Ok so you are agreeing with me that they don't have anyone that can spot start and make a difference? Your like switzerland.

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If that's the case, you are like Swiss Miss.

 

I have said all along they need starting pitching depth. Not just on the big league staff but at AAA. Stack that squad with guys who are bouncing back or need a showcase.

 

As it stands right now, they had Grilli as insurance and now that's up in the air. I don't like Diaz for the simple reason he appears reluctant to throw inside and his stuff is straight as an arrow.

 

They need to bring in a few starting pitching candidates to camp, I recall having this convo with you a few weeks ago.

If that's the case, you are like Swiss Miss.

 

I have said all along they need starting pitching depth.  Not just on the big league staff but at AAA.  Stack that squad with guys who are bouncing back or need a showcase.

 

As it stands right now, they had Grilli as insurance and now that's up in the air.  I don't like Diaz for the simple reason he appears reluctant to throw inside and his stuff is straight as an arrow.

 

They need to bring in a few starting pitching candidates to camp, I recall having this convo with you a few weeks ago.

 

 

Well you pulled a quote and I thought you had a problem. It appears not. We are in complete agreement as usual

We are in complete agreement as usual

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Complete agreement as usual?

 

Who are you, and where did you hide quickman?

 

Ok so you are agreeing with me that they don't have anyone that can spot start and make a difference? Your like switzerland.

Why can't Hermanson spot start if needed?

Hermanson is definitely an option to spot start. Personally I like him right where he is, which is 8th inning bullpen with the occasional close opportunity.

 

Your point is definitely valid, one option is to have him spot start and bring somebody else up to fill a bullpen role.

 

Adkins is the closest thing they have to a rubber arm guy who can come in and pitch 4-5 innings if your starter gets torched ... and frankly I don't know if Adkins makes this team. If he does you've got 12 pitchers or only one lefty in the pen.

Why can't Hermanson spot start if needed? 

He can my point is we have nobody that will be effective. I am not down on hermansen but he has a role, and he needs to do that role. We are just not deep enough for starting pitching even in the minors. that was proved last year, and we didn't get better. In fact you can make a point that the closest thing we had to a fifth was just let go. I know there are many that like diaz but he isn't the answer if contraas or someone else goes down for two or three turns. That's my point. not that hermansen couldn't step in.

I strongly disagree. Both Vizcaino & Hermanson have enough starts under their belt to be spot starters in the event El-D goes down. I do not see major downtime coming from Marky B, Freddy G, Jose, or Jon.

 

If you don't want to go that route then you still have arms at AAA & AA who can step in & perform no worse than 04 (Cotts, Diaz, Grili, & Stew).

 

As for the bats, this might be the most balanced lineup the Sox have had in KW's tenure as GM. The easiest out right now figures to be Crede & we all have seen the good Crede & bad Crede. That means higher pitch counts & more stress on most pitchers in the AL when facing the '05 Sox. Those are the intangibles that can & usually do equal more wins. The more pressure you can put on a team the more likely they are to crack.

I strongly disagree.  Both Vizcaino & Hermanson have enough starts under their belt to be spot starters in the event El-D goes down.  I do not see major downtime coming from Marky B, Freddy G, Jose, or Jon.

 

If you don't want to go that route then you still have arms at AAA & AA who can step in & perform no worse than 04 (Cotts, Diaz, Grili, & Stew).

 

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I would love to see your crystal ball where it shows no down time from 4 starters, I like it

 

And of course you are right by naming Diaz and Stewart ... we don't know about Grilli although I suspect he will be here on a minor league deal. Ozzie wants Cotts in the pen.

 

Diaz and Stewart were torched for the most part, Grilli was all over the map with control. I think they will try to do better and take the same approach as last year when they tried to bring in guys like Person and Meche.

I strongly disagree.  Both Vizcaino & Hermanson have enough starts under their belt to be spot starters in the event El-D goes down.  I do not see major downtime coming from Marky B, Freddy G, Jose, or Jon.

 

If you don't want to go that route then you still have arms at AAA & AA who can step in & perform no worse than 04 (Cotts, Diaz, Grili, & Stew).

 

As for the bats, this might be the most balanced lineup the Sox have had in KW's tenure as GM.  The easiest out right now figures to be Crede & we all have seen the good Crede & bad Crede. That means higher pitch counts & more stress on most pitchers in the AL when facing the '05 Sox.  Those are the intangibles that can & usually do equal more wins.  The more pressure you can put on a team the more likely they are to crack.

 

 

Jugger, i agree we can do alot of things but being able to go to the minors would be the best answer rather than disrupting your best asset this year(the pen). The sox did not get better with there starting pitching in the minors. There is still time. Cotts needs confidence, diaz, is spotty at best. We jsut need an upgrade, because we simply can't develop guys fast enough.

I would love to see your crystal ball where it shows no down time from 4 starters, I like it 

 

And of course you are right by naming Diaz and Stewart ... we don't know about Grilli although I suspect he will be here on a minor league deal.  Ozzie wants Cotts in the pen.

 

Diaz and Stewart were torched for the most part, Grilli was all over the map with control.  I think they will try to do better and take the same approach as last year when they tried to bring in guys like Person and Meche.

 

 

Meche?

Let's play devils advocate ---

 

Lee>Podsednik

Maggs>Dye

 

That's making yourself worse with two acquisitions.

 

Let me remind you of some transactions that happened not too long ago...

 

Griffey>Cameron/Ichiro

A-Rod>Boone

Johnson>Garcia

 

Take into account Griffey was at the top of game at the time and Ichiro was unproven.

 

I am not saying that the White Sox are going to strike lighting in the bottle like Seattle, but it proves that speculating individual players greatness against each other doesn't prove anything.

 

Playing as a team does...

 

I am surprised Neyer hasn't learned this...

Meche?

 

 

as in Gil Mecheof the mariners?

On average there are usually 50 torch nights amongst a rotation. Starters numbers are always fascinating. A good rotation will produce betw 70-75 wins & 45-50 torch nights. That leaves only 37 bubble games. That's why no team can make it to the post-season w/out a solid bullpen. A bullpen needs to win 20-25 of the 37 to have a good shot. If your bullpen loses more than 15 gms kiss the post-season goodbye.

 

Here's what Neyer should have asked:

1) Do the Sox have a rotation capable of winning 70-75 games?

How do you answer this? You look at the number of starts they've had in the past 3 yrs where they have surrendered 3R or less. That usually equates to a win.

 

Numbers wise the Sox did not have that kind of rotation last year.

They do this year.

 

2) Do the Sox have a bullpen capable of winning 20-25 games?

They didn't last year but they did this year.

 

3) How much offense did they lose? Again about 2 doz runs & 2 doz rbi.

There is still plenty of power, but now there is plenty of pressure to go along with it. We essentially bartered 2 doz R, 2 doz RBI for 70SB. It should be exciting. Can't wait for the open of ST.

On average there are usually 50 torch nights amongst a rotation. Starters numbers are always fascinating.  A good rotation will produce betw 70-75 wins & 45-50 torch nights.  That leaves only 37 bubble games. That's why no team can make it to the post-season w/out a solid bullpen. A bullpen needs to win 20-25 of the 37 to have a good shot. If your bullpen loses more than 15 gms kiss the post-season goodbye.

 

Here's what Neyer should have asked:

1) Do the Sox have a rotation capable of winning 70-75 games?

How do you answer this?  You look at the number of starts they've had in the past 3 yrs where they have surrendered 3R or less.  That usually equates to a win. 

 

Numbers wise the Sox did not have that kind of rotation last year.

They do this year.

 

2) Do the Sox have a bullpen capable of winning 20-25 games?

They didn't last year but they did this year.

 

3) How much offense did they lose?  Again about 2 doz runs & 2 doz rbi.

There is still plenty of power, but now there is plenty of pressure to go along with it.  We essentially bartered 2 doz R, 2 doz RBI for 70SB.  It should be exciting.  Can't wait for the open of ST.

 

 

There is a new show on TV called Numbers. You would love it.Its all about numbers. Right up your alley.

There is a new show on TV called Numbers. You would love it.Its all about numbers. Right up your alley.

 

Oh he knows. It's his biography.

The other thing that pisses me off with these so called analysts is their total lack of respect for Garcia. Anybody remember back to last summer?

Garcia was so hot the Boss even went as far as to call Olivo a sure-fire future all-star.

 

Every team that made it into the post-season was hot on the trail for Garcia. Does Neyer factor in another 15 Garcia starts? No. He completely ignores him.

 

This really pisses me off. Why didn't he just make a simple table?

Garcia vs E-LO : big improvement

El-D vs Schow : Health essentially the same, big improvement

Contreras vs Jon : even

Jon vs AAAA : big improvement

 

3/5ths improvement in rotation

 

Hermason vs MJ : big improvement

Vizcaino vs Diaz : big improvement

 

2/6ths improvement in the pen

 

Dye vs Maggs : If you just pencil in 300/30/100 for Maggs you're a fool.

There are more players that decline after major knee surgery than there are those who improve or maintain their career avgs. Dye is healthier than he has been in 3 yrs. If you're a betting man on who will produce more the odds are in Dye's favor.

 

Lee vs Pods: This is the most noticeable decline but it is no worse than the Cub losing Alou. You can do a lot worse than losing your most productive hitter for the games best base runner.

 

Uribe vs Val: Improvement

Iguchi vs Harris: Improvement

AJP vs Burke+Alomar: Improvement

 

3/9ths improvement in the lineup.

 

If there are 20 teams with more improvement than that I sure would like to no who they are

 

Seriously, the glass is not full. It's only 1/2 full. We are likely to start off '05 w/out Thomas on the DL. Thomas was a big part of the offense for the 1st 1/2 last year. In some ways that's a good thing. The Sox will have to fight hard to win w/out Thomas. If they fail to do that then Thomas return will likely help them compete but they will fall short. But if they succeed then Thomas will be like an acceleration kick & this team will be tailor made for the post-season.

as in Gil Mecheof the mariners?

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No ... no ... no. Right Gil, wrong pew. Meant Heredia. The ex Oakland guy who went down to Mexico or may have just hung it up by now.

 

Meche, would love him, that won't happen.

No ... no ... no.  Right Gil, wrong pew.  Meant Heredia.  The ex Oakland guy who went down to Mexico or may have just hung it up by now.

 

Meche, would love him, that won't happen.

Wait, wait, you mean Felix Heredia?

 

Gil Heredia, beat out by Loaiza..those were the days...

Why is anyone surprised by this?? If you're not the Yanks, Sawks or for some reason the Scrubs... ESPN doesn't see much positive with them.

Let me remind you of some transactions that happened not too long ago...

 

Griffey>Cameron/Ichiro

A-Rod>Boone

Johnson>Garcia

 

Take into account Griffey was at the top of game at the time and Ichiro was unproven.

 

I am not saying that the White Sox are going to strike lighting in the bottle like Seattle, but it proves that speculating individual players greatness against each other doesn't prove anything.

 

Playing as a team does...

 

I am surprised Neyer hasn't learned this...

Cant argue with that

I strongly disagree.  Both Vizcaino & Hermanson have enough starts under their belt to be spot starters in the event El-D goes down.  I do not see major downtime coming from Marky B, Freddy G, Jose, or Jon.

 

If you don't want to go that route then you still have arms at AAA & AA who can step in & perform no worse than 04 (Cotts, Diaz, Grili, & Stew).

 

As for the bats, this might be the most balanced lineup the Sox have had in KW's tenure as GM.  The easiest out right now figures to be Crede & we all have seen the good Crede & bad Crede. That means higher pitch counts & more stress on most pitchers in the AL when facing the '05 Sox.  Those are the intangibles that can & usually do equal more wins.  The more pressure you can put on a team the more likely they are to crack.

 

You sure you mean vizcaino? He has never started a game. He is a one inning pitcher and that is about it.

you got to remember that Podsednik isn't replacing Lee, he's really replacing Harris. the low .300 OBP is bad, but the 70 steals is good, and he'll score some runs. I'm optimistic about Everett, they say he's in great shape and Dye should be healed. losing Jose Valentin is the biggest addition by subtraction there ever was. seriously, he was a low .200s hitter that couldn't field and hit 30 HRs in a home run park.

Wow Greasey, you might have the best avator on Soxtalk, LOVE IT.

 

Ha thanks Tony. I just figured out how to do simple animation on photoshop. I stole the current Sox logo avatar button from Yahoo. However, I can take credit for the others.

No ... no ... no.  Right Gil, wrong pew.  Meant Heredia.  The ex Oakland guy who went down to Mexico or may have just hung it up by now.

 

Meche, would love him, that won't happen.

 

 

You said meche not Heredia. Get your story straight. Hard to keep up with your ever changing mood.

Ok so you are agreeing with me that they don't have anyone that can spot start and make a difference? Your like switzerland.

 

Quick, I know I'm a little late on this -- and I'm pretty sure you'll disagree on this with me, but I'm pretty confident that Diaz can fill in for a short period of time and spot start.

 

He's proven everything he can at AAA, he's right on the edge as far as becoming a fifth starter in the MLB.