Willie Harris Article

[Soxbadger]

Steff,

 

Here is my question:

 

Did you get this information from Kenny, Ozzie, or Jerry, or from an intermediary source.

 

Because if it is not personal knowledge, than it is hearsay. There is a reason why hearsay is not considered reliable, and that is because you can not cross exam the one who has personal knowledge.

 

It is not that I do not believe you, it is just I have been told by some one with personal knowledge that they were very suprised when I said the Sox were upset with Willie, and were going to trade him. They also said that they really liked Willie.

 

Thus instead of relying on, what I do not personally know, I am referring to stats that every White Sox fan can get.

 

Ozzie seems to be unreasonably hard on Harris. Ozzies production his first few years, is comparable to Harris's, and Im pretty sure if Ozzie had been benched he would of spoke up, and not taken it well.

 

Daa84,

 

156 85 1.84

 

Thats ground balls, fly balls, gb/fb ratio.

 

Now look at Pods, our new lead off hitter:

 

243 167 1.46

 

Get used to watching more pop ups, because Harris is as big of a ground ball hitter as they come.

 

SB

[Steff]

I think it has more to do with how the TEAM is percieved by those outside of the organization. We don't want a reputation that we jerk players around, or say one thing in the press and then turn around and act completely different the next month.

 

 

Unfortunately, that perception has long been around and I doubt it will go away anytime soon.

[Jabroni]

The problem with Harris was that he was supposed to be a typical small ball player. Yeah, Harris is fast, but how many times last year did we see willie fail to get a bunt down? How many times did he steal a meaningful stolen base? sure he had 19 SBs, but they came at times when they didnt matter. Harris just isnt a good base stealer. also, he hit only 2 triples and 15 doubles. My biggest beef with harris over the past year was the amount he popped up. Hit the ball on teh ground and get your base hits. At any rate, what should the Sox get in return if they do trade harris? maybe urbina as has been rumored, or maybe they can package him with a prospect like sweeney and garland for a good #2 type starter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep, and how many times did we have to watch Willie hit a weak-ass dribbler to the 2nd baseman last season? :puke

[T R U]

I hope Willie beats him out in Spring Training

[quickman]

I think it has more to do with how the TEAM is percieved by those outside of the organization. We don't want a reputation that we jerk players around, or say one thing in the press and then turn around and act completely different the next month.

 

 

i am certain players take care of that. For instance the padres players said jimenez was the laziest player they ever saw. how long did we have this guy. A year. it takes care of itself. Dick allen was selfish, sosa is selfish, bonds is selfish. Players know who is playing and who is not.

[chisox2334]

Cassey Cassem long distance dedication from whitesox management to Willie Harris. The song entitled " Cry me a river" by Justin Timberlake. Willie Harris this is your long distance dedication.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

Badger, I agree with you. This article is really not that bad yet people are using it to bash Willie. Wanting a chance to compete with Iguchi isn't that bad, is it??? Or are people have such big hardons for Iguchi that they don't want to give him any competition?

 

I think Iguchi is really cool, just like the next guy, but if Harris produces better during Spring Training, he'd better be starting Opening Day.

[Wise Master Buehrle]

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 11:54 AM)

Yep, and how many times did we have to see Willie hit a weak-ass dribbler to the 2nd baseman? :puke

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And how many times while he was actually being played did he lead off the game with a hit?

 

Quite a few, by my memory.

[Soxbadger]

This is what I can not stand.

 

If your going to rest your argument on Willie is not a good "person", "team player", "ego maniac", etc, that is one thing.

 

But then in another post to start saying its because he did not perform, that is when you have to start relying on facts.

 

So far no one has even touched on the fact that Willie's production was almost exactly the same as Ozzies.

 

Lets look at another Ex-Sox coach:

 

Heres Joeys, first full season:

 

153 579 95 155 15 13 2 51 20 8 67 63 .268 .351 .349 202

 

Note how once again, sb's around 20, average around .270, and so on and so forth.

 

SB

[Steff]

Steff,

 

Here is my question:

 

Did you get this information from Kenny, Ozzie, or Jerry, or from an intermediary source.

 

Because if it is not personal knowledge, than it is hearsay. There is a reason why hearsay is not considered reliable, and that is because you can not cross exam the one who has personal knowledge.

 

It is not that I do not believe you, it is just I have been told by some one with personal knowledge that they were very suprised when I said the Sox were upset with Willie, and were going to trade him. They also said that they really liked Willie.

 

SB

 

 

Oz Jr, Rafael Santana, 3 current players (who I don't think would be appropriate to call out), Sidney Ponson, BJ Ryan, and with my own 2 eyes.

[quickman]

Badger, I agree with you. This article is really not that bad yet people are using it to bash Willie. Wanting a chance to compete with Iguchi isn't that bad, is it??? Or are people have such big hardons for Iguchi that they don't want to give him any competition?

 

I think Iguchi is really cool, just like the next guy, but if Harris produces better during Spring Training, he'd better be starting Opening Day.

 

 

i truly suspect that harris will be gone from spring training. Boers and bernstein will be tlaking about Willie in 3 minutes.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 11:52 AM)

Daa84,

 

156 85 1.84

 

Thats ground balls, fly balls, gb/fb ratio.

 

Now look at Pods, our new lead off hitter:

 

243 167 1.46

 

Get used to watching more pop ups, because Harris is as big of a ground ball hitter as they come.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where's did you get those stats? Podsednik's numbers aren't even close to what you posted, and neither are Harris'.

 

Harris 2004: 128 GO, 97 AO, 1.36

Podsednik 2004: 196 GO, 182 AO, 1.12

 

Podesednik has also said that last year he changed his swing to try and hit more homeruns.

[LosMediasBlancas]

You're right, but I think we can help it somewhat, or at least not make it worse.

Unfortunately, that perception has long been around and I doubt it will go away anytime soon.

[Jabroni]

I just caught the tail end but I think boers and bernstein are about to talk about the unhappy Willie Harris. THis should fuel the fire.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, turn on WSCR 670 The Score guys. Boers & Bernstein will be discussing Willie Harris' unhappiness next.

[Soxbadger]

Santo,

 

From espn,

 

Mine include hits as well as outs.

 

I believe yours only include outs.

 

I will provide links if you can not find it yourself.

 

SB

[Steff]

Cassey Cassem long distance dedication from whitesox management to Willie Harris. The song entitled " Cry me a river" by Justin Timberlake. Willie Harris this is your long distance dedication.

 

 

[Soxbadger]

Steff,

 

Okay I was told by some one who knows Walker...

 

Which would make sense as Ozzie is the most vocal hater of Harris, so I would suspect all in his camp dislike Harris.

 

Where as Walker was pre-Guillen.

 

SB

[quickman]

You're right, but I think we can help it somewhat, or at least not make it worse.

 

 

look half this board thought they were going to sign iguchi, I assume Willie did as well. We speculated it for a month.

[Guest JimH]

This is what I can not stand.

 

If your going to rest your argument on Willie is not a good "person", "team player", "ego maniac", etc, that is one thing.

 

But then in another post to start saying its because he did not perform, that is when you have to start relying on facts.

 

So far no one has even touched on the fact that Willie's production was almost exactly the same as Ozzies.

 

Lets look at another Ex-Sox coach:

 

Heres Joeys, first full season:

 

153  579 95  155  15 13 2 51  20  8  67  63  .268  .351  .349  202 

 

Note how once again, sb's around 20, average around .270, and so on and so forth.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'll give this one a shot.

 

What difference does it make how Willie's stats stack up with Ozzie or Cora? None, zero. It's totally irrelevant, it doesn't matter, except maybe on a message board.

 

Tony LaRussa couldn't compare his stats with anyone.

[Guest JimH]

Okay I was told by some one who knows Walker...

 

Which would make sense as Ozzie is the most vocal hater of Harris, so I would suspect all in his camp dislike Harris.

 

Where as Walker was pre-Guillen.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So, is this not hearsay as well?

[Steff]

You're right, but I think we can help it somewhat, or at least not make it worse.

 

 

 

The only way to help it is to win. I don't care if the Sox are thought to be the biggest assholes to their players.. if being an ass gets bad seeds out of here and a good chemistry is formed.. and they win. I say be the biggest a-hole you can be.

 

There's no crying in baseball.

[Iwritecode]

Rhetorical huh? Wow, there's a new one for me.

But if a point has been made to the contrary, that question becomes unnecessary. But it's good to see you not completely miss the point and that you don't need to resort to being a smartass to try to make one.

 

Let's say your read in a weekly publication at work that 'Steff will be a huge part of the company's plans for 2005'. Two weeks later, you find out that the company went out and hired someone with your same title and will be paying them a good salary.  I suppose your company has done nothing wrong and you wouldn't be upset or say anything to anyone about it?

 

They traded for Alomar twice and picked up Uribe to at least split time at second.

It seems to me that it was obvious to every one except Willie that they didn't think he could handle starting at 2B.

 

He's just now figuring this out and compaining about it in the paper???

 

Willie should take his que from Aaron. He never once complained about them trading for Kenny Lofton or putting Jose Valentin out there. He just kept his mouth shut and worked hard. Look where it has gotten him now...

[Soxbadger]

Jimh,

 

If the manager says Willie is not performing, and that same manager performed exactly the same way, you have to wonder if it is personal, as opposed to real criticism.

 

::shrugs::

 

I also specifically state in my post, I would be relying on hearsay, therefore instead of getting into a hearsay argument, I would rely on facts.

 

SB

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jan 27, 2005 -> 11:59 AM)

Santo,

 

From espn,

 

Mine include hits as well as outs.

 

I believe yours only include outs.

 

I will provide links if you can not find it yourself.

 

SB

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would make sense, but how come your FB total is less than mine? (I used mlb.com)

[LosMediasBlancas]

Do you think that kind of rep might keep certain talented players, who are not bad seeds, away from signing here also?

The only way to help it is to win. I don't care if the Sox are thought to be the biggest assholes to their players.. if being an ass gets bad seeds out of here and a good chemistry is formed.. and they win. I say be the biggest a-hole you can be.

 

There's no crying in baseball.