well, nuts.

[Guest JimH]

I think you guys are way off. Harris is not going to be traded. Noone on the Sox has even seen Iguchi play yet. They have to sure of himbefore they can even think of trading Harris.

 

Also think about this, if Crede, Uribe or Iguchi goes down, who is going to fill in if Harris is gone. Just about all of the utility men and infielders are gone. Noone wants Aurilia. Larkin will probably retire unless someone promises him a starting job.

 

I say the Sox keep Harris and with good reason.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If Crede goes down, Uribe.

 

If Iguchi goes down, Uribe.

 

If Uribe goes down, it'll be someone the Sox acquire.

 

Are you somehow under the impression that Harris can play other IF positions? He can't.

 

BTW, Larkin is supposedly looking for a situation where he can start 90 games.

Another thing to consider, they wouldn't have signed Iguchi to those kinds of numbers if they weren't sure about him ... or to put it another way, sure that they don't like Harris.

 

I have no particular personal beef with Harris, although I do think there are some flaws there. My statements are based on White Sox personnel having issues with him. This Iguchi signing proves it.

 

Harris will be gone.

[Jabroni]

But as has been said earlier in this thread...Uribe can play 2B, SS and 3B, Crede can only play 3B, Harris: 2B and CF, Iguchi: 2b...where's the backup SS?

 

If Valdez is the backup, that's a lot of IF on the roster.  It's a good problem to have, but I think Harris is going to have to be traded or released or sent down, if possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hopefully, Pablo Ozuna has a huge Spring Training so we don't have to see Valdez. Ozuna is tearing it up in the Winter League.

[Guest JimH]

if Willie was really a big distraction he would of been gone b4 this trade i think this supposed bad character that people make him out to be is getting kind of ridiculous.  Yeah him and Ozzie seemed at odds last year but hell Ozzie and Frank used to piss each other off so should we trade Frank away too?  And maybe Ozzie was just more dissapointed than mad at Willie.    Regardless Willie is a great bench player and good insurance if Iguchi falters unless you want to see robbie alomar or wilson valdez your starting 2B.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Willie is a great bench player? Please.

 

He was horrible when he came off the bench year before last. He is a developing player, he needs consistent playing time. He won't get that here.

[GoodAsGould]

If Crede goes down, Uribe.

 

If Iguchi goes down, Uribe.

 

If Uribe goes down, it'll be someone the Sox acquire.

 

 

how is Uribe apposed to play 2B and SS if Iguchi goes down?

[Guest JimH]

how is Uribe apposed to play 2B and SS if Iguchi goes down?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Are you following the thread, I've stated what I believe will happen ... the Sox will bring in a proven guy who can competently play SS. Uribe can move over if there is a problem (injury) at another position.

 

Maybe it's Pablo Ozuna, as jabroni points out. He is certainly an option, but is not what I'd call proven. I'd like to see a more proven guy brought in but they could very well go with the better of Valdez and Ozuna.

 

Edit: the same reason IMO they will want more experience in the IF is the same reason they brought in El Duque. He is a known quantity.

[jackie hayes]

You're getting into this debate rather late.  There is a huge difference between Rowand and Harris that any educated Sox fan will be sure to point out.

 

With Harris, you have attitude problems and questions of desire.

 

With Rowand, you do not.

 

Harris has fallen out of grace with the Sox organization for a reason...something to chew on.

Cut out this "educated Sox fan" crap, just b/c someone doesn't agree w/ you. "attitude problems and questions of desire" = Ozzie doesn't like him. I just don't buy it. He's never been given a shot to prove himself, and he's been yo-yoed between 2nd and cf for 2 years. I haven't seen much of anything solid about Harris's attitude. Only this vague innuendo.

[CWSGuy406]

 

 

You honestly have me laughing out loud.  My sentiments exactly.

 

Clean out the locker son.

 

Addison --

 

Since you're so positive that Iguchi is sure to be the .300+/20+/70+ lock, what happens if he flops...?

 

EDIT: And ditto to jackiehayes' post...

[AddisonStSox]

Addison --

 

Since you're so positive that Iguchi is sure to be the .300+/20+/70+ lock, what happens if he flops...?

 

Woa......................who ever said that?

 

No offense Keith...but you are way off the mark with that one.

[Guest JimH]

I haven't seen much of anything solid about Harris's attitude.  Only this vague innuendo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Lots of innuendo though.

 

I don't think you will ever hear people associated with the team come out in a quote and say, "this guy Willie Harris ... he is not a good fit attitude-wise on this team. He's afraid to steal bases, he's inconsistent, but worst of all he walks around the clubhouse like he's big man on campus when in reality he hasn't proven a damn thing."

 

Guillen, Harrelson, Jackson, Dave Wills, John Rooney are all guys who have made some pretty strong negative observations about Harris. To me, that's a lot of smoke to have no fire.

 

As for an opportunity to prove himself, everybody always wants more of an opportunity. He did have a reasonable opportunity in 2004, and he did ok. My position all along is there are deeper issues than just his stats.

 

If there weren't, the Sox wouldn't have gone to all ends of the earth to find another 2B.

[Guest JimH]

Addison --

 

what happens if he flops...?

 

EDIT:  And ditto to jackiehayes' post...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Uribe

[CWSGuy406]

Woa......................who ever said that?

 

No offense Keith...but you are way off the mark with that one.

 

No, I'm not...

 

Through all of your Willie bashing, I haven't seen you once -- not once -- bring up the possibility that Iguchi may flop, which may very well happen.

 

 

You're hatred for Harris is absolutely pathetic, but that's JMHO.

 

Jim is at least objective with his dislike for Harris.

 

But whatever -- I'm not going to bring down the vibes from today, because it truely is a good day, as Kenny has assembled the best team since '94, and possibly better. I think that -- at the very least -- we can agree on.

[Chisoxfn]

Look for Graffy to be the final piece. I could see Graffy for one of the Sox AAA guys. Maybe a reliever like Baj could get the job done. But that would be my guess. Kenny and JR always liked him and he'd be a great asset off the bench.

 

I do think this could be the end of Willie, but I doubt it, because regardless he's good insurance at 2nd and CF.

[AddisonStSox]

Lots of innuendo though.

 

I don't think you will ever hear people associated with the team come out in a quote and say, "this guy Willie Harris ... he is not a good fit attitude-wise on this team.  He's afraid to steal bases, he's inconsistent, but worst of all he walks around the clubhouse like he's big man on campus when in reality he hasn't proven a damn thing."

 

Guillen, Harrelson, Jackson, Dave Wills, John Rooney are all guys who have made some pretty strong negative observations about Harris.  To me, that's a lot of smoke to have no fire.

 

As for an opportunity to prove himself, everybody always wants more of an opportunity.  He did have a reasonable opportunity in 2004, and he did ok.  My position all along is there are deeper issues than just his stats.

 

If there weren't, the Sox wouldn't have gone to all ends of the earth to find another 2B.

 

On that note. I'm going to exit the Harris debates for a while.

 

You hit nearly every point I was going to make in my next post. I couldn't agree with you more. I've responded to so many Rah-Rah Harris claims that I feel I have adequately backed myself up.

 

Thanks for your time. Go Sox.

 

EDIT: as for Keith...I never once addressed Iguchi flopping because this problem goes far beyond Iguchi. In fact, it has nothing to do with Iguchi. If Iguchi wasn't brought in, I still would have been calling for a trade. C'mon man. :banghead

[CWSGuy406]

Uribe

 

Ok...

 

But isn't Ozzie/Kenny's plans for pitching and defense?

 

Rich Aurilia has been absolute garbage the past four seasons (plus -- his defense isn't exactly what I'd call stellar) -- and Larkin, while above average with the stick, is fading with the glove a bit...

[CWSGuy406]

EDIT: as for Keith...I never once addressed Iguchi flopping because this problem goes far beyond Iguchi.  In fact, it has nothing to do with Iguchi.  If Iguchi wasn't brought in, I still would have been calling for a trade.  C'mon man. :banghead

 

That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

You were calling for the Sox to trade Harris for a minor leaguer, whatever they could get for him. If Iguchi wasn't brought in, was Valdez gonna start at second?

 

But, I guess anything is better than Harris, right? :rolly

[RockRaines]

Look for Graffy to be the final piece.  I could see Graffy for one of the Sox AAA guys.  Maybe a reliever like Baj could get the job done.  But that would be my guess.  Kenny and JR always liked him and he'd be a great asset off the bench.

 

I do think this could be the end of Willie, but I doubt it, because regardless he's good insurance at 2nd and CF.

 

I agree with this post for sure. TG could be a GREAT option, and willie, I think could be a good backup in the outfield as well.

[JoshPR]

Aurilia Sucks. Had one good Year. Rather give a shot to Valdez. If Larkin would be a backup i guess i would sign him even tho i don't like him

[jackie hayes]

Lots of innuendo though.

 

I don't think you will ever hear people associated with the team come out in a quote and say, "this guy Willie Harris ... he is not a good fit attitude-wise on this team.  He's afraid to steal bases, he's inconsistent, but worst of all he walks around the clubhouse like he's big man on campus when in reality he hasn't proven a damn thing."

 

Guillen, Harrelson, Jackson, Dave Wills, John Rooney are all guys who have made some pretty strong negative observations about Harris.  To me, that's a lot of smoke to have no fire.

 

As for an opportunity to prove himself, everybody always wants more of an opportunity.  He did have a reasonable opportunity in 2004, and he did ok.  My position all along is there are deeper issues than just his stats.

 

If there weren't, the Sox wouldn't have gone to all ends of the earth to find another 2B.

Not that much. Just that Ozzie likes to talk, so you hear a lot of it. The announcers tend to echo Sox management, so I just don't take too much from that (witness the sea change that occurred when Jimenez left -- from 'we don't see that at all' to 'worst teammate in the game').

 

If you look at the minor league reports, everyone praises his leadership and attitude. That's from both partial and impartial sources. And you didn't hear anything snide after the Sox got him, like you did w/ Jimenez leaving the Padres. So he's confident, why is that at ALL bad? He's never (as far as I've heard) said anything negative about his teammates, only positive things about himself. And he's never gone to the press complaining when he loses time or gets thrown into a different position.

 

So I will continue to see Harris as a model citizen as long as I see nothing solid behind all this talk.

[Guest JimH]

Ok...

 

But isn't Ozzie/Kenny's plans for pitching and defense?

 

Rich Aurilia has been absolute garbage the past four seasons (plus -- his defense isn't exactly what I'd call stellar) -- and Larkin, while above average with the stick, is fading with the glove a bit...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Keith, I agree on Aurilia. quickman thinks he can do the job as a reserve but I have my concerns. I prefer Larkin coming in for all the reasons stated above but it is pure spec on my part. IMO Uribe can get 75 or so starts at SS, spell at the other two IF spots, spell for late inning D when not starting. It's great depth to have. quickman thinks Larkin has a slow bat, my feeling is he has a lot to offer on the field, and off.

 

If a speedy pinch runner type is what Ozzie wants I believe you'll see Pablo Ozuna as the 25th man. Ozzie is familiar with both him and Valdez from the Marlins. I think they need to have a proven guy added to the IF mix, but I don't run the team and what I think means not a lot.

[JoshPR]

Say NO to No range iron Glove Graffy :puke

[YASNY]

Say NO to No range iron Glove Graffy :puke

 

Graffy was a clutch hitter off the bench. But, I don't think he's what we need. now. I'd rather give the utility job to a young guy for development purposes.

[AddisonStSox]

That really doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

You were calling for the Sox to trade Harris for a minor leaguer, whatever they could get for him.  If Iguchi wasn't brought in, was Valdez gonna start at second?

 

But, I guess anything is better than Harris, right?  :rolly

 

Ugh'. Back to work.

 

I wanted Vizquel. I wanted Cora. I wanted Cairo. I wanted Womack. I wanted Eckstein...pattern?

 

Someone was going to be brought in. It happens to be Iguchi. I anticipated someone coming in because of the comments about Willie coming from inside the Sox organization.

 

Wheter you want to admit it or not, the Sox have fingered Willie as an attitude problem. If Harris stays on the Sox, I want nothing more than for him to succeed and be a productive member of the Sox; however, I think it would better serve the Sox to trade him for something of value i.e. a gritty, veteran middlle infielder or some type of prospect. If they can't get the utility middle infielder via the Harris trade, try free agency. This goes beyond my "blind hatred" for Harris; it simply doesn't make sense to have him on the roster. We need a vet that can play multiple (at least two, hence, if either Uribe or Iguchi, hell, or Crede goes down, someone can step right in) infield positions and do so without having to go through some sort of learning process.

 

What more do you want from me?

[CWSGuy406]

Not that much.  Just that Ozzie likes to talk, so you hear a lot of it.  The announcers tend to echo Sox management, so I just don't take too much from that (witness the sea change that occurred when Jimenez left -- from 'we don't see that at all' to 'worst teammate in the game').

 

If you look at the minor league reports, everyone praises his leadership and attitude.  That's from both partial and impartial sources.  And you didn't hear anything snide after the Sox got him, like you did w/ Jimenez leaving the Padres.  So he's confident, why is that at ALL bad?  He's never (as far as I've heard) said anything negative about his teammates, only positive things about himself.  And he's never gone to the press complaining when he loses time or gets thrown into a different position.

 

So I will continue to see Harris as a model citizen as long as I see nothing solid behind all this talk.

 

Great post.

 

Jabroni -- was it you who posted a link to a Baltimore Oriole prospect website? Well, whoever did it, if you're reading this, can you post it again?

 

I remember reading -- as well as the things mentioned above -- that Harris was able to hit lefties as well as he hit righties.

 

I know this has nothing to do with the argument, but considering Harris has had less than 200 AB's against lefties -- and many people dislike Harris because of his inability to hit lefties, as well as his "attitude" problems -- I still believe we should give him a chance.

 

Keeping Harris on the bench isn't a bad thing.

 

BTW -- Timo Perez is such a waste on the roster as of now. If Harris is in AAA because that bum is on our roster... Ugh.